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solar panels

Yahoo Message Number: 12494
Any comments on the need for solar panels. Also if you have them or are thinking of them what kind and how many. What controller? What vendor? We will be at the factory Nov. 29 and 30 for our , hopefully, fixit list.
We had four panels on our previous 2 cc and they did not have enough capacity to keep up with the normal resting power needs.
John drebick 05 magna 6382

Re: solar panels

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 12495
Quote

Quote
Any comments on the need for solar panels. Also if you have them or are thinking of them what kind and how many. What controller? What vendor? We will be at the factory Nov. 29 and 30 for our , hopefully, fixit list.
http://www.phrannie.org/solar.html

Re: solar panels

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 12497
While in JC you might want to get in touch with AMSolar in Eugene. We have friends that had them install on their CC and the installation was excellent. www.amsolar.com
Don

'02 Intrigue #11427

Quote from: john drebick
> Any comments on the need for solar panels. Also if you have them
or are thinking of them what kind and how many. What controller? What vendor?

Quote
We will be at the factory Nov. 29 and 30 for our , hopefully, fixit

list.

Quote
>

We had four panels on our previous 2 cc and they did not have
enough capacity to keep up with the normal resting power needs.
'02 Intrigue #11427

Re: solar panels

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 12521
Hi John,

I have two 100 watt solar panels and a controller from Heliotrope PV (they are located in Eugene, OR). I had one of them installed when I took delivery at the factory last Nov. and the other installed May this year. Guaranty service dept. installed them for me. I do a fair amount of dry camping and the electrical needs are the most confusing part of owning an RV. It is difficult to determine how many solar panels are required. The two panels do not satisfy my electrical requirements. I still have to run my generator an 1 or 2 hour a day depending on how much I used the Inverter during the day.
I think Fred Kovol or other more electrically proficient folks on this board can explain how to determine solar panel requirements; it's a mystery to me.

Rick,

Fulltiming in a '04, 36' Allure, 31018

Re: solar panels

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 12533
Hi John,

Calculating solar panel needs can be a big job. It is so dependent on one's use. How will the panels be mounted, can they be tilted? Generally, five 125 watt panels will work. I like Northern Arizona Wind & Sun in Flagstaff for price and availability (www.windsun.com).
If you want exact needs, then I would need some information.
One thing to remember and I can't stress it enough - to get long life out of your batteries, never let the voltage get below 12.25 vdc (50%) and use a desulfator ($60-120) on each battery. Google: 'desulfator' - I like the Pulse Tech brand.
Fred Kovol

Quote from: surfsidebarney@a\.\.\.\[br\
] > Hi John,
> I have two 100 watt solar panels and a controller from Heliotrope PV

(they

Quote
are located in Eugene, OR). I had one of them installed when I took

delivery

Quote
at the factory last Nov. and the other installed May this year.

Guaranty

Quote
service dept. installed them for me. I do a fair amount of dry
camping and the

Quote
electrical needs are the most confusing part of owning an RV. It

is difficult

Quote
to determine how many solar panels are required. The two panels do

not

Quote
satisfy my electrical requirements. I still have to run my
generator an 1 or 2

Quote
hour a day depending on how much I used the Inverter during the

day.

Quote
>

I think Fred Kovol or other more electrically proficient folks on

this board

Quote
can explain how to determine solar panel requirements; it's a
mystery to me.

Re: solar panels

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 12651
John,

I also had panels installed by AM Solar in Eugene, OR. I'd highly recommend using them to anyone who's going to be in the vicinity of Eugene. They did a first class installation for us with premium parts at a very fair price. You will want to talk to Greg Holder or Dave Reuter.
www.amsolar.com / 541-284-2426

Our setup includes 4 panels (about 400W) with a Heliotrope HPV-22 MPPT controller. This seems to be just about the right size for us. Our batteries are typically fully recharged before noon. We rarely have to run the generator to recharge batteries.
I'd highly recommend getting an MPPT-type controller - I believe Solar Boost is another well-known brand. With the MPPT feature, I often see a 40% increase in amps going to the battery over whats coming out of the panels themselves. As I sit here the panel array output is 10.7 amps and the battery charging amps are 14.8 amps.

I'd also go for the panel tilt feature too. When the sun is low on the horizon (i.e., winter) it will double almost double the panel output - tilting does require getting up on the roof though, which may be an issue with the newer "ladderless" coaches.
--

Tom Harsch 2002 Allure #30791

Quote from: dons2346
While in JC you might want to get in touch with AMSolar in Eugene.

We

Quote
have friends that had them install on their CC and the installation > was excellent. www.amsolar.com

Don

'02 Intrigue #11427

[quote author=john drebick"

> Any comments on the need for solar panels. Also if you have them > or are thinking of them what kind and how many. What controller? > What vendor?

> We will be at the factory Nov. 29 and 30 for our , hopefully,

fixit

Re: solar panels

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 12661
Hi John,

I was interested in your installation until the second last paragraph where more amps are going into the battery than coming from the solar panels - maybe, just maybe, the readouts are reversed. The question I have for you is: what is your battery voltage after the bank is charged?
Fred Kovol

Re: solar panels

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 12662
Hi Tom (sorry John),

I was interested in your installation until the second last paragraph where more amps are going into the battery than coming from the solar panels - maybe, just maybe, the readouts are reversed. The question I have for you is: what is your battery voltage after the bank is charged?
Fred Kovol

Re: solar panels

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 12665
Fred:

The solar voltage would be about 18 volts with the battery getting 13.5. The controller is a low loss DC-DC converter. Much better then burning the watts in a series regulator or a voltage dropping resistor.

You should see the amp meters on a system that is set for 50 volt solar panels and a 24 volt battery plant It does give you a double take until you note the volt meters.

JimC

Re: solar panels

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 12675
Hi TBonne,

I looked at the sites - yes you can get more amps but really it's watts out of the solar panels minus a 5-10% loss in the controller (dc to dc converter in this case) equals watts available to recharge the battery bank. Watts and watt hours would be a better display. At the end of charging, a recharged battery bank health is determined by the open circuit (no trickle charge or load) voltage - something around 12.65 vdc = 100% for a well maintained battery.
Fred Kovol

Quote from: TBooneFisher

solar panels

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 18239
Am storing my CC Allure outside and had solar panel installed, can anyone tell me what the amp. of the panel should be to charge and maintain my batteries ?

Also Holland Motorhomes installed them and hooked them up to the hotwire from the fridg, but now when I turn-off all 12 volt storage> the panel charge controller does not light-up .
Any input or help??????????

Re: solar panels

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 18245
Let me describe my experience with solar on my '04 Allure #31038.

I have installed two 120 watt panels which charge through a SolarBoost 2000E MPPT controller. I live in B'ham AL where I store outside with no access to shore power but with good access to sunlight. My house battery bank is two 8D AGM with a single wet 8D for the chassis.

When the coach sits idle in the summer I turn off the refer and the LP detector. I leave the roof vents open for ventilation and the power on to allow the vents to close when it rains.

Under these circumstance, ignoring the solar contribution, the battery monitor shows a 4 amp parasitic draw. With the LP detector and refer on the draw is more like 6 amps.
On the positive side the solar contribution ranges from early moring and late afternoon of 3 amps to high noon full sun of 11 amps. This is less than I expected but, assuming properly calibrated electronics, the reality. In mid July at 8,000 feet in colorado at noon with full sun I saw 12 amps from the controller.

In the winter I leave the boiler on set to about 45 degress to prevent freeze up on the cold nights. I leave the vents closed but everything else is the same. I leave the gen start set to 50% and gen stop set to 90%. Over the course of a winter I will see perhaps 50 hours of gen run time mostly during cold cloudy spells. My first winter with the coach was without solar and the gen run time was about 130 hours.

I never go more than 2 or 3 weeks without using the coach in one way or another so none of this is much of a challenge for the on board systems. I find they all work together nearly seamlessly.
Sorry to run on so long but this stuff is interesting to me so I know it may be of interest to some of you. I'll be happy to answer questions on anything I left out in my description.

George in Birmingham, AL
'04 Allure 31038
George in Birmingham
2003 Magna 6298

Re: solar panels

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 18246
Without knowing the output capability of your panel, there is no way to tell you how many amps you have available to charge the batteries.
I can say that Holland did not do you any favors by hooking up the solar output to the refer. They took the cheap and easy way out and not the best. To get the most benefit from solar charging, the output should be hooked directly to the battery bank.

Don

'02 Intrigue #11427

Quote from: cniezingklazienaveen
> Am storing my CC Allure outside and had solar panel installed, can > anyone tell me what the amp. of the panel should be to charge and > maintain my batteries ?

Also Holland Motorhomes installed them and hooked them up to the > hotwire from the fridg, but now when I turn-off all 12 volt > storage> the panel charge controller does not light-up
working>.
'02 Intrigue #11427

Re: solar panels

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 18248
Quote
Let me describe my experience with solar on my '04 Allure #31038.

I have installed two 120 watt panels which charge through a > SolarBoost 2000E MPPT controller. I live in B'ham AL where I store > outside with no access to shore power but with good access to > sunlight. My house battery bank is two 8D AGM with a single wet 8D > for the chassis.
> When the coach sits idle in the summer I turn off the refer and the > LP detector. I leave the roof vents open for ventilation and the > power on to allow the vents to close when it rains.

Under these circumstance, ignoring the solar contribution, the > battery monitor shows a 4 amp parasitic draw. With the LP detector > and refer on the draw is more like 6 amps.
4 amps parasitic draw sounds like you are leaving your inverter on.
If so, do you need it?
Tom Fisher
Dallas, TX

Re: solar panels

Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 18249
Tom, nope to the inverter idea. In fact, if I turn the entertainment stuff off at the breaker panel, the inverter adds a load of less than an amp at idle.

I thought that 4 amps was a lot also. That is the way it has been since new and I do not suspect a short anywhere. While pupose of my note was to help the original poster with their question about solar capability, I welcome any suggestions anyone may have regarding the 4 amp load.

Thanks Tom.

George Sanders
'04 Allure 31038

Quote from: TBooneFisher
> > Let me describe my experience with solar on my '04 Allure #31038.
>

> I have installed two 120 watt panels which charge through a > > SolarBoost 2000E MPPT controller. I live in B'ham AL where I

store

Quote
outside with no access to shore power but with good access to > > sunlight. My house battery bank is two 8D AGM with a single wet

8D

Quote
for the chassis.
>

> When the coach sits idle in the summer I turn off the refer and

the

Quote
LP detector. I leave the roof vents open for ventilation and the > > power on to allow the vents to close when it rains.
>

> Under these circumstance, ignoring the solar contribution, the > > battery monitor shows a 4 amp parasitic draw. With the LP

detector

Quote
and refer on the draw is more like 6 amps.
>

4 amps parasitic draw sounds like you are leaving your inverter

on.
George in Birmingham
2003 Magna 6298

Re: solar panels

Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 18250
Quote
Tom, nope to the inverter idea. In fact, if I turn the entertainment > stuff off at the breaker panel, the inverter adds a load of less than > an amp at idle.
Why not just turn the inverter off since it's not needed. Less than an amp could represent as much as 10-20amp-hrs daily which could use up a significant proportion of what your solar is producing especially during cloudy periods.
Tom Fisher

Re: solar panels

Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 18253
Tom, what I meant by "nope" was that I do not have the inverter on. I agree with you that there is no value to leaving it on so I don't.

George Sanders
'04 Allure 31038

Quote from: TBooneFisher
> Tom, nope to the inverter idea. In fact, if I turn the
entertainment

Quote
stuff off at the breaker panel, the inverter adds a load of less

than

Quote
an amp at idle.
>

Why not just turn the inverter off since it's not needed. Less than > an amp could represent as much as 10-20amp-hrs daily which could > use up a significant proportion of what your solar is producing

especially
George in Birmingham
2003 Magna 6298

Re: solar panels

Reply #20 –
Yahoo Message Number: 18258
Quote
Tom, what I meant by "nope" was that I do not have the inverter on. I > agree with you that there is no value to leaving it on so I don't.
Given that, I'd make an effort to track down what is drawing that much current. There must be some awfully innefficient control circuitry somewhere since most such circuitry never draws over 25-50ma. Maybe you could pull fuses in your 12V fuse panel(s) until you find the culprit. Could there be a circulation pump etc in the heater system running?? I just know there's something running that's not necessary while in storage as control circuitry just doesn't need that much current.
Tom Fisher

Re: solar panels

Reply #21 –
Yahoo Message Number: 18263
The backup camera and related panasonic system draws power no matter what you turn off until you pull the fuse attached to the purple wire in the fuse area next to the batteries. I ran specific gravity on the batteries dropping for a week until the fuse was pulled. The wire number given by CC tech service was incorrect, the but the purple wire is the correct one regardless of number. Good luck. John 2002 Allure
#30702

Re: solar panels

Reply #22 –
Yahoo Message Number: 18345
Quote from: dons2346"\[br\
Hi Don\.\.\.\.\.\.\.\[br\] Thanks for getting me some info, my next question is, how hard is for\[br\] myself to correct the problem ,\[br\] do I just take the wire from the panel, via the chargfe controller\[br\] and hook it up to the battery\?\[br\]\[br\]\[br\]] > Without knowing the output capability of your panel, there is no

way

Quote
to tell you how many amps you have available to charge the

batteries.

Quote
I can say that Holland did not do you any favors by hooking up the > solar output to the refer. They took the cheap and easy way out and > not the best. To get the most benefit from solar charging, the

output

Quote
should be hooked directly to the battery bank.

Don

'02 Intrigue #11427

[quote author=cniezingklazienaveen" >]
> Am storing my CC Allure outside and had solar panel installed,

can
 

solar

Reply #23 –
Yahoo Message Number: 12553
Thanks for the very good responses on my request for info on installing panels on my 05 Magna.

John Drebick 05 magna 6382