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Electrical Outlets

Yahoo Message Number: 114451
On this coach, most of the wall receptacles are attached to the inverter. I need a couple of outlets that are not attached to the inverter for electrical heaters. I was going to install some new receptacles from the main AC panel, but in examining the existing receptacles I discovered all of those that go through the GFCI and are wired into the inverter have, rather unusually, two sets of Romex going to each of them.

I have not gotten my multimeter out yet to verify this theory, but it would appear to me that the way they have done this is by installing separate Romex wiring from the inverter through the 20 amp breaker panel downstairs and the GFCI wall outlet to those Outlets that run off the inverter in addition to the Romex from the AC panel.

If this is the case, to achieve my purpose, can I not just disconnect (and cap off) the inverter Romex from the relevant wall receptacles I want not wired to the inverter, leaving the other Romex from the AC panel still attached? This would save a great deal of work.

Rich 2002 Magna

Re: Electrical Outlets

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 114457
This reply is based on my experience with the electrical outlets in our 2002 Country Coach Allure 36' which may or may not match your Magna.

Our circuit for the 120 volt receptacles starts with the breaker in the main breaker panel that feeds the inverter. From there it goes to the transfer switch in the inverter which decides whether the outlets are fed from the main breaker or the inverter. From there the circuit goes to the GFCI in the bedroom near the floor below the main breaker panel. From there the circuit is a long daisy chain with two daisy chain spurs. The main daisy chain goes from outlet to outlet starting in the rear of the coach and ending up at the front of the coach. there is a daisy chain spur feeding the outlets in the rear slide and another daisy chain spur feeding the outlets in the front slide.

By daisy chain I mean that the electricity arrives to feed an outlet, which is wired across the black and white pairs, and departs to carry electricity to the next outlet in the chain. If the chain is broken then none of the outlets beyond the break point will have electricity.

Each connection point in the daisy chain has some resistance which causes a drop in voltage at the next receptacle in the chain. I reduced the voltage drop by changing the way the wires are connected at each receptacle. The original installation when our coach was built was what is frequently called "back stab". The wires are simply pushed into the back of each receptacle where a blade catches the wire and serves as the contact point. I released each wire from the back stab, removed a little more insulation, and reattached the wire under the appropriate screw head. This provides a tighter connection with more surface area and thus less electrical resistance. Voltage at the last receptacle in the chain increased four volts after changing all the connection points from back stab to screw terminals. With 120 volts coming into the main breaker panel the voltage at the last receptacle in the chain, under load from an electric heater, was 105 volts before the changeover and 109 volts after the changeover.

Ernie, 2002 Allure 36' with Cummins 350

Re: Electrical Outlets

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 114458
Rich, on my older rig I used the circuit that went to the Refrigerator and the Basement Freezer for a non-inverter controlled outlet. This circuit did not go through the inverter.

Dean
95 Magna 5280

Re: Electrical Outlets

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 114461
Thanks all, that is very helpful. I realize that my idea is not going to work because all of those outlets are still going to go through the single 20 amp breaker for the inverter and the inverter transfer switch. I'm already using the washing machine outlet. I'm going to piggyback on the refrigerator outlet and run a second outlet directly from an unused breaker in the AC panel a foot or two to the wall near the existing GFCI outlet. On my coach BTW, all the wires are under screws not "backstabbed".

Rich 2002 Magna

Re: Electrical Outlets

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 114466
Rich

In my workamping days when we needed extra power to run an electric space heater we would run an extension cord from the 20 or 30 amp outlets commonly found on power stanchions into the coach. Many of us would install an additional recepticacle in the coach and run wire to a male recepticacle installed in one of the bays. This avoided having an unsitely chord running inside the coach. There are many ways to effect this concept that takes the additional load off of the coach's electrical system. As workampers in those days we often came into sites that only provided a 30 amp connection. The addition of a space heater combined with the rest of the normal load would constantly pop the stanchion breakers sometimes at all hours of the night. A real pain and this solved the problem. It is at least worth thinking about as it is realatively easy to install.

Don Seager
Former CC Owner

Re: Electrical Outlets

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 114467
Rich,

Our 03 Allure has only one 110 circuit for the many wall plugs running throughout the coach. We too had a problem with a popping circuit breaker. Ours was on the inverter. A work around I use is by using the 110 plug for the washer/dryer. It's a dedicated 20 amp circuit with its own breaker in the panel box. Works great for us since we don't have the washer/dryer.

Bill
03 Allure 32' Galley Slide.

Re: Electrical Outlets

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 114479
We did the Don Seager mod too. One of our favorite campgrounds was 30A but had a 20A also available at the pole. And mid 30's over night was common for the times of the year we would go. 12GA extension to the coach, and then we had one additional outlet below the fridge beside the LP detector in our coach. Romex fed from 12GA power. We'd use that outlet when running the heater, which we placed on our dinette table which was an easy non tripping wire feed away from the outlet.

Have not used it in over three years now due to travel changes, but always good to have it available if needed.

I too also screwed all of the stab connection feeds to our outlets. Not because I wanted to pick up more voltage at the longer runs, but because we had two outlets stopped working. So I just took the time to go thru them all.

Our next item on my to do list, is to add another receptacle below our kitchen cabinets, fed from the 20A feed to the convection/microwave. The DW likes to use a portable induction top we carry, and would like to retain her other two outlets kitchen outlets for other instruments of creativity. She says she'll manage not using the induction top along with the convection/microwave.

When I get into the mood to make that mod, I'll stay on that electrical theme of work, and run an outlet to our battery bay area for use of a dedicated battery charger. I have the Magnum MS2812 as well as a MidNite Classic150 Solar Controller feeding out battery bank and chassis for charging duty. They do an adequate job for sure. But I find the amp hour step down of the MS2812 in Absorb, to be lower then I want for my bank of X's 4 L16 Lifelines. So at times, I'd like to use a stand alone charger that I control the volts and amp feed for set period of time to avoid sulfate build up. Even the MS2812 Equalize/Condition runs step the amps down at a faster pace then i want to 'stir the batteries'. I'm going to feed the outlet to the battery bay from the same 20A that feeds the heater outlet under the fridge. So I'll need to plug in with my 12ga extension cord at times I want to use it. (Only a 20' extension cord, and at times that is not long enough to reach the battery bay, thus the reason for splicing into the existing junction box on the Driver side. Have a good path for the romex mapped out.

I always enjoy threads like this, as it's neat to hear the different ideas other owners have come up with:)!

Best to all, and a shoutout to Don Seager - hope the snow has not been too deep for you:)!

Smitty
04 Allure 31017
04 Allure Sold to a nice new owner! Now enjoying a 07 Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600 #6775
"We're ONDROAD for THEJRNY!" (Toad and Coach license plates, say Hi if you see us!)

Re: Electrical Outlets

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 114483
Hell no Smitty. I am a 'dyed in the wool' New Englandah by birth. Can't get to deep for me. The ice and mud gets a little old though. Ha ha

Don Seager
Former CC Owner

Re: Electrical Outlets

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 114485
I repurposed the 20 amp washer/dryer breaker by running a circuit from the breaker to an outlet mounted in the filter bay (last bay on passenger side). There I can use a very short jumper cord to power the block heater or a longer cord to power appliances when cooking outside.

-- Ernie, 2002 Allure 36'
 

Re: Electrical Outlets

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 114488
Done. I had an extra breaker in my AC panel. I ran Romex from that and put an outlet a few feet away next to the GFCI receptacle. I used the hole in the wall for the phone connection and a surface mount Outlet. For the second outlet, I piggybacked off of the refrigerator receptacle, ran down under the refrigerator and put a surface mount receptacle on the wall (on the Walnut paneling) next to one of the Hurricane vents near the dining room table. I changed the washer/dryer Outlet to a 20 amp duplex Outlet. Works great, helps to balance the loads and now my heaters don't go through the inverter and I can leave my inverter on without worrying about burning up a heater if the shore power fails, since I don't have a pure sine wave inverter.

Rich 2002 Magna