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Re: Performance chip for C9

Reply #25 –
Yahoo Message Number: 92591
? "Horse's mouth' was a figure of speech. The statement came from their publications. They did not use the term 'drive' or 'driven' but only discussion about speed of the two sets of vanes. They also made the statement that with their current design the torque converter could up to double the torque of the engine under certain conditions. Their explanation made sense to me but then so did their explanation of lockup.
I did some research and reported what I found. At this point I am only the messenger and no longer wish to be a target for shooting by anyone. If the publications are wrong then so be it. I still feel that Dan's findings could be true if he was operating in 5th speed and the torque converter was not locked regardless of how impossible you and others feel that situation might be. His empirical data is not complete enough for me to carry on any further discussion probably much to everyone's relief. Thanks for your input.

Don Seager

Re: Performance chip for C9

Reply #26 –
Yahoo Message Number: 92594
Don,

I was not trying to shoot at anyone. I was trying to provide correct info. Even in cars today most transmissions go into lock up from 2nd gear up. It is a more efficient transmission of power.
All torque converters are used to multiply torque, hence the name. They have a drive taurus (sp) and a driven taurus. In between them is a stator with a one way clutch or sprag that locks when the drive is faster than the driven. This is what multiplies the torque, Once the unit is rolling with today's engines and their torque curves the stator function is not used above 1st gear. It is used for initial acceleration, it acts like a manual clutch to a degree.
If you drive your car, assuming it is not a CVT you can feel 1st converter, then 2nd 2nd lockup and so on. Count the shifts, you should feel it. A gear change is usually about 300 to 400 rpm change and converter lockup is usually about 200 rpms.

Mikee

Re: Performance chip for C9

Reply #27 –
Yahoo Message Number: 92595
The limitation on HP in an RV is cooling capacity. I have seen on Cat web pages that the C9 can be rated as high as 600hp - in boats which have a virtually unlimited cooling system.
Adding HP will burn more fuel and not increase economy. All aftermarket chips I am aware of add more fuel to increase performance. If an exhaust temp gauge isn't installed (and used) engine damage is more likely because the cooling system is not sized to absorb the added heat.
I was told by a Cat engineer at an FMCA show some years ago the pollution controlled C9 uses three fuel injections for each combustion cycle: one before, one during and one after ignition. This apparently increases fuel burning but not necessarily produce more usable power. I have always wondered if the ECM could be reprogrammed to eliminate the unneeded injections (if that is even a true statement) yielding an increase in economy.
Also important is that modern diesels use more fuel because they make more power which we as drivers tend to use. It isn't all lost to pollution control devices. Drive like there is a raw egg on the throttle pedal and your economy will improve significantly. Don't know about everyone else but I can't do that so I just drive, enjoy the ride and accept the real world fuel use of 6-7 mpg.

Bob

2005 Inspire 51178

Re: Performance chip for C9

Reply #28 –
Yahoo Message Number: 92596
A bigger factor in boat HP is the lack of emission controls and standards. They do not have tailpipe emission standards like land engines. So they can pout the fuel to it and make HP. Now, the cooling system is usually designed for a specific HP and torque regardless of engine size. So increasing the HP or torque can result in temperature issues.
Smaller radiators cost less, so manufacturers use the correct size for the hp of the engine. Increasing the HP and you become a test pilot.... Usually when you need the HP (hills, etc) you will be temp limited.

Mikee

Re: Performance chip for C9

Reply #29 –
Yahoo Message Number: 92597
Bob this has to be the most honest answer I have seen on MPG! "Don't know about everyone else but I can't do that so I just drive,&;enjoy the ride and accept the real world fuel use of 6-7 mpg" thank you.

Ray O'Connell

They say wine improves with age! As I enter my golden years, I say age improves with wine! The Born Loser

Re: Performance chip for C9

Reply #30 –
Yahoo Message Number: 92598
I have been surprised by how fast temps come down when the fan goes to high. It will drop temps from 208 to 199 in seconds even when still climbing. That suggests (to the extreme engineering genius in me) that the cooling system is fairly robust when operating properly.
Mikee, does the restricted OEM muffler have anything to do with engine temps?

Dan 2006 Allure 31348 C-9

Re: Performance chip for C9

Reply #31 –
Yahoo Message Number: 92610
The thermostat controls engine temp more than anything else. Engines have a designed back pressure spec. This is done for a lot of reasons, engine temps is not one of them.

Mikee
 

Re: Performance chip for C9

Reply #34 –
Yahoo Message Number: 92650
Perhaps the mileage increase claim was a typo, as I suspect is the 30-ton Country Coach he claims to have produced this remarkable increase with. Wow, even 6mpg would be awesome for a 60,000 lbs vehicle with a little (in comparison) C9.

Bob Handren

05 Inspire 51178