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Topic: 04 Allure 8.25 rims with 12R22.5 - 315/80R22.5 or 275/80R22.5  (Read 4028 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: 04 Allure 8.25 rims with 12R22.5 - 315/80R22.5 or 275/80R22.5 -

Reply #25
Yahoo Message Number: 103232
I wanted to close the loop back on what we ended up doing.

I received a few PM's and emails from members of various boards (Much appreciated!), in regards to going to 315/80 22.5 on the steers. Many with heavier coaches then our Allure, have done so, and it has worked well for them. Some, with SOB coaches, were all ready exceeding the axle weight of their front ends, so moving up to a beefier tire was warranted or sure.

But, I also received input over my concern/comments about the harsher ride we've experienced over the last now 5 3/4 years with the Michelin XZE* tires, especially on the front end over expansion joints, and minor bumps and surface cracks. (Reminder that the "*" on the XZE is for even more meat and thicker, thus stiffer, sidewalls then normal XZE, which were all ready built to protect from curb scrubbing.) The major thrust of the input, is by going to the XZA2's with Load Range L vs Load Range H, along with he 8.25 mounted 'slightly squished' sidewalls - I would most likely again be experiencing as harsh a ride as with the XZE*'s.

I'm now in the Northwest, and started making a calls on tires. The short of it is that buying 6 more BF Goodrich ST230's via FMCA would have been the most economical way to go. However, I also received input recommending I look into getting one the newer Energy Efficient (Low Rolling Resistant) tires. After much research, I've ordered in 6 Bridgestone R268 Escopia's. Michelin has a neat comparison site, when you can find it (Search for Michelin and Rolling Resistant Comparison.), that when i use the standard XZE (the 12r tire available to me from Michelin) as the main tire to compare to, shows the Bridgestone R268's to be 6% more efficient then the XZE.

Another factor is my preference to run with Tier 1 tires. The BF Goodrich are a fine, but aging, Tier 2 tire. This helped me spend the extra money for the more expensive Bridgestones over the BF Goodrich tires. (Again, happy with my Michelin performance, did what I wanted them to do. And now with 3K on the ST230, have no negatives to report, and a positive on a softer front end ride then the Michelin XZE*'s. So sure not knocking these tires. But, the BF Goodrich are not in the same league as the Michelin and this specific Bridgestone - Michelin specifically targeted them to the Tier 2 level, and they compete very well in that grouping of tires.)

I'll move the BF Goodrich ST230's to the tag, and mount the Bridgestone R260 Escopia's to Steer and Drives, to maximize the lower rolling resistance.

And, once they installed in late October (Coming into Junction City, OR from Southern California warehouse, and we'll not be able to get them mounted until then.), I'll be able to see if I can detect any difference in front end ride over the ST230's. (Tire gent at Bob Dickman's I talked too, said he would be surprised if I noted any difference at all. Yes over the XZE* with the stiffer sidewalls, but he felt the ride would be very similar between the R268 and the ST230 - we'll see:)!)

And, I only repudiated my post, as it could help others when researching tires and specifically upsizing on 8.25 rims in the future. For a heavier based front end coach, my thinking would be to pony up the funds for a pair of 9" rims, at the same time as upsizing to larger size tires.

Best to all, be safe, have fun,

Smitty

04 Allure 40', Tag, Two Slide, High Cascade
04 Allure Sold to a nice new owner! Now enjoying a 07 Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600 #6775
"We're ONDROAD for THEJRNY!" (Toad and Coach license plates, say Hi if you see us!)

Re: 04 Allure 8.25 rims with 12R22.5 - 315/80R22.5 or 275/80R22.5 -

Reply #26
Yahoo Message Number: 103476
This is follow up post, another one:)! To correct some bad info I provided, in case anyone reads this in the future.

I've been using the Michelin Rolling Resistance comparison site as part of my tire selection process. I misread the way this site works, and have now found out that the Bridgestone Escopia R283's have a lower rolling resistance then the  R268's. This is use the Michelin XZE as the baseline tire to compare against.

Both the R268's and R283's are Tier 1 tires, and both work well on RV's. Between the two, the R283's will provide a better 'chance' of helping MPG. Reality is these big beasts we drive punching thru the air, are the main contributor/impact to MPG. But, if anyone is looking at tires rolling resistance for the ultimate addition to the equation on MPG, the R283's are better then the R268's. Both of which, are better then the old tried and true R250's that have served many an RV'er well.

Not sure what I'm going to do now. The tire company ordered the R268's for me, and had them shipped in from Southern California to Oregon. They would want to charge for shipping. I've asked them to check into selling them to someone for local usage, and I committed to purchasing the tires from them, whatever I go with. (The R283's are not averrable, and would take a bit too long to get here while we're in the area. We're coming back up in late January or February, so will work with them to choose a tire and get it in buy then. May just go back to the adding 6 more BF Goodirch ST230's, to match the ones on the steers. They are no longer considered Tier 1 tires, but have a good reputation, and are supposedly on the upper end of the Tier 2 spectrum of tires. Have liked the way the steers feel so far. And, they do have actually better rolling resistance then both the R268's and R283's, so that is a plus too...)

Luckily my remaining 6 Michelin XZE*'s are just coming up on 6 years old, and were looked over by TCI when we moved things around to replaced the damaged ones - so, waiting 3-4 months I feel is still safe.

My main reason for this post, was to correct the bad info I provided between the R268's and R283's. My apology if this was an impact to anyone!

Best to all,

Smitty

04 Allure 31017
04 Allure Sold to a nice new owner! Now enjoying a 07 Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600 #6775
"We're ONDROAD for THEJRNY!" (Toad and Coach license plates, say Hi if you see us!)

04 Allure 8.25 rims with 12R22.5 - 315/80R22.5 or 275/80R22.5 -

Reply #27
Yahoo Message Number: 102181
I just replaced my eight-year-old Firestone FS560 12R22.5 drive and tag tires. No cracking, no bulges, probably 1/2 tread left. Held air like a champ. They produced a smooth, quiet ride. I replaced them based on age. I would have bought them again but I got a better deal on the Bridgestones I replaced them with.

The front tires are 315/80R22.5 Firestone FS400s which are about five years old. Again, no cracking, no bulging, plenty of tread left. Smooth, quiet ride. They, too, hold air pressure well. I will absolutely consider Firestones as replacements when the time comes.

Tim Gerrity

2002 Magna #6081

Re: 04 Allure 8.25 rims with 12R22.5 - 315/80R22.5 or 275/80R22.5 -

Reply #28
Yahoo Message Number: 102184
Thanks for the info sharing, and of course, this is sometimes is like asking Chevy of Ford, or Dino or Syn:)!

Stan - Specifically on mixing the tires. I've always been int he school that wants all the tires to be the same, on automobiles. That being said, Country Coach used to sale some years and models of coaches, with the fronts being one size, the drives being another, and the tag's being the same as the front. So mixing is probably ok with the Inspire.

I'd of course keep all tires on the same axle the same.

As I mentioned, I'm thinking I'll replace my two fronts with a different size the the 12R's, the mentioned 315/80R 22.5. 12R's have a limited number of tires available to choose from. So until I replace the back 6 tires, I'll be running with 12R's with he 315/80R on the front.

Many of the newer 40-42' foot Tiffens and Winnebagos are coming stock with Michelin XZA3 275/80R 22.5 tires. Looking at the tire chart inflation chart, they have the same capacity as the XZE. I'm wondering if anyone has every gone from a 12R to the 275/80R? And, if the computer can be adjusted for that size tire?

Hard to find info on any real differences between the XZA2 and the XZA3's.

Good chance I'll go KISS, and retain the 12R's on the drives and tags when I replace them.

Best to all,

Smitty
04 Allure Sold to a nice new owner! Now enjoying a 07 Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600 #6775
"We're ONDROAD for THEJRNY!" (Toad and Coach license plates, say Hi if you see us!)

Re: 04 Allure 8.25 rims with 12R22.5 - 315/80R22.5 or 275/80R22.5 -

Reply #29
Yahoo Message Number: 102185
Eight years old?? Do you have a death wish? D Jean
CC81072

Re: 04 Allure 8.25 rims with 12R22.5 - 315/80R22.5 or 275/80R22.5 -

Reply #30
Yahoo Message Number: 102186
Sorry - forgot to post the Warranty on Continental.

HSL1 up to 7 years, without any exclusion for cracking, and when I asked the dealer, they specially said it was covered.

http://www.continental-truck.com/www/download/transport_us_en/general/tech_info/hidden_index_en/download/warranty_en.pdf

Best,

Smitty

(I should note, that I remain open to other tires and other sizes. Especially for the steers, which on our coach, is not too heavy of a load:)!)
04 Allure Sold to a nice new owner! Now enjoying a 07 Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600 #6775
"We're ONDROAD for THEJRNY!" (Toad and Coach license plates, say Hi if you see us!)

Re: 04 Allure 8.25 rims with 12R22.5 - 315/80R22.5 or 275/80R22.5 -

Reply #31
Yahoo Message Number: 102187
The 275 R 80 is only rated  just above 6000 lbs where the 12 r is right at 7300 lbs and thats quite a difference.    Your front axle is rated over 14,000 lbs so the the 275 R 80 falls way short.    Another thing to consider is tire clearance.  I know on 04 Intrigues there is enough clearance for a 315 on the duals and tags if you have the ISL engine, but if you have the Cat C-12 with different dual axle and different tags there is not.

When foretravel was having tire issues way back when with the XZA2 in the 275 R 80 size they changed to the XZA3.  They were designed for longer life expectancy  and as I remember the Foretravel owners were very happy with the new tire.  For a while replacements were only available in Canada, but that issue was soon corrected.  As for ride quality the Continentals are a little noisier that certain Michelins in the same size because of the tread pattern, so it depends on your choice of Michelin.  The  Michelins are smoother riding and I was told because Michelin uses more natural rubber in the side walls and different side wall materials than the Continental.   

TWI 2004 Intrigue 11731

Re: 04 Allure 8.25 rims with 12R22.5 - 315/80R22.5 or 275/80R22.5 -

Reply #32
Yahoo Message Number: 102189
Thanks Cmarshall - Good info sharing, especially on how the Foretravel gang accepted the XZA3's.

I see to load ratings for these, a G and a H. The H is related fro single up to 7,160 lbs at 120PSI. I suspect the 120PSI would defeat the desire for a bit softer ride up front:)! But, as my actual weight, from fully loaded four corner weighting, would allow 110PSI (and that is with an added 5PSI safety margin). I feel the H load rated tire would be safe up front.

Still will probably go with he 315/80R 22.5, and on the 8.25 rim, adjust per Michelins table specifically for this application on 8.25 rims. But, the XZA3 vs older designed XZA2 is tempting:)!

No decision made yet. I'll be going into a TCI Tire Center on Tuesday for their perspective and advise on my two tires with 'bumps'. Again, will probably take the conservative approach that 5 1/2 year old tires, with signs of road damage, are not worth the gamble to drive on very far... I think both of the damage to these tires took place in California. Never noticed the Tag tire 'bump' until just a few days back. The Dual Outer tire 'bump' was noted in the Reno/Sparks are around 4th of July. And based upon my daily observation, and while stopping during the day, no signs of any later growth. But, it is most likely a damage tire, and thus more subject to failure. So probably time to anti up the funds to replace those two... A blow out, can cost us quite a bit more in funds, and possibly health!

So a decision coming up soon:)!
Best to all,

Smitty

04 Allure 31017
04 Allure Sold to a nice new owner! Now enjoying a 07 Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600 #6775
"We're ONDROAD for THEJRNY!" (Toad and Coach license plates, say Hi if you see us!)

Re: 04 Allure 8.25 rims with 12R22.5 - 315/80R22.5 or 275/80R22.5 -

Reply #33
Yahoo Message Number: 103484
What is a Tier 1 or Tier 2 tire?  I have never heard of this terminology.
Is it a new standard or have I just not been paying attention?

Jim Hedlund

2000 Allure 30413

Re: 04 Allure 8.25 rims with 12R22.5 - 315/80R22.5 or 275/80R22.5 -

Reply #34
Yahoo Message Number: 103485
This blog about RV tires explains what tier 1 tires are.  Many well written articles about tire tech and safety are posted on this site!

http://www.rvtiresafety.com

John Coleman

02 Intrigue 11461

Re: 04 Allure 8.25 rims with 12R22.5 - 315/80R22.5 or 275/80R22.5 -

Reply #35
Yahoo Message Number: 103487
Tier One is made up of the major tire companies' premium brands. "They carry the highest price tags and have the highest profit margins for the manufacturers." Examples: Bridgestone, Goodyear and Michelin.

The Tier rating seems to imply ranking in price and volume, which is easily measureable by tire dealers.

Quality does not appear to be a criteria.

Dean

95 Magna 5280

 

Re: 04 Allure 8.25 rims with 12R22.5 - 315/80R22.5 or 275/80R22.5 -

Reply #36
Yahoo Message Number: 103500
On tire Tier's. Appreciated adding the link to Tireman9's site/blog, I respect his work and his info sharing. He helped me determine that my tire chords had broken on one tire, and were damaged on another, just via pictures. A straight shooter.

And I think Dean makes a very valid point about the 'quality' of tire not seemingly to be in involved in the Tier'ing category. Tier 1, IMO, used to be the Big Three as mentioned, plus IMO, a better quality of tire in construction, quality control, and materials.

IMO today, the lines between the Tire Tiers have blurred greatly. A Tier 2 tire, can be as well built with as good of materials as a Tier 1 tire. They are all built to specific requirements in regards to obtaining their Load Ratings, and being able to sell in the US.

As mentioned, I have the BF Goodrich ST230 on our steers, and it is a fine tire.

The one thing I noted when researching tires, was that the Tier 1's that I was after, all seemed to have a bit more weight on them then the Tier 2's I was considering. Now, added weight can be because of specific design parameters between a tire. For example, our Michelin XZE*'s, with he "*" back then meaning extra sidewall beefiness to better handle the club scrubbing that can take place in commercial fleet usage, is a good example on why that 12R 22.5 tire would weight more then say our BF Goodrich ST230's.

IMO, Tier 2 and Tier 1 tires are going to provide a safe tire for RV application. It then comes down to other criteria that may or may not be important to a specific buyer. (Like lower rolling resistance is important to me. Lower noise, and a bit less stiff sidewall for the steers, for a more comfortable ride. These were important considerations to me, when shopping for these replacement shoes:)!).

And many here in the US, and in Canada, are reporting good results with some of the better quality Chinese tires too. (I know from my HiFi (Got Tubes?) hobby, that China can build a very good quality stereo component, with good quality components inside, and due to the much lower labor rates, at a great price. The same holds true for tires.) The problem, is knowing which 'brands of tires' from China are good:)!

Tires are one of the most important part of our RV traveling safety. Buy wisely! Save money elsewhere...

Best to all,

Smitty

04 Allure 31017
04 Allure Sold to a nice new owner! Now enjoying a 07 Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600 #6775
"We're ONDROAD for THEJRNY!" (Toad and Coach license plates, say Hi if you see us!)