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cat 13 cooling

Yahoo Message Number: 17075
We just purchased a NEW 2004 42' Intrigue Ovation. The Allison 4000 over heated and derated itself to 4th gear. CC proposes a "fix" with a different trans cooler, different fan and motor, new hydralic fluid lines, different radiator grill and new air intake, ducting and filter.
I am looking for owners of Magna and Intrigue chassis with the Cat 13 rated at 525 HP with Allison 4000 whether you have had trouble or not.
I understand there are over one hundred Magnas and over a dozen Intrigues affected. Only two have been modified. Ours will be number three.

Dr. Robert Green

2004 Intrigue Ovation
# 11845 we traded #11229
Dr. Bob

Re: cat 13 cooling

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 17077
Robert,

We have a 2004 CC Intrigue 42 with C13, ours is coach 11849. CC told me that we were amougst the first to have issues last July with the C13 overheating. I had the "upgrade" installed in November 04.

The previous symptoms would show a persistant rise in water (and trans) temperatures when pulling a grade. We saw water temps of 228- 230. The CC tech (Chris stationed at Beaudry RV) even rode in the coach a couple of times as we went up the 6% grade to Flagstaff in Arizona last summer. During the climb, the temperature never cooled off when the fan and thermostat kicked on full at about 204-208 degrees.

We have yet to really test it out on a hot summer grade, but the cooling change was dramatic. On the same grade that we saw 225-228 before the upgrade, we now see only about 208. When it hits 208, it immediately returns to about 190 and starts the cycle over again.
If you just got the coach, it would seem that the previous owner (or dealer) didn't get the upgrade installed. It affects all C13's from the beginning of us, about June 04 manufacture to sometime in Oct/Nov/Dec 04 best I can tell. That would be more coaches than you were informed about.

Good luck getting it resolved. Many of the dealers and the factory can do the upgrade.

Ron Rinfret

2004 Intrigue 42 11849

Quote from: joyce36526
We just purchased a NEW 2004 42' Intrigue Ovation. The Allison

4000

Quote
over heated and derated itself to 4th gear. CC proposes a "fix"

with a

Quote
different trans cooler, different fan and motor, new hydralic

fluid

Quote
lines, different radiator grill and new air intake, ducting and

filter.

Quote
>

I am looking for owners of Magna and Intrigue chassis with the Cat

13

Quote
rated at 525 HP with Allison 4000 whether you have had trouble or

not.

Quote
I understand there are over one hundred Magnas and over a dozen > Intrigues affected. Only two have been modified. Ours will be

number

Re: cat 13 cooling

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 17078
We had the retro done back in Feb at Lazy Days. I thought it was more for the engine than the tranmission, but it certainly helps both.

Major upgrade, lots of stuff done.
Drive home from FL to N IL, engine temp never got above 205 or so, and mostly in the 190's. Just one mountian road (Chattanooga), but ambient temps in the 90's.

Transmission did hit 246 (generated warning) sitting in backup caused by and accident, but just for short period.

John and Terry
Affinity #6453

Quote from: joyce36526
We just purchased a NEW 2004 42' Intrigue Ovation. The Allison 4000 > over heated and derated itself to 4th gear. CC proposes a "fix" with

a

Quote
different trans cooler, different fan and motor, new hydralic fluid > lines, different radiator grill and new air intake, ducting and

filter.

Quote
>

I am looking for owners of Magna and Intrigue chassis with the Cat 13 > rated at 525 HP with Allison 4000 whether you have had trouble or

not.

Re: cat 13 cooling

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 17082
We had our '05 Intrigue 42' Ovation upgraded in March at Beaudry RV by the Beaudry mechanic and one of the CC mechanics. We never had any overheating before the upgrade but we only drove in cold weather. The transmission temps hit 225 or so on the trip from WA to AZ in January. Since the upgrade I never see more than 216 on the tranny unless we get stuck in traffic and then I shift into neutral a lot and the temps stay down. Engine temps run up to about 210 max (long grade in hot weather) and then the fan kicks in and the temp drops to 192. Normal down the road driving, the engine will hit 204 and then drop to 192 then up to 204 and back to 192, etc. The MPG seems to have increased a little also since the new intake ducting was done. Our only beef was that the new intake is stainless steal instead of painted to match the coach. The radiator grill is the same they are putting on the new '06 Intrigue.

Bob

'05 Intrigue LE #11872

Quote from: joyce36526
We just purchased a NEW 2004 42' Intrigue Ovation. The Allison

4000

Quote
over heated and derated itself to 4th gear. CC proposes a "fix"

with a

Quote
different trans cooler, different fan and motor, new hydralic

fluid

Quote
lines, different radiator grill and new air intake, ducting and

filter.

Quote
>

I am looking for owners of Magna and Intrigue chassis with the Cat

13

Quote
rated at 525 HP with Allison 4000 whether you have had trouble or

not.

Quote
I understand there are over one hundred Magnas and over a dozen > Intrigues affected. Only two have been modified. Ours will be

number

Re: cat 13 cooling

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 17083
Bob,

Sounds like your data is very similar to mine. However, we did overheat 3 times with some pretty good coolant spray on the toad.

We leave Phoenix (111 degress today) for Santa Fe, New Mexico on Saturday. So hope to get a real good idea of the performance in hot (very hot) conditions on grade to 8000 feet or so.

I too have the stainless steel intake, wish it was painted but doesn't look all that bad with the silver/grey paint scheme we have.

Ron

Quote from: Bob Stephens
> We had our '05 Intrigue 42' Ovation upgraded in March at Beaudry

RV

Quote
by the Beaudry mechanic and one of the CC mechanics. We never had > any overheating before the upgrade but we only drove in cold > weather. The transmission temps hit 225 or so on the trip from WA > to AZ in January. Since the upgrade I never see more than 216 on > the tranny unless we get stuck in traffic and then I shift into > neutral a lot and the temps stay down. Engine temps run up to

about

Quote
210 max (long grade in hot weather) and then the fan kicks in and > the temp drops to 192. Normal down the road driving, the engine > will hit 204 and then drop to 192 then up to 204 and back to 192, > etc. The MPG seems to have increased a little also since the new > intake ducting was done. Our only beef was that the new intake is > stainless steal instead of painted to match the coach. The

radiator

Quote
grill is the same they are putting on the new '06 Intrigue.

Bob

'05 Intrigue LE #11872

[quote author=joyce36526"

> We just purchased a NEW 2004 42' Intrigue Ovation. The Allison > 4000

> over heated and derated itself to 4th gear. CC proposes a "fix" > with a

> different trans cooler, different fan and motor, new hydralic > fluid

> lines, different radiator grill and new air intake, ducting and > filter.
>

> I am looking for owners of Magna and Intrigue chassis with the

Cat

Quote
13

> rated at 525 HP with Allison 4000 whether you have had trouble

or

Re: cat 13 cooling

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 17084
It will be nice to hear how the cooling performs heading to Santa Fe. We haven't pulled any long hills in hot weather yet. We're headed back to Washington from Michigan the middle of July and will probably see some warm weather then. Before we do that though we have to get the dash air fixed as it stopped cooling on the way here. If its not one thing its another.
PS How well does your Jake brake perform. Ours doesn't seem to work any differently no matter which setting we use. It always seems like we are only getting two cylinders worth of braking.

Bob

Quote from: ron930cab

Bob,

Sounds like your data is very similar to mine. However, we did > overheat 3 times with some pretty good coolant spray on the toad.

We leave Phoenix (111 degress today) for Santa Fe, New Mexico on > Saturday. So hope to get a real good idea of the performance in

hot

Quote
(very hot) conditions on grade to 8000 feet or so.

I too have the stainless steel intake, wish it was painted but > doesn't look all that bad with the silver/grey paint scheme we

have.

Quote
Ron

[quote author=Bob Stephens"

> We had our '05 Intrigue 42' Ovation upgraded in March at Beaudry > RV

> by the Beaudry mechanic and one of the CC mechanics. We never

had

Quote
any overheating before the upgrade but we only drove in cold > > weather. The transmission temps hit 225 or so on the trip from

WA

Quote
to AZ in January. Since the upgrade I never see more than 216

on

Quote
the tranny unless we get stuck in traffic and then I shift into > > neutral a lot and the temps stay down. Engine temps run up to > about

> 210 max (long grade in hot weather) and then the fan kicks in

and

Quote
the temp drops to 192. Normal down the road driving, the

engine

Quote
will hit 204 and then drop to 192 then up to 204 and back to

192,

Quote
etc. The MPG seems to have increased a little also since the

new

Quote
intake ducting was done. Our only beef was that the new intake

is

Quote
stainless steal instead of painted to match the coach. The > radiator

> grill is the same they are putting on the new '06 Intrigue.
>
> Bob

> '05 Intrigue LE #11872
>
>
>
>
>

[quote author=joyce36526"
>]
> > We just purchased a NEW 2004 42' Intrigue Ovation. The Allison > > 4000

> > over heated and derated itself to 4th gear. CC proposes

a "fix"

Quote
with a

> > different trans cooler, different fan and motor, new hydralic > > fluid

> > lines, different radiator grill and new air intake, ducting

and

Quote
filter.
> >

> > I am looking for owners of Magna and Intrigue chassis with the > Cat
> 13

> > rated at 525 HP with Allison 4000 whether you have had trouble > or
> not.

> > I understand there are over one hundred Magnas and over a

dozen

Re: cat 13 cooling

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 17085
Bob

As to the jake brake, there was another post (not sure if it was you). I have driven the coach just enough to know how most things work, but not enough to know for sure how they behave. Mine seems to have 3 seperate braking "levels" which is how it is supposed to work as I understand it. Performance in the 3rd (highest) position thrusts you forward in the seat so I go from position to position to minimize the "impact".

Do you have the Panasonic GPS? While I'm an engineer and pretty fluent audio/video hobbiest, it's the one thing that I seem to have the hardest time keeping myself "trained" on.

I'll post results of my hill climbs when we return. Our toad is a land rover at 5K lbs, should be a good test.

Ron

2004 Intrigue 42
11849

Quote from: Bob Stephens
> It will be nice to hear how the cooling performs heading to Santa > Fe. We haven't pulled any long hills in hot weather yet. We're > headed back to Washington from Michigan the middle of July and

will

Quote
probably see some warm weather then. Before we do that though we > have to get the dash air fixed as it stopped cooling on the way > here. If its not one thing its another.

PS How well does your Jake brake perform. Ours doesn't seem to

work

Quote
any differently no matter which setting we use. It always seems > like we are only getting two cylinders worth of braking.

Bob

[quote author=ron930cab"

> Bob,
>

> Sounds like your data is very similar to mine. However, we did > > overheat 3 times with some pretty good coolant spray on the toad.
>

> We leave Phoenix (111 degress today) for Santa Fe, New Mexico on > > Saturday. So hope to get a real good idea of the performance in > hot

> (very hot) conditions on grade to 8000 feet or so.
>

> I too have the stainless steel intake, wish it was painted but > > doesn't look all that bad with the silver/grey paint scheme we > have.
>
> Ron
>
>
>

[quote author=Bob Stephens"
>]
> > We had our '05 Intrigue 42' Ovation upgraded in March at

Beaudry

Quote
RV

> > by the Beaudry mechanic and one of the CC mechanics. We never > had

> > any overheating before the upgrade but we only drove in cold > > > weather. The transmission temps hit 225 or so on the trip

from

Quote
WA

> > to AZ in January. Since the upgrade I never see more than 216 > on

> > the tranny unless we get stuck in traffic and then I shift

into

Quote
> neutral a lot and the temps stay down. Engine temps run up to > > about

> > 210 max (long grade in hot weather) and then the fan kicks in > and

> > the temp drops to 192. Normal down the road driving, the > engine

> > will hit 204 and then drop to 192 then up to 204 and back to > 192,

> > etc. The MPG seems to have increased a little also since the > new

> > intake ducting was done. Our only beef was that the new

intake

Quote
is

> > stainless steal instead of painted to match the coach. The > > radiator

> > grill is the same they are putting on the new '06 Intrigue.
> >
> > Bob

> > '05 Intrigue LE #11872
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

[quote author=joyce36526"
> >]
> > > We just purchased a NEW 2004 42' Intrigue Ovation. The

Allison

Quote
> 4000

> > > over heated and derated itself to 4th gear. CC proposes > a "fix"
> > with a

> > > different trans cooler, different fan and motor, new

hydralic

Quote
> fluid

> > > lines, different radiator grill and new air intake, ducting > and

> > filter.
> > >

> > > I am looking for owners of Magna and Intrigue chassis with

the

Quote
Cat
> > 13

> > > rated at 525 HP with Allison 4000 whether you have had

trouble

Quote
or
> > not.

> > > I understand there are over one hundred Magnas and over a > dozen

> > > Intrigues affected. Only two have been modified. Ours will

be

Re: cat 13 cooling

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 17086
I definitely don't have any "thrust forward in the seat". Yes, I was the other poster on the Jake, we're having it looked at by Holland Motor homes on July 7th and also have a factory appointment on Aug 15 if Holland can't fix it. We have the Panasonic GPS but we don't use it. Besides being hard to use, it has a bad habit of sending us down roads that are better for sports cars than 42' motorhomes with a toad. We use our Garmin iQue 3600 for routing.
It is usable in the coach, in the toad, hiking, or canoeing. It doubles as my PDA so I can store appointments, contacts, etc. You can select a contact and get a route to it. You can also select what type of vehicle you are driving and it will route accordingly.
We tell it we are a truck when driving the coach and it is pretty good at keeping us out of tight situations. The same software is used on the Garmin 2600 series of dashmount GPS.

Bob

'05 Intrigue LE #11872

Quote from: ron930cab

Bob

As to the jake brake, there was another post (not sure if it was > you). I have driven the coach just enough to know how most things > work, but not enough to know for sure how they behave. Mine seems > to have 3 seperate braking "levels" which is how it is supposed to > work as I understand it. Performance in the 3rd (highest)

position

Quote
thrusts you forward in the seat so I go from position to position

to

Quote
minimize the "impact".

Do you have the Panasonic GPS? While I'm an engineer and pretty > fluent audio/video hobbiest, it's the one thing that I seem to

have

Quote
the hardest time keeping myself "trained" on.

I'll post results of my hill climbs when we return. Our toad is a > land rover at 5K lbs, should be a good test.

Ron

2004 Intrigue 42
11849

[quote author=Bob Stephens"

> It will be nice to hear how the cooling performs heading to

Santa

Quote
Fe. We haven't pulled any long hills in hot weather yet. We're > > headed back to Washington from Michigan the middle of July and > will

> probably see some warm weather then. Before we do that though

we

Quote
have to get the dash air fixed as it stopped cooling on the way > > here. If its not one thing its another.
>

> PS How well does your Jake brake perform. Ours doesn't seem to > work

> any differently no matter which setting we use. It always seems > > like we are only getting two cylinders worth of braking.
>
> Bob
>
>
>

[quote author=ron930cab"
>]
> > Bob,
> >

> > Sounds like your data is very similar to mine. However, we

did

Quote
> overheat 3 times with some pretty good coolant spray on the

toad.

Quote
>

> > We leave Phoenix (111 degress today) for Santa Fe, New Mexico

on

Quote
> Saturday. So hope to get a real good idea of the performance

in

Quote
hot

> > (very hot) conditions on grade to 8000 feet or so.
> >

> > I too have the stainless steel intake, wish it was painted but > > > doesn't look all that bad with the silver/grey paint scheme we > > have.
> >
> > Ron
> >
> >
> >

[quote author=Bob Stephens"
> >]
> > > We had our '05 Intrigue 42' Ovation upgraded in March at > Beaudry
> > RV

> > > by the Beaudry mechanic and one of the CC mechanics. We

never

Quote
had

> > > any overheating before the upgrade but we only drove in cold > > > > weather. The transmission temps hit 225 or so on the trip > from
> WA

> > > to AZ in January. Since the upgrade I never see more than

216

Quote
on

> > > the tranny unless we get stuck in traffic and then I shift > into

> > > neutral a lot and the temps stay down. Engine temps run up

to

Quote
> about

> > > 210 max (long grade in hot weather) and then the fan kicks

in

Quote
and

> > > the temp drops to 192. Normal down the road driving, the > > engine

> > > will hit 204 and then drop to 192 then up to 204 and back to > > 192,

> > > etc. The MPG seems to have increased a little also since

the

Quote
new

> > > intake ducting was done. Our only beef was that the new > intake
> is

> > > stainless steal instead of painted to match the coach. The > > > radiator

> > > grill is the same they are putting on the new '06 Intrigue.
> > >
> > > Bob

> > > '05 Intrigue LE #11872
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >

[quote author=joyce36526"
> > >]
> > > > We just purchased a NEW 2004 42' Intrigue Ovation. The > Allison
> > > 4000

> > > > over heated and derated itself to 4th gear. CC proposes > > a "fix"
> > > with a

> > > > different trans cooler, different fan and motor, new > hydralic
> > > fluid

> > > > lines, different radiator grill and new air intake,

ducting

Re: cat 13 cooling

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 17087
Hey folks. The Pioneer in dash GPS doesn't seem to be much better..
It just isn't motorhome friendly and the customer support and tech support on that unit isn't very good.
On a separate note, has anyone had problems with the Trimark security not responsing to the key fob...even at very close ranges???? I've had the panels out and the antenna is extended, and the batteries are fresh?..Any thoughts other than that?????

Ray and Rue
05 Allure 31176

Quote from: Bob Stephens
> I definitely don't have any "thrust forward in the seat". Yes, I > was the other poster on the Jake, we're having it looked at by > Holland Motor homes on July 7th and also have a factory appointment > on Aug 15 if Holland can't fix it. We have the Panasonic GPS but

we

Quote
don't use it. Besides being hard to use, it has a bad habit of > sending us down roads that are better for sports cars than 42' > motorhomes with a toad. We use our Garmin iQue 3600 for routing.
It is usable in the coach, in the toad, hiking, or canoeing. It > doubles as my PDA so I can store appointments, contacts, etc. You > can select a contact and get a route to it. You can also select > what type of vehicle you are driving and it will route

accordingly.

Quote
We tell it we are a truck when driving the coach and it is pretty > good at keeping us out of tight situations. The same software is > used on the Garmin 2600 series of dashmount GPS.

Bob

'05 Intrigue LE #11872

[quote author=ron930cab"

> Bob
>

> As to the jake brake, there was another post (not sure if it was > > you). I have driven the coach just enough to know how most

things

Quote
work, but not enough to know for sure how they behave. Mine

seems

Quote
to have 3 seperate braking "levels" which is how it is supposed

to

Quote
work as I understand it. Performance in the 3rd (highest) > position

> thrusts you forward in the seat so I go from position to position > to

> minimize the "impact".
>

> Do you have the Panasonic GPS? While I'm an engineer and pretty > > fluent audio/video hobbiest, it's the one thing that I seem to > have

> the hardest time keeping myself "trained" on.
>

> I'll post results of my hill climbs when we return. Our toad is

a

Quote
land rover at 5K lbs, should be a good test.
>
> Ron

> 2004 Intrigue 42
> 11849
>
>
>

[quote author=Bob Stephens"
>]
> > It will be nice to hear how the cooling performs heading to > Santa

> > Fe. We haven't pulled any long hills in hot weather yet.

We're

Quote
> headed back to Washington from Michigan the middle of July and > > will

> > probably see some warm weather then. Before we do that though > we

> > have to get the dash air fixed as it stopped cooling on the way > > > here. If its not one thing its another.
> >

> > PS How well does your Jake brake perform. Ours doesn't seem to > > work

> > any differently no matter which setting we use. It always

seems

Quote
> like we are only getting two cylinders worth of braking.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> >

[quote author=ron930cab"
> >]
> > > Bob,
> > >

> > > Sounds like your data is very similar to mine. However, we > did

> > > overheat 3 times with some pretty good coolant spray on the > toad.
> > >

> > > We leave Phoenix (111 degress today) for Santa Fe, New Mexico > on

> > > Saturday. So hope to get a real good idea of the performance > in

> > hot

> > > (very hot) conditions on grade to 8000 feet or so.
> > >

> > > I too have the stainless steel intake, wish it was painted

but

Quote
> > doesn't look all that bad with the silver/grey paint scheme

we

Quote
> have.
> > >
> > > Ron
> > >
> > >
> > >

[quote author=Bob Stephens"
> > >]
> > > > We had our '05 Intrigue 42' Ovation upgraded in March at > > Beaudry
> > > RV

> > > > by the Beaudry mechanic and one of the CC mechanics. We > never
> > had

> > > > any overheating before the upgrade but we only drove in

cold

Quote
> > > weather. The transmission temps hit 225 or so on the trip > > from
> > WA

> > > > to AZ in January. Since the upgrade I never see more than > 216
> > on

> > > > the tranny unless we get stuck in traffic and then I shift > > into

> > > > neutral a lot and the temps stay down. Engine temps run up > to

> > > about

> > > > 210 max (long grade in hot weather) and then the fan kicks > in

> > and

> > > > the temp drops to 192. Normal down the road driving, the > > > engine

> > > > will hit 204 and then drop to 192 then up to 204 and back

to

Quote
> 192,

> > > > etc. The MPG seems to have increased a little also since > the
> > new

> > > > intake ducting was done. Our only beef was that the new > > intake
> > is

> > > > stainless steal instead of painted to match the coach. The > > > > radiator

> > > > grill is the same they are putting on the new '06 Intrigue.
> > > >
> > > > Bob

> > > > '05 Intrigue LE #11872
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >

[quote author=joyce36526"
> > > >]
> > > > > We just purchased a NEW 2004 42' Intrigue Ovation. The > > Allison
> > > > 4000

> > > > > over heated and derated itself to 4th gear. CC proposes > > > a "fix"
> > > > with a

> > > > > different trans cooler, different fan and motor, new > > hydralic
> > > > fluid

> > > > > lines, different radiator grill and new air intake, > ducting
> > and

> > > > filter.
> > > > >

> > > > > I am looking for owners of Magna and Intrigue chassis

with

Quote
the
> > > Cat
> > > > 13

> > > > > rated at 525 HP with Allison 4000 whether you have had > > trouble
> > > or
> > > > not.

> > > > > I understand there are over one hundred Magnas and over a > > > dozen

> > > > > Intrigues affected. Only two have been modified. Ours

will

Re: cat 13 cooling

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 17094
Dr. Bob

Our 05 Magna #6425 has been refitted for the overheating and is working just fine. This is an industry wide problem and most of the coach companies are still learning about these new engines.

Bill G. 2005 Magna #6425

Re: cat 13 cooling

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 17095
Bob,

The Panasonic GPS is easy to use and better then most once you have mastered it. Go to a CC rally some time and have the Panasonic guy come to your coach for a few lessions and you will love it. The voice command is fun to use.

Bill G. 2005 Magna #6425

Re: cat 13 cooling

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 17099
Sorry, Bill G., I have agreed with most of your posts but on this one I have to stick with my original post. I've mastered the Panasonic, its just not up to speed with the other GPS systems I've used. My Garmin has better listings of places to go, especially truck stops, and allows more tuning of trip routing. I'll stick with the Garmin for now. My Garmin has a nice voice also.

Bob

Pioneer GPS Apology

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 17112
Hey, Bill, I need to eat some crow. I screwed up, our GPS is a Pioneer not Panasonic. The Panasonic might be better, the Pioneer is a joke. I'll probably stick with our Garmin though.

Bob

'05 Intrigue LE #11872

Re: Pioneer GPS Apology

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 17114
Bill/Bob,

I'll eat some crow too, mine is also a pioneer, the TV in front was Panasonic. I do use the Pioneer, it's just that we use the coach a bit infrequently, so I have to re-learn it everytime. My portable Garmin for the toad is just much easier to use.

So my apologies,
Ron

2004 Intrigue 42
11849

Quote from: Bob Stephens
> Hey, Bill, I need to eat some crow. I screwed up, our GPS is a > Pioneer not Panasonic. The Panasonic might be better, the Pioneer

is

Quote
a joke. I'll probably stick with our Garmin though.

Bob

'05 Intrigue LE #11872

Quote from: gablerwh@a...
> Bob,

> The Panasonic GPS is easy to use and better then most once you

have

Quote
mastered

> it. Go to a CC rally some time and have the Panasonic guy come

to

Quote
your coach

> for a few lessions and you will love it. The voice command is

fun to
 

Re: Pioneer GPS Apology

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 17133
Rob and Bob,

Don't apologize, mine is also a Pionneer, I guess I called it a Pansonic because the Panisonic rep is the one who trains people at the rallies. He does both the Pioneer and Pansonic because his company developed the equipment interface in our coaches and they sell the equipment. I have a Dell lap top but I don't like using it when I drive.

Bill G. 2005 Magna #6425