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Coolant leak revisited...only when hydronic heat working

Yahoo Message Number: 21704
Hi folks...I remember a thread a few months ago which isn't coming up on a search, where someone had a coolant leak and they finally found it in something like a front heat exchanger? Can someone comment?

We've definitively found that our coolant leak which before seemed to be minor.. hydronic heat. Several times the coolant loss has been looked at before...Cummins, CC, etc. Loose fittings, etc. were tightened, but no other cause was found.

Now, in Bend, OR where we've been sitting for 6 weeks, we've now gone through 2 gallons of Compleat...but not traveled. So it's only our hydronic heat (Hurricane) that is causing the leak. No smell has ever been associated with this. (It's been so cold that we've only used our hydronic heat...the heat pumps can't work well in 30's.)

I remember someone said they finally found their leak which had something to do with a heat exchanger or something "in the front" of the coach. Would like more info from that person.

Thanks..
Jan McNeill

2001 Intrigue 11320 Hurricane Hydronic Heat

Re: Coolant leak revisited...only when hydronic heat working

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 21705
Jan, I had the same problem about 2 years ago and posted it. Unfortunately I did not discover the problem until the leak got so bad it ruined the carpeting, through out the coach. (I had it stored during the winter with the heater set low to avoid freezing) There are at least three heat exchangers in my Magna one in the front dash, one under the sink, and one in the rear bedroom under the wardrobe. Two leaked anti freeze and I had to replace the valves and connectors on all three. Luckily the insurance company picked up most of the bill but getting the carpeting replace with the same or better quality was not an easy task because there are no large RV repair shop nearby.

I would recommend inspecting each of the exchangers and replacing all of the connectors even if they are not currently leaking. It will be cheaper in the long run.

John Bicknas 1997 Magna 5416

Re: Coolant leak revisited...only when hydronic heat working

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 21706
Re: [Country-Coach-Owners] Coolant leak revisited...only when hydronic heat working I can't help you with a specific post, but can tell you of our experience with our Hydro Hot in our last coach. It kept loosing fluid, but for the longest time we couldn't find where it was leaking. They had us check all the heat exchangers, but no leak there. After several months of loosing fluid, it finally started to leak at the unit itself. Turns out there was a plastic fitting that went from a hose directly into the unit that could not handle the heat expansion and cracked and eventually broke off. The fluid accumulated in the insulation and when it finally got saturated it started to drip. When we took the coach to Vehicle Systems they replaced the plastic fitting with a brass one and no more troubles. Not sure if the Hurricane has a similar issue, but if you can't find the leak, the fluid may be accumulating in the insulation in the unit.
Good luck.
--
Sue

'05-42' Allure #31254

Re: Coolant leak revisited...only when hydronic heat working

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 21708
Jan, the thread you were referring to was a leak in the heat exchanger of the dash heat/air. Engine coolant is routed from the engine area to the under dash heat exchanger to provide hot air for the dash heat/air. If you are loosing engine coolant (I assume that is what you mean by Compleat), the only connection on a Hydro-Hot with the engine coolant is the engine pre-heat. There is one coil inside the HH heat exchanger that routes engine coolant into the Hydro-Hot heat exchanger and then pumps it through the engine to warm the engine for starting on cold days. If you aren't running the engine preheat it is hard to imagine the Hydro-Hot is affecting the coolant leak. You might have a slow leak in the radiator like we had.
Bob

'05 Intrigue 11872

Quote from: janmcneill
Hi folks...I remember a thread a few months ago which isn't coming > up on a search, where someone had a coolant leak and they finally > found it in something like a front heat exchanger? Can someone > comment?

We've definitively found that our coolant leak which before seemed > to be minor.. > hydronic heat. Several times the coolant loss has been looked at > before...Cummins, CC, etc. Loose fittings, etc. were tightened,

but

Quote
no other cause was found.

Now, in Bend, OR where we've been sitting for 6 weeks, we've now > gone through 2 gallons of Compleat...but not traveled. So it's

only

Quote
our hydronic heat (Hurricane) that is causing the leak. No smell

has

Quote
ever been associated with this. (It's been so cold that we've only > used our hydronic heat...the heat pumps can't work well in 30's.) >

I remember someone said they finally found their leak which had > something to do with a heat exchanger or something "in the front"

of

Re: Coolant leak revisited...only when hydronic heat working

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 21710
QUOTE: "...the only connection on a Hydro-Hot with the engine coolant is the engine pre-heat."

Not true on my coach. My engine coolant runs through an independent heat exchanger inside the Hurricane-brand Hydronic heater which is used exclusively for furnace heat and hot water while going down the road. I have the engine oil pre-heater, not the coolant preheat from the hydronic. I also have the dash heater.

Larry, 2003 Allure #30856

Quote from: Bob Stephens
>

Jan, the thread you were referring to was a leak in the heat > exchanger of the dash heat/air. Engine coolant is routed from the > engine area to the under dash heat exchanger to provide hot air for > the dash heat/air. If you are loosing engine coolant (I assume

that

Quote
is what you mean by Compleat), the only connection on a Hydro-Hot > with the engine coolant is the engine pre-heat. There is one coil > inside the HH heat exchanger that routes engine coolant into the > Hydro-Hot heat exchanger and then pumps it through the engine to > warm the engine for starting on cold days. If you aren't running > the engine preheat it is hard to imagine the Hydro-Hot is affecting > the coolant leak. You might have a slow leak in the radiator like > we had.

Bob

'05 Intrigue 11872

[quote author=janmcneill"

>

> Hi folks...I remember a thread a few months ago which isn't

coming

Quote
up on a search, where someone had a coolant leak and they finally > > found it in something like a front heat exchanger? Can someone > > comment?
>

> We've definitively found that our coolant leak which before

seemed

Quote
to be minor.. > > hydronic heat. Several times the coolant loss has been looked at > > before...Cummins, CC, etc. Loose fittings, etc. were tightened, > but

> no other cause was found.
>

> Now, in Bend, OR where we've been sitting for 6 weeks, we've now > > gone through 2 gallons of Compleat...but not traveled. So it's > only

> our hydronic heat (Hurricane) that is causing the leak. No smell > has

> ever been associated with this. (It's been so cold that we've

only

Re: Coolant leak revisited...only when hydronic heat working

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 21714
Yes, Larry, the same coil on the Hydro-Hot that is used for engine pre-heat is used for heating the hot water when the engine is running BUT when the engine is not running no coolant is circulating through the Hydro-Hot unless the engine pre-heat pump is running. I don't see how "running" the hydro-hot would contribute to coolant leaking unless its just leaking due to a bad fitting. I'd want to know where the coolant is going. Hopefully not into the water supply.
Bob

'05 Intrigue 11872

Quote from: Larry Feather
>

QUOTE: "...the only connection on a Hydro-Hot with the engine

coolant

Quote
is the engine pre-heat." >

Not true on my coach. My engine coolant runs through an

independent

Quote
heat exchanger inside the Hurricane-brand Hydronic heater which is > used exclusively for furnace heat and hot water while going down

the

Quote
road. I have the engine oil pre-heater, not the coolant preheat

from

Quote
the hydronic. I also have the dash heater.

Larry, 2003 Allure #30856

[quote author=Bob Stephens"

>

> Jan, the thread you were referring to was a leak in the heat > > exchanger of the dash heat/air. Engine coolant is routed from

the

Quote
engine area to the under dash heat exchanger to provide hot air

for

Quote
the dash heat/air. If you are loosing engine coolant (I assume > that

> is what you mean by Compleat), the only connection on a Hydro-

Hot

Quote
with the engine coolant is the engine pre-heat. There is one

coil

Quote
inside the HH heat exchanger that routes engine coolant into the > > Hydro-Hot heat exchanger and then pumps it through the engine to > > warm the engine for starting on cold days. If you aren't

running

Quote
the engine preheat it is hard to imagine the Hydro-Hot is

affecting

Quote
the coolant leak. You might have a slow leak in the radiator

like

Quote
we had.
>
> Bob

> '05 Intrigue 11872
>
>
>

[quote author=janmcneill"
>]
> >

> > Hi folks...I remember a thread a few months ago which isn't > coming

> > up on a search, where someone had a coolant leak and they

finally

Quote
> found it in something like a front heat exchanger? Can someone > > > comment?
> >

> > We've definitively found that our coolant leak which before > seemed

> > to be minor..

our

Quote
> hydronic heat. Several times the coolant loss has been looked

at

Quote
> before...Cummins, CC, etc. Loose fittings, etc. were

tightened,

Quote
but

> > no other cause was found.
> >

> > Now, in Bend, OR where we've been sitting for 6 weeks, we've

now

Quote
> gone through 2 gallons of Compleat...but not traveled. So it's > > only

> > our hydronic heat (Hurricane) that is causing the leak. No

smell

Quote
has

> > ever been associated with this. (It's been so cold that we've > only

> > used our hydronic heat...the heat pumps can't work well in

30's.)

Quote
>

> > I remember someone said they finally found their leak which

had

Quote
> something to do with a heat exchanger or something "in the

front"

Re: Coolant leak revisited...only when hydronic heat working

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 21715
I just reread Jan's post. Its about Hurricane heater. I have a Hydro-Hot. Different beasts, I'll shut up.

Bob

Quote from: Bob Stephens
>

Yes, Larry, the same coil on the Hydro-Hot that is used for engine > pre-heat is used for heating the hot water when the engine is > running BUT when the engine is not running no coolant is

circulating

Quote
through the Hydro-Hot unless the engine pre-heat pump is running.

I

Quote
don't see how "running" the hydro-hot would contribute to coolant > leaking unless its just leaking due to a bad fitting. I'd want to > know where the coolant is going. Hopefully not into the water > supply.

Bob

'05 Intrigue 11872

[quote author=Larry Feather"

>

> QUOTE: "...the only connection on a Hydro-Hot with the engine > coolant

> is the engine pre-heat."
>

> Not true on my coach. My engine coolant runs through an > independent

> heat exchanger inside the Hurricane-brand Hydronic heater which

is

Quote
used exclusively for furnace heat and hot water while going down > the

> road. I have the engine oil pre-heater, not the coolant preheat > from

> the hydronic. I also have the dash heater.
>

> Larry, 2003 Allure #30856
>
>
>

Quote from: Bob Stephens"[/quote
Quote
]
> >

> > Jan, the thread you were referring to was a leak in the heat > > > exchanger of the dash heat/air. Engine coolant is routed from > the

> > engine area to the under dash heat exchanger to provide hot

air

Quote
for

> > the dash heat/air. If you are loosing engine coolant (I

assume

Quote
that

> > is what you mean by Compleat), the only connection on a Hydro- > Hot

> > with the engine coolant is the engine pre-heat. There is one > coil

> > inside the HH heat exchanger that routes engine coolant into

the

Quote
> Hydro-Hot heat exchanger and then pumps it through the engine

to

Quote
> warm the engine for starting on cold days. If you aren't > running

> > the engine preheat it is hard to imagine the Hydro-Hot is > affecting

> > the coolant leak. You might have a slow leak in the radiator > like

> > we had.
> >
> > Bob

> > '05 Intrigue 11872
> >
> >
> >

[quote author=janmcneill"
> >]
> > >

> > > Hi folks...I remember a thread a few months ago which isn't > > coming

> > > up on a search, where someone had a coolant leak and they > finally

> > > found it in something like a front heat exchanger? Can

someone

Quote
> > comment?
> > >

> > > We've definitively found that our coolant leak which before > > seemed

> > > to be minor.. > our

> > > hydronic heat. Several times the coolant loss has been

looked

Quote
at

> > > before...Cummins, CC, etc. Loose fittings, etc. were > tightened,
> > but

> > > no other cause was found.
> > >

> > > Now, in Bend, OR where we've been sitting for 6 weeks, we've > now

> > > gone through 2 gallons of Compleat...but not traveled. So

it's

Quote
> only

> > > our hydronic heat (Hurricane) that is causing the leak. No > smell
> > has

> > > ever been associated with this. (It's been so cold that

we've

Re: Coolant leak revisited...only when hydronic heat working

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 21720
From what we understand, our coolant system circulates both through the Hurricane Heater and our engine (Cummins 350) all the time. When we drive down the road, if we want "free heat" we can select the Furnace on our thermostat, and we get heat...and hot water when we land at the RV park that night.

Right now we've not been traveling and only using the Furnace setting, so that's why we are now confident that it has something to do with the Hurricane system. We are hearing some "noise" (gurgling) when our furnace goes off if we are standing in the hallway near where our water heater is behind the drawers. Not sure if that is normal, either. Hadn't really noticed it before...a clue? I would have thought that when they pressurized the system, that any leak in the coolant would have been found. But perhaps the key is in the "hot" mode...I seem to remember that someone here had a leak that they found only when the system had been used for awhile and was hot...anyone comment on that?

Thanks for the suggestions, but so far, it sounds like everyone has had different problems and solutions.
Some hints to give the NW Cummins folks in Coburg though where we're headed in 2 weeks...
Jan

2001 Intrigue 11320

Re: Coolant leak revisited...only when hydronic heat working

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 21722
Jan my coach is a little and I have had leaks in the Hurricane system, just about everywhere it could leak. As explained earlier, the heat exchangers leaked under the cabinets where you can see them until its to late and you notice the antifreeze. I also had the control valve leak back by the engine and the Hurricane heater. Its the valve that allows circulation of the antifreeze from the engine to the heater system. All have been replaced and I currently have no leaks. CC's method of clamping the hose to the heat exchanger was less than optimum. On a boat when we are concerned about leakage we double clamp with stainless steel clamps to ensure an add measure of safety and its even required by insurance companies for all thru hull clamps. I would recommend, even if you have not had a problem yet, that you double clamp all connections to your heat exchangers.

John Bicknas 97 Magna 5416

P.S. You are right I only lost antifreeze when the Heater was on and it was only noticeable after a period of time.

Re: Coolant leak revisited...only when hydronic heat working

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 21724
QUOTE: "I don't see how "running" the hydro-hot would contribute to coolant leaking unless its just leaking due to a bad fitting."

I agree.

Larry

Quote from: Bob Stephens
>

Yes, Larry, the same coil on the Hydro-Hot that is used for engine > pre-heat is used for heating the hot water when the engine is > running BUT when the engine is not running no coolant is

circulating

Quote
through the Hydro-Hot unless the engine pre-heat pump is running.

I

Quote
don't see how "running" the hydro-hot would contribute to coolant > leaking unless its just leaking due to a bad fitting. I'd want to > know where the coolant is going. Hopefully not into the water > supply.

Bob

'05 Intrigue 11872

[quote author=Larry Feather"

>

> QUOTE: "...the only connection on a Hydro-Hot with the engine > coolant

> is the engine pre-heat."
>

> Not true on my coach. My engine coolant runs through an > independent

> heat exchanger inside the Hurricane-brand Hydronic heater which

is

Quote
used exclusively for furnace heat and hot water while going down > the

> road. I have the engine oil pre-heater, not the coolant preheat > from

> the hydronic. I also have the dash heater.
>

> Larry, 2003 Allure #30856
>
>
>

Quote from: Bob Stephens"[/quote
Quote
]
> >

> > Jan, the thread you were referring to was a leak in the heat > > > exchanger of the dash heat/air. Engine coolant is routed from > the

> > engine area to the under dash heat exchanger to provide hot air > for

> > the dash heat/air. If you are loosing engine coolant (I assume > > that

> > is what you mean by Compleat), the only connection on a Hydro- > Hot

> > with the engine coolant is the engine pre-heat. There is one > coil

> > inside the HH heat exchanger that routes engine coolant into

the

Quote
> Hydro-Hot heat exchanger and then pumps it through the engine

to

Quote
> warm the engine for starting on cold days. If you aren't > running

> > the engine preheat it is hard to imagine the Hydro-Hot is > affecting

> > the coolant leak. You might have a slow leak in the radiator > like

> > we had.
> >
> > Bob

> > '05 Intrigue 11872
> >
> >
> >

[quote author=janmcneill"
> >]
> > >

> > > Hi folks...I remember a thread a few months ago which isn't > > coming

> > > up on a search, where someone had a coolant leak and they > finally

> > > found it in something like a front heat exchanger? Can

someone

Quote
> > comment?
> > >

> > > We've definitively found that our coolant leak which before > > seemed

> > > to be minor.. > our

> > > hydronic heat. Several times the coolant loss has been looked > at

> > > before...Cummins, CC, etc. Loose fittings, etc. were > tightened,
> > but

> > > no other cause was found.
> > >

> > > Now, in Bend, OR where we've been sitting for 6 weeks, we've > now

> > > gone through 2 gallons of Compleat...but not traveled. So

it's
 

Re: Coolant leak revisited...only when hydronic heat working

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 21738
Thanks, John B...I think it was your posting I recalled.
'Only when the heater was on."

You've all given me clues to make sure they track down. Here's hoping...
Jan McNeill

2001 Intrigue 11320