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Desert Storm

Yahoo Message Number: 1462
Hi everyone.

We have recently purchased a 1999 Allure Deschutes with 5,600 miles on it. The coach is No. 30288 and was delivered mid year 1998.
At the recent FMCA Western Rally in Indio, we were placed in a dirt overflow area. This is the first time we have had the coach on dirt. Tremendous amounts of dust blown out the passenger side of the unit, encircled the coach and a lot of the dust gets sucked in the intake side. However, must of the dust gets all over everyone and everything else. Bystanders not only shake their head when they see me coming, but one fine gentleman shuck his fist at us. I think I noticed one finger was sticking out of the fist. Needless to say, the coaches performance is an embarrassment to us and should be to CC. It was so embarrassing to us that we left during the night before the rally officially broke up the next day.
The following week we had CC get involved at the Tucson rally. They changed an orifice in the controller section of the fan system. Went from a very small opening to a much larger one which lowered the fan speed from 1200 to 800 at a cold idle. I would think it would be zero. We noticed when pulling out a couple of days after the rally ended, that we were still blowing dust even on the asphalt pavement. We pulled immediately into Beaudry. They worked with CC determined it was a control valve. Part to be shipped. We stopped back a couple of weeks later. The wrong part was shipped. Stopped back a couple of weeks later (isn't retirement great) and the control valve didn't fix the problem. It was determined that the diagnosis was wrong and that it really was being caused by the fan motor. Rather than wait for a couple more weeks for a new fan motor, we left for home in Southern California.
CC suggested that we work with Colton Truck to get the problem resolved. Colton Truck says and CC has just confirmed, that nothing is wrong with the fan system. It's all functioning as designed. Colton has fabricated a plate to redirect the air. CC tells me that they have seen this fix before but their engineers are concerned that this might create other problems. I'm picking the coach up tomorrow and we shall see the results.
Since I have been aware of this problem, I have watched many coaches on dirt/dust and I have noticed no significant problem with blowing large amounts of dust. I know talking with several CC owners, this is a problem on many of CC's coaches. Anyone out there with any other ideas on a fix or an experience?

Tom & Joyce Newman Canyon Lake CA

Re: Desert Storm

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1463
" Since I have been aware of this problem, I have watched many coaches on dirt/dust and I have noticed no significant problem with blowing large amounts of dust. I know talking with several CC owners, this is a problem on many of CC's coaches. Anyone out there with any other ideas on a fix or an experience? "
-------------

Yes, I also had this problem and replacing the orifices in the hydraulic fluid line fixed it. It now only blows dust when first coming off the highway into like a campground road for only a minute or so. I also asked CC service about installing a baffle and they were concerned about "cavitating" the fan.

Re: Desert Storm

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1467
a few thoughts on the 'dust storm' I've experienced this also when I drove into dirt campgrounds. I asked CC if there was a way I could put a switch on the dash to cut the fan speed down for just a few minutes until I got parked. I received a few emails back but never really got an answer..

Here are a few postings from the past...

The solution to the fan blowing up the dust and filling your air cleaner, in my estimation, would be to fully enclose the fan. It now extends out of its enclosure by a couple inches. I questioned Country Coach service and they were afraid that enclosing it would cavitate the fan. So, I installed the kit to slow down the fan and now live with it. After coming off the highway it will kick up dust for a minute until the coolant cools back down. By the way, there was a long thread on another newsgroup about fans on Freightliner chassis kicking up dust. Freightliner designed a retrofittable fan enclosure for them. Or at least, gave their blessing for the owners to make one.
Sincerely

gwb36@...
--- In Country-Coach-Owners@y..., "Peter Harrison" peterh@b...> wrote: Jim, There are three sensors that control the fan. In our case the intake air sensor was defunct causing the fan to run at full speed at all times, even when the engine was first started. Very dusty in campgrounds, expensive on fuel and, worst of all, in the chilly north here, coolant temperature never exceeded 135 in 30 degree ambient.

I am having a similar problem with my 2000 Allure. One switch was replaced and this fix kept the fan off until it got to 180 degrees.
However, the fan would only operate on the low speed. One a hill the temp would go up to 220 degrees. They replaced another controller that tested defective. The coach is back for repair as the problem still exists. To drive the coach, I learned that by disconnecting the 6 pin electrical connecter at the rear of the radiator, the system will default to high speed of the cooling fan. I am interested to learn what the problem really is.

Dave

And here is an email from Jori Leever at Country Coach to me regarding the same problem.

Jim,

I apologize if I don't seem to be giving you all the information you want.
I've been told that Country Coach doesn't cover or recommend that repair anymore. I did discuss this with Kevin Kiscoan in detail and received more information.

The modification to the Intrigue's Cummins ISC 350hp engine was to remove the orifice fitting to drop the fans speed when the engine is cool. Normal fan speed with the orifice fittings installed is approximately 700-900 rpm's, without, the fan speed is approximately 300-500 rpm's. We since have had several complaints(and repairs) that the air conditioning high side condenser line blew out at the fittings.
The defroster runs in conjunction with the air conditioning system, same as today's vehicles. We found that by removing the orifice fittings, when the engine is cool, the fan speed was not great enough to run the necessary amount of air across the condenser. Therefore, the high side line pressure increases too much, too soon, thus creating a failure at the line.
There is a non-warranty upgrade that you can have installed on your system to accommodate for removing the orifice fittings without having to worry about the engine temperature or the condenser lines. An on/off "controller" can be installed between the fan motor and the thermovalve. I do not have prices at this time, but can get those if you choose. This will take about one week to gather the information.

Jorie Leever

DynoMax Chassis Service
Technical Representative

Re: Desert Storm

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1468
Rear engine coaches, or busses for that matter, should be kept off dirt or desert roads as much as possible. Forget what you are doing to others, Very little can be done to redirect the air flow. Best to keep it at an idle when caught in that position

Think of what you are doing to your coach. The dust kicked up or sucked into the engine compartment acts as an abrasive on the belts, pulleys and all engine components. I speak from experience on this subject.

Fred

#4393(bc)

Re: Desert Storm

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1480
Tom,

We had the dust problem with our former Intrigue and CC told us to make sure we turned off tthe AC before we entered a campground and that would reduce the fan speed and eliminate the dust. It seamed to work for us.

Bill G.

Re: Desert Storm

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1482
We have a 2000 Afinity and have the same problem, which is so embarrassing when entering camps with dirt roads...we slow to almost a stop but still get a dust storm which gets on all coaches. Also asked CC about the problem but evidently nothing can be done...Hope there is an answer to it as we just live with it and do a lot of apologizing..not good advertising for CC. Jim Packard

Re: Desert Storm

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1485
We have a 2001 Intrigue and had a recall on the fan controller. The controller was reprogrammed by the factor but when reinstalled the fan was still running wide open all the time. Turned out that a wire (across the manufold I believe) had burned and shorted out. Problem was fixed.

Bob 11237

Re: Desert Storm FIX

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1486
Dear Tom,

The blowing dust problem is unbeliveable isn't it. People look at you like you have the plague. I remember pulling in and out of a fruit stand near Wenatchee and my mental image was of a huge jet helicopter landing and taking off. You could not see the sun!!!!!! :-((
Turning off the air did help (as suggested by another group member), but in my case the problem was bigger. I contacted Cummins and they told me that Country Coach built and installed an ELABORATE series of fans and associated wiring and switching. I go the feeling that Cummins perceived that some "over-enginering" was evident.
I pointed out the problem when I had my coach (2000 Intrigue 11142 - 350 ISC) in for work at Junction City. They replaced the following parts and the system works fine now (although I did have some continued coolant loss which was corrected by installing a larger coolant holding tank - 6 gallons. Incidentally there is factory provided fix for the coolant loss for a limited series of Intrigues - mine is one of them, with Hydronic Heat.)

Parts installed:
18414

1EA Sensor Coolant Temp. Fan Drive Control

17437

20FT Cable 20 GA. Twisted Pair Blue (1000/RL

15966

4EA Butt Splice 16-14GA Sealed Solder
THEY THEN LISTED ANOTHER 18414 SENSOR ON THE PARTS LIST - IT APPEARS THAT THEY INSTALLED ANOTHER ONE??

Now for the bad news: Who do you get to do the work if you don't happen to live in Eugene, Oregon?

I would contact Tim at M&M Coach in Chino Hills (I see you live in Canyon Lake). The factory guys really respect him and he is approved to do warranty work. He can refer you to other service providers if he cannot help, but I think he can fix it.

If you cannot find the phone number, send me an e-mail and I'll supply it. Tim has been doing all of the seheduled maintenace on our unit. Incidentally, we live in Trabuco Canyon and store our coach in Pomona.

If you know the previous owner, I would ask them if the problem is an old one, going back to when they purchased the coach and if they ever reported it to CC. You may have a basis fo rrequesting reimbursement from CC after you get the thing fixed.

Chuck Gauthier Intrigue 11142

Re: Desert Storm

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1487
We had some luck turning off our AC on our 98 Magna but no luck on the 2000 Affinnity...talked to CC and they said nothing could be done about it.
Wondering if new coaches have this problem...It's humiliating to pull off onto a dirt area therefore we avoid them and miss some of the RVing fun...and our rig gets dirty and needs wiping afterwards, not to mention what's happening underneath the rig. J. Packard

Desert Storm

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1490
Thanks everyone for your comments and ideas.
I had tried the no dash AC idea, but it didn't help. I tried idle, but this just prolonged the dust problem. The previous owner only took two trips with the coach and never on dirt. The never on dirt idea is great, but I believe it leads to dull camp sites.
I'm off today to pickup the coach at Corona Truck. They fabricated and installed a baffle and says it works great. I'll file my report after I check it out.

Thanks again everyone.

Tom & Joyce, Allure 36', 30288

Re: Desert Storm

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1512
did you have your ac compressor turned on when the dust was blowing badly? MY 99 magna 5611 was running high ac head pressure because the fan hardly ever came on a slow speeds so they devised a relay of some type which is tied to the ac compressor which turns the fan on high when ac is on to bring down the head pressure. The side effect is that at slow speeds with the ac on I blow up a dust storm, so to stop that I just turn off the ac compressor if I am blowing too much dust around at slow speeds. dave spain

Desert Storm

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1586
Do I have a problem with one of the three switches controlling the fan?

IMMEDIATELY, upon starting a cold engine (ambient temp was 65 degrees), the radiator fan starts running. The transmission temp never makes it to mid-scale -- always running cool. Don't recall of dash air conditioning was on or off.
Another concern, 3 to 6 seconds after starting engine, another sound kicks in, maybe very normal, but don't know. Will have to listen to another rig. I did have someone at a campground say it was the noisiest rig (in general) they have heard. Sounds like a stick along a picket fence -- valve lifters(?). Cummins and another diesel shop never expressed any concern over the sound.

Herb

CC 36' Allure 2002 SN 30690

p.s. My slide is working great now. First it was a disconnected drain, then Guaranty in JC (while CC was on Christmas break) did not hook up the slide correctly causing a link to bend. Repair shop in Sacramento fixed that and now it pulls in straight and flush.

Re: Desert Storm

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1588
Hello Herb,

Could you tell me the name of the shop in Sacramento who fixed slide problem? I have a leaking hydralulic hose associated with my slideout. It is actually "seeping", a slow leak is more like it. I would like to check with this shop to see if they can repair my problem.
Ed

Quote
>

p.s. My slide is working great now. First it was a > disconnected

drain, then Guaranty in JC (while CC was on > Christmas break) did not

hook up the slide correctly causing a link to bend.
Repair shop in

Sacramento fixed that and now it pulls in straight > and flush.

Re: Desert Storm

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1591
Herb,

I don't know the status but I know that there were some defective connectors used by HWH on my slide. Leaked quite a bit but CC and my dealer took good care of the problem and any stains.

Dick May

2002 Intrigue, #11438
Member: CCI, FMCA
Dick May
2002 Intrigue, #11438, towing a
2014 Jeep Gr Cherokee ecoDiesel

Re: Desert Storm

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1592
Herb,

My engine also has a noise soon after starting from cold. Doesn't last long and I have no idea what it is? Has been like that ever since we bought the coach late last year.

Maybe someone here will tell us what is happening?
 
David & Karen,
2000 CC Intrigue 11062
40 ft. Gourmet on the Road

Re: Desert Storm

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1593
Is it possible you're talking about the turbocharger kicking in? Also, the hydraulic fan is delayed, but more than a few seconds.
Walt Rothermel
2003Allure30811

Re: Desert Storm

Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1594
Hi Herb,

My 2000 Allure with the Cummins ISC 330HP engine does the same thing. I think the change occurs when the oil pressure system comes to full pressure. It never changes after this once it is started. I changed the oil last fall and it took a little longer for the sound to change. I attributed the additional time due to the oil being drained and requiring additional time to come to pressure.

Dave G.

2000 Allure #30491

Re: Desert Storm

Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1598
The Cummins is an electronic engine and upon start up the electronics change the timing so that the engine starts easier, (less compression etc). Then once running it alters the timing to "run" thus you then hear the familiar smooth "diesel" sound....

Re: Desert Storm

Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1602
The Cummins engine is electronically controlled and the simple answer is that the electronics retard the timing of the fuel injection to
relieve compression for starting purposes, then when the engine starts, the electronics look at several things and advances the timing
to the "run" mode...thus what you are hearing is the timing change, when what I call the "diesel" sound kicks in.....the initial sound is
pretty rough, clattering and banging etc.....

That's my story and I'm sticking to it....

RAGARUE
Allure 30322, 36ft

Re: Desert Storm

Reply #20 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13713
Has anyone discovered the final cure for the fan controller issue? I've had the sensors replaced, CC even put in a new fan controller in May of this year....that simply caused the fan to stay in idle all the time so temps would go above safe limits while traveling over the short grades between Oregon coast and JC....called CC and they told me to disconnect the 6 wire connector from the fan controller. That caused controller to default to high speed which solved the temp problem but reintroduced the dust storm problem. I would like to know if anyone has solved this problem by getting a component replaced that actually makes the fan work as advertised so the the fan cycles into high speed when required and then drops back to idle as it should. I would prefer not to jury rig a baffle below the fan housing, I'd prefer a fix that makes the fan work as it should. I'll be visiting a service center in early January and would love to have a printed out message with the real fix to this on- going issue.

I've been reading old messages trying to find solutions to this problem and some are repeated below my signature.

Travman (Hondo)
2000 Country Coach Intrigue 11040
Purchased at Lazy Days January 21st, 2000
 

Re: Desert Storm

Reply #21 –
Yahoo Message Number: 13728
travman100,

I had CC fix the problem 2 years ago & it now works properly.
They replaced the controller & charged my a/c as they stated the controller was somehow tied in with the a/c unit head pressure. Not sure that your coach would be the same as they seemed surprised by how mine was engineered. Don't forget to shut off a/c prior to entering campground as that will cause the fan to go to high speed.

Happy with the results...........
Steve

Intrigue #10673