Skip to main content ↑ ↓
Topic: Countgry Coach quality (Read 936 times) previous topic - next topic
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Countgry Coach quality

Yahoo Message Number: 35046

After 32 years of RVing the reality we find is that most of the products and systems are used by many manufacturers and no one makes a completely reliable product. Se-Gi windows and all the other devices and products fail in other brands too folks. Country Coach installs the best available (or they try) but the suppliers don't offer bullet proof products at any price!
The list of everything that has been a problem with this particular coach covers most of the major product manufacturers, Dometic, Carefree of Colorado, Caterpillar, Koni, whoever makes the dash gauges, good old Se-Gi, Atwood (big supplier of numerous RV products and who made my entry door that had the window fall out), Suburban, Power Gear and more. Nearly every RV manufacturer uses the same products, they have never been reliable enough and I prefer to think of all the other products incorporated into my coach that HAVEN'T caused problems.
For the record - I don't consider anything that has gone wrong with out coach to be a result of poor design or manufacture on the part of COUNTRY COACH - it is all the suppliers. CC trys like h--- to make a good product and they DO stand behind it to a level we have not experienced with anyone else in 32 years!
It comes with the territory folks. The OEM RV suppliers like quantity over quality, always have and I don't see it changing any time soon; not until one or more RV manufacturers are wildly successful at selling a problem free product that people are willing to pay for. Until the RV manufacturers DEMAND quality from their suppliers it won't change and the number of such suppliers is not large. CC is the best manufacturer we have been able to find. I am an old time hot rodder and when I crawl around under and inside my coach I am amazed the quality I see from CC. The welds are beautiful, the robustness of the chassis is apparent, I wish could design something as well done.
Over our 32 years, at the end of every trip we end up with a list of things that need to be fixed or changed. We spent 3 months traveling this year and when I look at my list there isn't a single thing that needs to be fixed, just things we want to do to make the lifestyle even more enjoyable. I assure you I have never had a end-of-the-season list before that didn't include repair or fix items. This coach is officially debugged.
We love the lifestyle, accept the problems because it is the way it is and, frankly, we are glad, no delighted, the warranties are finished. It's a whole lot easier to just fix the darn thing than deal with all the folks and procedures and time you need to getting warranty work done. Good riddance!
And I KNOW that if I have a real problem I can turn to Country Coach for helpful assistance - and probably more. Because that is our experience with two CC coaches.

Bob Handren

'05 Country Coach Inspire 51178
'00 JGCL

Re: Countgry Coach quality

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 35058
Bob,

I could not have said it better myself. Every new RVer should read what you said because it is the real world we live in, and if you can't handle that you should stick to living in a house on solid ground. Coach manufacturing is not a big industry and the Japanese are not interested in this type of product assembly.
The other problem with this business is that most of us do not take the time to know what we are driving. We are driving trucks that are more complicated then commercial trucks and yet in about 40 states we do not need any special licence. Many of our problems are driver error but we don't admit that because we want CC to pay for everything. We also remember how things were and we think they are still that way, This is not your father's diesel, and I'll be the first to admit that I have screwed up some things that CC has paid for and their suppliers have screwed up some things that I have paid for. No different then going into a restaurant and paying for a bad meal, only a lot more money. We travel about 6 months a year, 4 in the coach and 2 via other means and we still prefer the coach even thought we get repairs after each trip. But so do the cruise ships and air planes we go on for other travel. We just don't see the work being done but we pay for it in our fares. My wife calls our 05 Magna "her check book sucker" but she still loves it.

Bill G. 2005 Magna #6425

Re: Countgry Coach quality

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 35061
Bob and Bill, Also I think by it's very nature most of what one hears at this site is the problems. We come here to learn for our selves how to do things. Not everyone has a ton of problems but when you add them all together in one place it is a slanted sample. Not to lessen the problems that some have but I wouldn't trade mine unless it was up to another CC. It never will be a perfect world.
Rich 5384

Re: Countgry Coach quality

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 35064
Bill

I agree with much of what has been said, but I have to take issue with some of the problems that people are encountering. For example, windows fogging up, leaking radiators/heater cores, leaking charge air coolers, water leaks, etc. are problems that the auto/truck industry solved many years ago. I recently stopped by a CC dealer that has new 06 CC products on his lot and you would not believe what some of the coaches looked like after spending a couple of winters and summers in the elements. The door window on an Intrigue was so fogged you could hardly see through it. As has been mentioned many times on this forum, I do not understand why CC sticks with SGI windows when they have had so many problems with creeping seals, fogging, etc . I realize that driving these units over today's roads is very harsh treatment, but reading this forum it appears the bulk of the problems can be attributed to be low quality components. If we were talking about $60-100K coaches I could possibly understand, but when one pays from one half to three quarters of a million dollars for a coach one should expect better quality. We have all heard horror stories from owners of other brands so this problem is not unique to CC, but across the industry there appears to be no correlation between cost and the quality of the end product.

Gene

Intrigue 10920

Re: Countgry Coach quality

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 35084
Quote from: Gene Clendenin\[br\
] >
Well said, Gene.

JF/06MAGNA/#6558

Quote
Bill

I agree with much of what has been said, but I have to take issue
with some of the problems that people are encountering. For example, windows fogging up, leaking radiators/heater cores, leaking charge air coolers, water leaks, etc. are problems that the auto/truck industry solved many years ago. I recently stopped by a CC dealer that has new 06 CC products on his lot and you would not believe what some of the coaches looked like after spending a couple of winters and summers in the elements. The door window on an Intrigue was so fogged you could hardly see through it. As has been mentioned many times on this forum, I do not understand why CC sticks with SGI windows when they have had so many problems with creeping seals, fogging, etc . I realize that driving these units over today's roads is very harsh treatment, but reading this forum it appears the bulk of the problems can be attributed to be low quality components. If we were talking about $60-100K coaches I could
Quote
possibly understand, but when one pays from one half to three
quarters of a million dollars for a coach one should expect better quality. We have all heard horror stories from owners of other brands so this problem is not unique to CC, but across the industry there appears to be no correlation between cost and the quality of the end product.

Re: Countgry Coach quality

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 35102
Gene,

The problems we have with our coaches is centered around where do you buy this stuff. I've been on 2 year old Prevost buses that have every window fogged up. Our coach windows are 4 years old and only 2 are slightly fogged. but we keep our coach in a garage. I notice when we take it out of the garage the windows are not foggy at all but when it is out in the sun the 2 front windows without awnings cloud up. I think the fogging problem comes from a combination of the sun, the earthquake effect on the road and the tint on the glass. The tint holds the heat and we have that same problem at our house in florida. We tinted a $2500 window and the seal went bad in 2 years. the manufacturer had a 10 year warranty on the window but not after tinting, the tinter covered the problem under their warranty but only up to $500, the window cost $2500 to replace. I'm not sure if there are any better window manufacturers in the RV industry and most do not use mirror glass. Besides, being the Worlds Finest Motor coach does not mean the best. If we look up the word Finest in Webster we see superior in quality, conception or design nothing about being the best. And superior in quality to what? the people with 1 million dollar coaches spend just as much time in the shop as we do. I don't know what the answer is but like management says this industry is 20 years behind the car industry so we may not see a solutions to some of these things in our life time.

Bill G. 2005 Magna #6425

Re: Countgry Coach quality

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 35105
Quote
spend just as much time in the shop as we do. I don't know what the answer >is but like management says this industry is 20 >years behind the car >industry so we may not see a solutions to some of these things in our life >time.
You WILL see it very quickly IF/WHEN prospective buyers stop writing checks for

known inferior products if the word gets spread effectively via forums like these.

Tom Fisher
Dallas

Re: Countgry Coach quality

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 35106

Bill, that is exactly one of the points I was trying to make. There are only so many RV equipment/components suppliers and until there is a REASON for them to improve, they won't bother. As nearly everyone in the business has been selling new RV units and parts as fast as they could make, where is the incentive? There must be a decline in business lately but the response is likely to scale back, not spend money to improve quality.
Also, if anyone believes the folks who run the day to day operations are interested in anything more than making their production and sales quotas they are naive. It is NOT their job to affect reputation or long term sales; that is upper management's decisions and worker bees will keep doing as they are TOLD if they want to continue working. If the UP says improve quality it will happen and not before. How long would a COO last if he spent millions (or whatever it would cost) to implement quality systems which would cause him/her to earn less money because the month/quarter showed a decrease in profit. Ain't gonna happen; losing income could be complete and permanent. Anyone wonder why Europe has more advanced cellular phone service? Because the industry is so competitive here they don't want to spend the money needed to upgrade ther infrastructure - and I don't hear users complaining - except me anyway. Ensuring investor returns is job 1!

Nobody is perfect, IMO CC is the best of the bunch.
Buying an RV is like deciding who to vote for in a political election. Personally I find I always have to vote for the lesser of the evils. It isn't perfect but it is about all we can do. Now that our rig is debugged it's a pleasure to use; actually, it's been a pleasure to use from day 1 except when it was being fixed under warranty. Now that it is essentially over for that phase we're all smiles driving one of the best coaches on the highway

Bob Handren

'05 Country Coach Inspire 51178
'00 JGCL

Re: Countgry Coach quality

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 35107

Currently the only way to be certain you are buying an RV with no problems is to not buy one and give up on the lifestyle. Whether we like it or not, and I sure don't, that's the way it is.
The post about the pros that the boat crowd can hire to go over watercraft before purchase is a GREAT idea. The first problem with doing a pre-inspection for a new RV is that several of the major systems are not readied for use until a sale is made; so this would require a dealer to agree to make the coach "deliverly" ready for use just so it can be inspected. That kind of dealer could be very hard to find because this would involve additional outlay of money and time for a unit the dealer is paying interest on. The goal is to move product ASAP, period. Even considering the dealer could make some money doing the warranty repairs he is still paying on the loan that bought it and he can make that warranty money anyway doing the work after the coach is bought and paid for. Also, assume all this is done and the potential declines the coach, having a unit prepared like this could cause some people to put it in the "used" category making it harder to sell to a new customer. The necessary financial advantages are not present in the RV industry for this to happen.
I'd love to change all this but even if I knew how it won't happen overnight, It took the US auto mfrs about 20 years to REALLY wake up and even they aren't perfect; manufactuers that most believe are the best can have quality problems. My stepdaughter has a relatively new (about 20k miles)Toyota minivan that had a sheet metal box like attachment device disconnect and fall off inside the door because of poor spot welds. And Toyota leads the world in (perceived) quality.

Bob Handren

'05 Country Coach Inspire 51178
'00 JGCL

Re: Countgry Coach quality

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 35112
From: Robert Handren rthandren@...>

Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 21:11:38

To:country-coach-owners@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Country-Coach-Owners] Re: Countgry Coach quality

Currently the only way to be certain you are buying an RV with no problems is to not buy one and give up on the lifestyle. Whether we like it or not, and I sure don't, that's the way it is.
The post about the pros that the boat crowd can hire to go over watercraft before purchase is a GREAT idea. The first problem with doing a pre-inspection for a new RV is that several of the major systems are not readied for use until a sale is made; so this would require a dealer to agree to make the coach "deliverly" ready for use just so it can be inspected. That kind of dealer could be very hard to find because this would involve additional outlay of money and time for a unit the dealer is paying interest on. The goal is to move product ASAP, period. Even considering the dealer could make some money doing the warranty repairs he is still paying on the loan that bought it and he can make that warranty money anyway doing the work after the coach is bought and paid for. Also, assume all this is done and the potential declines the coach, having a unit prepared like this could cause some people to put it in the "used" category making it harder to sell to a new customer. The necessary financial advantages are not present in the RV industry for this to happen.
I'd love to change all this but even if I knew how it won't happen overnight, It took the US auto mfrs about 20 years to REALLY wake up and even they aren't perfect; manufactuers that most believe are the best can have quality problems. My stepdaughter has a relatively new (about 20k miles)Toyota minivan that had a sheet metal box like attachment device disconnect and fall off inside the door because of poor spot welds. And Toyota leads the world in (perceived) quality.
Bob Handren

'05 Country Coach Inspire 51178
'00 JGCL

----- Original Message ----

From: Tom Fisher tboonefisher@...> To: Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 11:15:22 PM Subject: Re: [Country-Coach-Owners] Re: Countgry Coach quality

Quote
>spend just as much time in the shop as we do. I don't know what the answer >is but like management says this industry is 20 >years behind the car >industry so we may not see a solutions to some of these things in our life >time.
You WILL see it very quickly IF/WHEN prospective buyers stop writing checks for

known inferior products if the word gets spread effectively via forums like these.
Tom Fisher
Dallas

Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
 

Re: Countgry Coach quality

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 35188

Gene and Gene,

I am not on the side of the dealer to say the least. I was merely thinking out loud as to the possible barriers to being allowed to impose a complete inspection on any particular dealer based on the business models most follow - which is very similar to new cars - nothing is done to a vehicle before the sale unless they have no choice and feel it is worth the effort in order to sell the vehicle. It is an attitude that not a nickel is to be spent that isn't necessary. As the RV industry, at least until recently, has been able to sell every rig they could shove out the door within a few days and without a full pre-sale evaluation for defects there has been no incentive for them to change this attitude. Other than used coaches I have not, in 32 years of RVing, seen a brand new coach offered with all the systems filled up and running, with a thousand mile road test - unless it was a return which by definition is a used vehicle. Most dealers prefer to spend not a penny on an unit until it is sold - that's a fact and not just my opinion.
Of course you can refuse to buy under such circumstances, I have voted against businesses with my feet many times. But good luck finding a dealer that will do things the way you want. "You want this rig sir? Well, fine, please come over here and sign these papers! Then we'll do the predelivery inspection and walk through, you can then take the rig and fight with warranty to get all the "little" things fixed. Nice doing business with you."
Hey, all I am doing is trying to understand why a pre-purchase inspection as suggested by the boater isn't the norm - I have indicated what I THINK are some of those reasons and don't recall saying the dealer has a right to hide defects from us before the sale or that a prospective purchaser doesn't have the right to ask for such an inspection. It might happen but it wouldn't be the norm and I would be amazed that a dealer would do this for, say, a 20 foot trailer. If it happens at all it would be for the most expensive rigs where the greatest profits are likely.
If you can change the system please be my guest. As it isn't likely I'll be able to that by myself, I like to try and understand why the purchase process is the way it is and hopefully come up with ways to make it easier. If you would rather accuse me of being on the other side because I think some things out load all that accomplishes is the shutting down of dialogue and the making of arbitrary decisions - I prefer knowledge of the process and facts. Must be the scientist in me.

Bob Handren

'05 Country Coach Inspire 51178
'00 JGCL