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Paint blisters

Yahoo Message Number: 57466
I'm looking at a 2005 Inspire 330 with 12k miles. Although in almost factory shape, the exterior paint on the rear bedroom slide is showing very small paint blisters over the entire area.
My first thought was galvanic corrosion. If this is correct, how big/bad is the problem? Has anyone else seen this or had it fixed? And if fixed, how much did it cost to redo the panel? Any thing will be appreciated and thanks.

Aspiring owner in Oregon.

Re: Paint blisters

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 57471
Which slide on the rear is blistering? The drivers slides were built by a separate company under contract to Country Coach.
I understand that many of these slides cracked, I know that mine did and it did show some blistering.
CC said the slide could be repaired by any good collision shop. I got a repair price of about $6,000 from a shop in Sacramento then found out that CC had replaced slides on other Inspires so I argued with them to have the repair made which they did.
It took them a month to complete the repair at the factory. Cost to them was 84 hours of labor and parts.
Bob Cole

2005 Inspire 51394
Auburn , CA

Re: Paint blisters

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 57477
Bob & Aspiring Owner,

I've got the paint blisters on my bedroom drivers side slide but no evidence of any cracking to date. Bought mine just under 3 years ago and noticed it at that time. I don't think it's much worse now after 30,000 more miles. It's interesting to hear that CC had subbed out those slides. I've often wondered what could have happened to that one area that the rest of the coach escaped.
I've really enjoyed my Inspire and other than a nagging overheating problem (now solved) I haven't had anything other than the usual minor things that appear to be just part of motorhome ownership.

Good luck.
Tom

2005 Inspire #51334

Re: Paint blisters

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 59703
My last coach was a 2001 Monaco Dynasty with full body paint...It was darker colors...and blistering started in the paint about 3 years into it...I traded in 2007 for a new allure in brown tones and it is starting to show blistering...The darker area show more blistering...I think it is a problem with darker paints! If I did it over I would ONLY buy white's and creams...Walk any lot and really look at rigs...I just left the Oasis in Las Vegas and looked at every BRAND in the RV Park almost all rigs with darker tones showed blistering! Lonnie Simcoe
cc 2007 allure
31513

Re: Paint blisters

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 59704
I had a dark colored bus conversion before our current rig.
I found the dark colors a pain to keep clean. Hot and every blemish in the paint showed. Then it started to blister on the black areas.
No more dark colors for me either.

Bruce

2001 Intrigue #11278

Re: Paint blisters

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 59705
Darker colors absorb more energy from the sun so get hotter. That's the way it is.

--

Lee Zaborowski
07 Intrigue 12153
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Re: Paint blisters

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 59719
Quote

Quote
There are issues with the PTO, fiberglass and bedroom slides on the 2005 Inspire. Suggest you take the coach to Oregon Motor Coach in Eugene, have them give you an estimate for repairs and then consider how much to offer for the coach.
We love our 2006 Inspire, but wish we knew about the issues before buying.
Dennis Clayton, 2006 Inspire #51581

I'm looking at a 2005 Inspire 330 with 12k miles. Although in > almost factory shape, the exterior paint on the rear bedroom slide > is showing very small paint blisters over the entire area.
My first thought was galvanic corrosion. If this is correct, how > big/bad is the problem? Has anyone else seen this or had it fixed? > And if fixed, how much did it cost to redo the panel? > Any thing will be appreciated and thanks.

Aspiring owner in Oregon.

I

Re: Paint blisters

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 59720
This is sad for everyone who has purchase a darker unit. I am in the furniture business and the end user wants there furniture to last for ever!!(upper end)In the coach industry it is what they have conditioned you to except!!! Not exceptable at this level!

Lonnie Simcoe
07 allure 31513

Re: Paint blisters

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 59723
The sidewall on the driver's side bedroom slide on the 05 Inspire (daVinci floorplan) was defective, and the vendor went out of business. Mine cracked radially from all four corners. It was repaired by Lazy Days but cracked again. The paint was a mess. CC replaced the entire slide under warranty at the factory (under the watchful eye of John Davis - thanks JD!). There were other Inspires receiving the same fix while we were there.
I agree with Dennis. OMC can fix it, but I doubt it will be inexpensive. Subtract the fix from your offer.
If you have "checking"? paint, live with it. Sadly it is a common problem but is only cosmetic as far as anyone in this group knows. Well done, Corning.

Jay

05 Inspire daVinci 51457

Re: Paint blisters

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 59725
In 08 CC changed vendors for Allures. Intrigues, magnas and affinities are free of the problem, TWI
2004 intrigue 11731

Original Message:
-----------------

From: lonnie.simcoe lonnie.simcoe@... Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 05:02:50 -0000 To: Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Country-Coach-Owners] Re: Paint blisters

My last coach was a 2001 Monaco Dynasty with full body paint...It was darker colors...and blistering

started in the paint about 3 years into it...I traded in 2007 for a new allure in brown tones and it is

starting to show blistering...The darker area show more blistering...I think it is a problem with darker

paints! If I did it over I would ONLY buy white's and creams...Walk any lot and really look at rigs...I just left the Oasis in Las Vegas and looked at every BRAND in the RV Park almost all rigs with darker tones
showed blistering!
Lonnie Simcoe
cc 2007 allure
31513

Quote from: oregonrancher
>

I'm looking at a 2005 Inspire 330 with 12k miles. Although in > almost factory shape, the exterior paint on the rear bedroom slide > is showing very small paint blisters over the entire area.
 My first thought was galvanic corrosion. If this is correct, how > big/bad is the problem? Has anyone else seen this or had it fixed? > And if fixed, how much did it cost to redo the panel? > Any thing will be appreciated and thanks.

Aspiring owner in Oregon.

I

mail2web LIVE ? Free email based on Microsoft® Exchange technology - http://link.mail2web.com/LIVE

Re: Paint blisters

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 59729
Yes, cmarshall is correct . . . in part, I think. It was 2007 for Intrigue, Magna and Affinity and the paint is from Sikkens.

--

Lee Zaborowski
07 Intrigue 12153
----------------

Re: Paint blisters

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 59730

Every RV manufacturer that used fiberglass from Corning has the blistering problem. It is not a CC only problem. Corning blames the EPA making them change their manufacturing processes. Who knows the truth? I sure don't. In any case the only way to avoid it is to avoid dark colors and the sun. Stop blaming CC, they are truly the proverbial dead horse. ;-)

Bob (rthandren@...)
'05 Inspire 51178

Re: Paint blisters

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 59731
?
Bob,

Not to get picky but isn't the Corning problem micro checking? That is many small cracks about 1/4 inch long caused by a secondary curing process according to one version of the story. Now we seem to be discussing blistering. Is it the same?

Don Seager

2004 Allure 31046

Re: Paint blisters

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 59737

Don:

The problem is caused by tiny flecks of fiberglass that break away from the panel and rise up under the paint. There is no apparent pattern other than dark colors fail first (probably due to higher heat from the sun) and it is limited to the sides of the coach. It does not occur on the roof, end caps or some slides - it depends solely on the suppler of the fiberglass sheeting - if that is the correct term.
It is not a paint failure, it is a fiberglass failure. Not to be picky ;) but I have never understood how it became "checking" on this list. There is no geometrical or connecting pattern. Through a Google search I found a definition in an Army/Marine Corps paint technical manual (ARMY TM 5-5420-212-23MARINE CORPS TM 08676A-23/2 ): "Checking: This is the extension of hair cracking and covers the whole surface with a small pattern." http://www.tpub.com/content/landcombat/TM-5-5420-212-23/css/TM-5-5420-212-23_99.htm
There is even a nice photo with interlocking lines from cracks in the paint surface that looks nothing like what we have on our coach which are numerous tiny, many almost microscopic, blisters from glass fiber "pops" under the paint. We have no paint cracking or checking. It looks more like chicken pox than any kind of checking pattern and is not even visible unless you get very close or view a close reflection off angle from the body. I would consider checking to be much more noticeable than what we have. I have seen other brands of coach with true paint checking but not a CC with Sikkens brand paint.
Whatever we call it the problem is ugly and caused by a failure of the fiberglass supplied to a large segment of the RV industry for several years and for which Corning accepts no real responsibility.
From several personal expeiences this seems to be a pattern for some big companies including Corning, 3M and certain oil companies - to mention just a few.

Bob (rthandren@...)
'05 Inspire 51178

Re: Paint blisters

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 59741
One small corrections. Corning paid CC before the BK just over 750,000 for fiberglass failure. Look it up in the proceedings just prior to BK. Ask Mr. Howard where the money is now as he is the only one that knows.

Jim Spivey 31432 2006 Allure

Re: Paint blisters

Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 59756
?
Bob,

There is a reason it became know as micro checking/cracking. I don't have the benefit of seeing you couch up close but I have the problem and I have had a real close look at it on a number of other coaches. Under close examination each of what might appear as a blister has a short hairline crack in the paint about 1/4 to 1/2 inch in length hence the term checking/cracking.
At the time that CC was still in litigation with Corning, they would issue the owner a letter verifying the fact that your coach had the problem but you had to prove it to them. Many people had CC techs or CC dealers examine it before CC would issuing the letter. I sent a couple of very detailed photos of my problem to them and they agreed that it was micro cracking. What they wanted to see was those fine little cracks on the paint surface. I still have the letter from them.
My concern is that throughout the hours and hours of discussion, now several years ago, the hallmark was those cracks. No little cracks no Corning problem. Now I am hearing about blisters with no mention of the cracks. Could be the Corning problem but it also might not be. If it is the Corning problem then welcome to the club. If not then you and these other folks may have something else going on.
Just my recollections having been with it from day one. Others may disagree.

Don Seager
2004 Allure
Don:

Not to be picky ;) but I have never understood how it became "checking" on this list. There is no geometrical or connecting pattern.

Re: Paint blisters

Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 59769

Jim,

I know Corning offered a pittance to CC to make their lawsuit go away. Averaged out over the suspected number of coaches involved it would probably get each of us a detail job - not even a beginning of a solution. In no way does it mean Corning met its obligations to those of us who are suffering the consequences. The fact the Howards used the money to advertise Verandas (or whatever) is irrelevent.
I didn't mention it for that reason. There are lots of other bits of knowledge including some (very few) coaches were re-painted by CC. Doesn't change the basic situation.

Bob (rthandren@...)
'05 Inspire 51178

Re: Paint blisters

Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 59772

Hi Don:

I think it is clear multiple problems are occurring. Paint today is actually a plastic sheet that is very flexible. None of the fibers have pierced my paint but eventually some could. I think it is important to describe what is happening with each particular coach because it may be the paint or it could be the underlying material. Calling everything a paint problem, as as example, may be blaming the wrong supplier and on at least one level, isn't fair.
As near I can tell some of the slides with cracking that runs the entire side is from some new sheet material other than fiberglass that a CC contractor used for some coach builds. That isn't a Corning or Sikkens problem - it belongs to yet another supplier.
IMHO checking, blistering, cracking, fiberglass failure, etc are separate problems and shouldn't be lumped into one category or direction of blame. That's actually the ultimate point I was trying to make.
Assuming we ever have the opportunity to obtain relief for some of these problems (ha!) knowing who should be held accountable is critical. An accurate description also helps getting the right answers from those willing to offer advice. Otherwise we are just spinning our wheels.

Bob (rthandren@...)
'05 Inspire 51178

Re: Paint blisters

Reply #20 –
Yahoo Message Number: 59801
Hello All, Don Jones here with some answers to your problems. I am a retired Master Shipwright with 40+ years in fiberglass. The panels you are talking about are SMC extruded fiberglass panels. They are made from a Vinyl-ester resin and not poly-ester resin used in the mold process on the rest of your coaches.
Example: In a boat mold gel-coat is sprayed and then the fiberglass is applied. The same method is used for the front and rear caps in all MH's. The sides are built the same way. This is a good way to build parts and if the Poly-ester gel coat is sanded, a good Poly-urethane primer or epoxy primer is sprayed to the surface. Then a polyurethane top coat is applied it will last for many years to come. Whew! still with me? The smc panels are made from Vinyl-ester resin and are highly resistant to acid and chemicals including battery acid. The color is mixed in the extrusion process.
I have in the past painted the panel with a vinyl-ester tooling gelcoat. What I am saying is without the proper prep. no paint will stick the way a regular molded fiberglass panel will finish. All high end mega yachts are finished with this process and a polurethane paint is used for a high gloss.
The fix: Spray panel with epoxy primer and refinish. I would contact a major supplier of fiberglass...maybe Owens Corning, PPG for the correct primers.
These panels were never intended to be finished, hope this helps, Don __
 

Re: Paint blisters

Reply #21 –
Yahoo Message Number: 59803

Don, Wow, thanks for the info. This subject has been discussed a great deal over the last few years. I honestly don't know exactly how your description matches some previous advice but it sounds close in at least some respects. I don't remember the clear ID of the fiberlass type however.
The problem doesn't appear to be the paint not sticking to the panel or failing, it seems to be doing fine - at least on my coach. It is the tiny fiberglass pieces popping up through the gel coat but under the paint. Previous posters with knowledge have said the amount of primer plus other materials needed to stop this would add significant weight (=$$) to the coach and still not guarantee further fiber "pops".
Remember also that light paint colors seem to do fine, it is the darker heat absorbing/retaining colors that exhibit the problem with fiberglass failure. Light areas adjacent to the dark colors on the same panel appear just fine.
Any ideas on how to stop this problem with the underlying fiberglass?
If I missed the appropriate part of your post I apologize in advance. It would be nice to know of a repair solution that has a high degree of success potential; otherwise I am keeping my money and living with a poxed coach.
I have painted automobiles as pat of my hobby activities. I am beyond physically handling a ~40' motor coach but if I could demand the right products and work I'd seriously consider paying to have it done. So far no one has promised success.

Bob (rthandren@...)
'05 Inspire 51178