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Low sulfur fuel ...

Yahoo Message Number: 23446
We just got back from a 4200 mile round trip to Disneyland from N IL.

At every fuel up there was a sticker saying, essentially, that this pump is low sulfur fuel and cannot be put into a 2007 or later vehicle, against federal law, and could damage the engine.

So ... what fuel would i put in my new 2007 CC, if i had one ????
I do not remember seeing this sticker in April when we came home from FL.

Sorry if this was just discussed ...

John and Terry
2005 Affinity

Re: Low sulfur fuel ...

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23448
I believe the answer is you would put in ULSD, "Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel." As of July 1 of this year each State has to have some percentage of their diesel fuel being sold as the new ULSD type. That is probably why the stickers are starting to show up on pumps.
The follow-on question is: When there is nothing available except ULSD, will the pre-2007 diesel engines burn the higher sulfur diesel without damage? I don't know the answer to that.

Gerry

Owner of 5th wheel - currently lurking - hoping to buy soon.

John wrote:

Re: Low sulfur fuel ...

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23449
The 2007 diesels will have significantly different emission standards applied against them. There is a super low sulphur fuel coming, sometime, that will work in all vehicles. It's kinda like unleaded gas vehicles when they first came out...don't use regular leaded gas in them or mess up the converter. My diesel pump here in Ft. Worth now says the same thing. Glad my diesel is 2003. The 2007s and on will be less MPG...ugh.

David
Ft. Worth

Looking, Looking, Looking for a CC.

Re: Low sulfur fuel ...

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23450
Hi Folks,

Starting June 2006 and ending 2010 - transition period for Ultra low sulfur diesel fuel. New engines in 2007 can only us the Ultra. Some states are working on mandatory retrofit - California and Texas so far. I think this introduces urea injection - haven't research it enough yet.
Fred Kovol

Re: Low sulfur fuel ...

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23452
The question about fuel pumps saying that the diesel from that pump could not be put into 2007 or later vehicle was asked at the June 2006 CC Rally in Eugene.

The answer from the CC executives is that it does not apply to the new 2007 model year of the new Country Coaches, as the coaches are still using the "older" engines. 2008 coaches will be a different story. (My comment: The CC model year starts very early, compared to some other vehicles. Might watch for late model year changes as we approach 2008 models.)
Herb

Buyer of new

2007 Allure 40' #31466
Forum Moderator

Re: Low sulfur fuel ...

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23453
Hi Folks,

It will be very important in 2007 to ask about engine requirements both for fuel, urea injection required if any and oil. Also what is the fuel mileage reduction. Understanding the approaches which will be selected - see the following:

http://www.everytime.cummins.com/every/pdf/4103666.pdf
All approaches will have a cost involved with added scheduled maintenance cost.

Fred Kovol

Re: Low sulfur fuel ...

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23454
Quote
Hi Folks,

It will be very important in 2007 to ask about engine requirements > both for fuel, urea injection required if any and oil. Also what is > the fuel mileage reduction. Understanding the approaches which will be > selected - see the following:
It will be very interesting to see IF/WHEN we will wake up and see what such IDIOTIC eWacko inspired/mandated policies are doing to the world's economies. Very sad indeed!

Tom Fisher
Dallas, TX

Re: Low sulfur fuel ...

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23495
I just read an interesting article on ultra low sulfur diesel fuel in the Flying J Long haul Letter. I also found it on line at the following address:
http://www.agccolorado.org/special-topics/Sulfur%20Fuel/AGCA%20Report.pdf
I also posted this article on the CC Forum files area.

It makes some interesting reading. I am glad I have a 2005.

Kevin

05 Intrigue

--- David Cole dlcole@...> wrote:

Quote
The 2007 diesels will have significantly different > emission standards applied against them. There is a > super low sulphur fuel coming, sometime, that will > work in all vehicles. It's kinda like unleaded gas > vehicles when they first came out...don't use > regular leaded gas in them or mess up the converter.
 My diesel pump here in Ft. Worth now says the same > thing. Glad my diesel is 2003. The 2007s and on > will be less MPG...ugh.

David
Ft. Worth

Looking, Looking, Looking for a CC.

John john@...> wrote:

We just got back from a 4200 mile round > trip to Disneyland from N IL.

At every fuel up there was a sticker saying, > essentially, that this

pump is low sulfur fuel and cannot be put into a > 2007 or later vehicle,

against federal law, and could damage the engine.

So ... what fuel would i put in my new 2007 CC, if > i had one ????

I do not remember seeing this sticker in April when > we came home from
 FL.

Sorry if this was just discussed ...

John and Terry
 2005 Affinity

Re: Low sulfur fuel ...

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23507
Kevin

Thanks for posting that information on the diesel fuel. We have been assured by CC that our new 2007 Affinity will not be affected by this new law, because in essence it is manufactured in 2006 with the engine that does not have to meet the 2007 standards. But eventually we will all be using this new fuel no matter what year our coach is or what engine it has installed. The biggest issues will be the new emission standards and the coach manufacturers meeting those specifications and modifications in the coaches after January 2007. This is the way I understand it anyway, I could be wrong.
This makes our 2005 Affinity even a greater value to anyone wanting a late model pre-owned coach.

Dale & Candace Hollick
05 Affinity #6370 Quad Slide 45'FOR SALE

Re: Low sulfur fuel ...

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23509
Regarding message #9:
At the 20th Annual West Coast Class Reunion, I attended Company Session that was conducted by CC President Jay Howard. I told him that I wanted to purchase a 2007 CC, but, I was concerned about the fuel notices that had I observed on the diesel pumps at truck stops.
President Howard stated that the fuel was not a concern with the 2007 diesel engines in CC Coaches and that I could continue to use the existing fuel. Further, that in the future any facility that sells diesel will also be required to sell the new diesel fuel. Thus, all fuels will be available to us.
I purchased a 2007 Allure 470. I would like to see an article in Destinations by Mr. Howard regarding the new fuel, its use and how it will affect us. I would also like a more detailed explanation as to why the old fuel will not harm our diesel engines (2007 and ?). Further, will all of us with our diesels be forced to use the new designer fuel in the future?
Bob Follrath
CC Intrigue 1st Avenue

Re: Low sulfur fuel ...

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23510
I am the OP on this, and appreciate all the info posted.

I don't see any big deal here ... if you read the posted links. My take is that the reason the pumps are 'stickered' like this is a liability thing, to cover the vendor until they are pumping only UL stuff. By the time I get my theoretical 2008 unit, most pumps will only offer the UL sulfur fuel as many have already switched.
I am a little concerned about the urea injection, that would be a pain, but I will handle that if it comes. I don't drive enough for the possible mileage decline to be a problem.

I will continue to monitor things until late this year when we are thinking of trading, and make a decision then. At least I understand what is going on thanks to you folks.

John and Terry
2005 Affinity

Re: Low sulfur fuel ...

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23519
John, you might want to give some serious thought to buying an 07 instaed of waiting til 08...it will take awhile for the mfg to get the kinks out in 08 and possibly into 09. Just my 2 cents for whatever that is worth,

Dale & Candace Hollick
05 Affinity #6370 Quad Slide 45'FOR SALE

Re: Low sulfur fuel ...

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23525
With all the studying I did before going with CC, I missed their really off the wall policy of introducing a new model year so early.
We picked up our Affinity in Dec of 05, and 10 minutes later it was a model year old already. My fault for not hanging our here more.

We have only had it about 1 1/2 years ... a little early to trade.
That's why I mentioned a 2008.

As far a bugs go ... I have had just about everything that was glued fall off so far ... not a bug, just careless assy. This will be the case on a 2007, 2008, 2009 or whatever. Unless they are planning some big design changes, I assume we will go thru process on any year coach we buy.

Or we might just keep this one ... it's been pretty well debugged.
On a side note ... my house batteries are cooked I think, because CC set the Zantex inverter/charger to flooded, not gel. Just discoverd this on our last trip. The house batteries last about two hours just running the 'frig. One more bug to go I guess.

Thanks ...

John and Terry
2005 Affinity

Quote from: Dale and Candace Hollick\[br\
] >

John, you might want to give some serious thought to buying an 07
instaed of waiting til 08...it will take awhile for the mfg to get the kinks out in 08 and possibly into 09. Just my 2 cents for whatever that is worth,

Re: Low sulfur fuel ...

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23527
Since you can't edit, I have to post a correction.

Make that Dec 04 as pick up date ...

John
 

Re: Low sulfur fuel ...

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 23535
According to what I heard from speaking to Terry Becker, CC Chief Engr. There will be no use of Urea. Just a complicated particle filter with a regenerating ysytem to keep it clean and an EGR system. TWI Intrighue 11731