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Re: Quality

Reply #25 –
Yahoo Message Number: 4494
I sent a personal response to Per offering to provide our documents for his perusal so I will be very brief here. The problems we are having with our coach are not unique. Many people have contacted me with similar issues to ours. All have the same complaints: too many failures and CC doesn't fix them after multiple visits. Our documents have been files with both CC and our attorney. The documentation is from Country Coach's own repair records (yes, you should keep the copy that you get at the end of your week long visits to the factory!)

These aren't isolated problems folks, there are over a dozen of us that I have spoken to with these long lists of unresolved complaints with 2001 and 2002 coaches.

Regards,

Neil (11370)

Quote from: PER KORSLUND\[br\
]
Gary,

I wouldn't let one example turn you off to Country Coach. Although
we bought ours used, we are thrilled with the quality. I hesitate to comment on problems such as Neil describes, unless I can verify for myself. ...........Per

Re: Quality

Reply #26 –
Yahoo Message Number: 4575
Neil,

Your experience pretty much states what I have experienced with CC and the dealer. One thing which my service advisor at Lazy Days told me was that not to be optimistic about CC taking care of any problems once the year of warranty was up. He told me that CC was the worst of their manufacturers in that respect...he also told me that he had much more luck in getting help with customer complaints from Fleetwood than he did with CC. All this surprised me as I bought CC because of the "quality" reputation they had. It appears that this reputation only existed because most owners would not publicly state the problems they were having. I suppose it is the ego not wanting to admit that they had made a mistake and wanted to keep it quite so others would not know of their foolish mistake. That is only a guess, but I now know from speaking to many CC owners as I travel that they do make many lemons and that I just happen to be unlucky enough to get one with enough unfixed problems after many hours spent in service centers trying to get the things fixed. Yes, I admit it, I made a $250,000 mistake, I bought one of the "very few" CC which I consider to be a lemon. I am stuck with it but I don't have to smile and say CC is great anymore and I won't. I will tell anyone who is interested when I am traveling that CC once made a great mh but in the case of the one they see in front of them CC made a less than satisfactory mh. If CC had fixed the many problems I have with mine, I would probably have kept quite too as many other "satisfied" owners do. I still don't think that is the way to get CC to come around and stop turning out units that require the owner to spend the next several months traveling to service centers doing QC work which someone at the factory is already being paid to do. Is it asking to much to expect that a factory turning our a unit of this price should have decent QC people. Not in my book, maybe for some it is.

When are those foreign manufacturers going to see this golden opportunity to move in and take this market from those who turn out a product requiring so much repair off the line?
My Honda still runs great after three years with no repairs to date!

Quote from: garycase2001
> Neil,

I am amazed that CC hasn't simply swapped your coach out. I've

been

Quote
debating between CC and Foretravel, and have been leaning towards

CC,

Quote
but this message has me reconsidering this. It's clear to me from

a

Quote
couple of years of research that I need to plan on a few "growing > pains" for whatever coach I get - there was a good message on this > subject posted by Larry Hanson (msg #4393). However, presuming

this

Quote
message accurately describes your experiences, you have clearly had > the misfortune of acquiring a lemon coach, and CC shouldn't have to > be taken to court to recognize this.

The only experience I've ever had with a "lemon" was with a Dodge > Caravan in the early 90's. After several attempts to fix the

issues

Quote
(including replacing all 4 tires, the transmission, and several

other

Quote
items), the Chrysler regional representative came down, drove the

van

Quote
with me for 30 minutes, and immediately said he understood why we > were unhappy, and he wanted a happy customer, so I could choose any > Chyrsler product and trade in the van for full retail. No lemon

law

Quote
invocation necessary. We then decided to go with a more expensive > van, so actually wound up paying Chrysler a couple grand. Result: > satisfied customer; no lemon law suit; MORE $$ for Chrysler; and we > bought 2 more Chrysler products in the ensuing decade. Once they > proved to me they would stand by their products I had no

reservations

Quote
about doing repeat business. And this for a ~30k car -- one should > expect at least as much concern for a ~300k motorhome!! >

Keep us posted on how CC treats you on this - some of us potential > buyers would like to know.

Good luck,
Gary Case

[quote author=netucker"

> Folks:
>

> I'd like to share our experiences with CC and their quality. My

wife

Quote
and I own a 36' two slide 2002 Intrigue (#11370) that we took > > posession of in May of 2001. We were lead to believe that CC was

the

Quote
best quality coach made and our dealer (Guaranty RV) went to great > > lengths to demonstrate this.
>

> We have had this coach for 22 months and have put over 39,000

miles

Quote
(a

> large number of those miles were attempting to obtain repaires)

on

Quote
it.

> We purchased a country coach because of our intent to use it > > extensively and perhaps become fulltimers.
>

> So far we have had it repaired (or attempted to) over eighteen > times.

> The refrigerator has been replaced, we have had three inverters,

the

Quote
generator has been repaired twice, the surge guard had to be > replaced,

> the galley slide has been repaired seven times (none
successfully),

Quote
we

> have a mysterious coolant leak, there are cracks forming aroung

the

Quote
engine cover opening, we have had to have two paint blisters > repaired,

> we have been towed to Cummins for engine repairs, the entry step > > extends while we travel down the road, the door opens when we are > > traveling down the road (we keep the deadbolt locked always!), the > > inside step cover fails to work 50% of the time, the ride height > > adjustment valve has failed and been worked on multiple times and > now

> we have an air leak in the suspension system. And there are many > more

> items that aren't on my mind at the current time.
>

> All of the items listed above have been attempted to be repaired

and

Quote
except for the surge protector, the paint blisters and refer NONE

of

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the repairs has been successful! Now these repairs weren't done

at a

Quote
no name repair shop, they were attempted by those fine folks at

CC

Quote
in

> Junction City, OR. We made two trips from Yuma, AZ to Junction

City,

Quote
OR for repairs; we made at least two trips from San Jose, CA to > > Junction City for repairs; we made one trip from Chicago to

Junction

Quote
City for repairs; and, we had to make an emergency trip from

Boise,

Quote
ID

> to Junction City for repairs. Other repairs have been performed by > > various dealers, Camping World and one independent here in San

Jose.

Quote

> We have been attampting to get Country Coach to resolve some of > these

> issues since the coach was four months old. We were at a rally in > > Tucson where I spent two hours locked in a coach with Don Fults > > reviewing our issues and attempting to find a resolution. We were

in

Quote
Hutchinson, KS and were assured by Don Fults that we would have a > > resolution before we left Hutchinson. The reason you haven't seen > Don

> lately must be that he is still in Hutchinson as we have not

heard a

Quote
word from him regarding a resolution.
>

> Do I think Country Coach makes a quality product? NO. I am not

angry

Quote
at CC for the quality failures we have experienced (don't ask

Nancy

Quote
that question though!). As complex as these things are it is > certainly

> possible to build a monstrous lemon. I am disappointed that

Country

Quote
Coach has promised to address the issues and hasn't. All we

expected

Quote
was for CC to own up to their problems and to fix them. They > certainly

> welcome us to service but after repeatedly failing to repair an > item I

> expect them to take radical steps. They don't.
>

> Some people say that things will change now that Bob Lee is back.
> Well, we have spoken to Bob a number of times and we are still

stuck

Quote
with a broken $300K coach and lots of frustration. Don't get me > wrong,

> Bob Lee is a fine person and he knows quality is important. I just > > don't know if CC can survive the quality crisis caused by the

number

Quote
of sever problems a number of us with 2002 products have > experienced.
>

> We have finally given up on obtaining satisfactory repairs and

have

Quote
filed a lemon law complaint against Country Coach (we bought out > coach

> in California) requesting that they replace our coach. We have our > > first mediation date at the end of March 2003. Their attorneys are > > posturing right now but CC will loose this one based on the

volume

Quote
of

> our evidence from their own records. We are still struggling to > > discover what coach we want to replace our lemon Intrigue with.
There

> aren't any clear winners but Alpine looks good and maybe

Foretravel.

Quote
We really hate to leave Country Coach as we have made many great > > friends among the CC owners.
>

> We really like some things about CC (we were even attempting to

help

Quote
get the Rocky Mountain CC chapter started)but we are really > disgusted

> with the lack of quality in so many places within the company. I > > recommend that anyone considering purchasing a CC product really > grill

> the executives at Country Coach HQ as to what to expect from the > > product and from the company. Take lots of notes, you'll need

them.

Quote
And, don't expect any support from your dealer, once they cash the > > check they are gone.
>

> Sorry for the long note but this has been coming for a long tome

now

Quote
and I want to make certain folks know what they're up against. For > > anyone wanting more specifics about opur case, please contact us

at:

Quote
neil@n...
>

> Regards,
>

> Neil Tucker
> Intrigue 11370
>
>
>

Quote from: gdbettig@a...
> > CC QC is the best I have heard of Monco owners taking 3 years

to

Quote
debug a new
> > coach.
> >

> > It only took about 6 months for me 2 get everything squared

away

Re: ZipDee Awning

Reply #27 –
Yahoo Message Number: 4581
Robin,

Yes, I am sure it is quite enough for you because your main concern is selling not satisfying the customer after the sale. Ok, now you say after three years I should not be complaining but you failed to read the part which said that all these problems were there during the 1st days of my ownership of the coach. The problem is that they were never repaired during the 1st year even though I did my part and took the coach to repair facilities numerous times..so you think that CC should hang an engine on a coach and then should not help the customer get that component repaired when their supplier doesn't step up and repair it....you are living in a dream world...do you think that Boeing would have that same attitude with a component supplied to them for an aircraft built by Boeing. If they did, that attitude would quickly be changed by lawyers for their customers. BTW they don't have that attitude...that attitude only seems to be relevant to the RV industry where coach manufacturers attempt to wash their hands of a flawed component by then saying they only strap it onto the mh.
I can understandy why you are in sales...you want to earn money selling something but you don't seem to understand that you are also responsible for helping the customer you sold something to. I think that many salesman have your attitude...sell and forget it. Not only in the mh industry but in many industries that is the salesman's attitude. That's a sorry attitude if you want to have repeat sales to that same customer. It is in your best interest to follow up the sale with a relationship where that customer sends his friends to you and also returns to you in the future. Can't you understand that?

My complaints are all a result of warranty items not being fixed during the warranty period, not problems which cropped up after the warranty was up. However, I can see now why they just kept putting off making good repairs to the problems I identified. They obiviously never intended to live up to their promises to fix problems, only the easy problems were fixed, those requiring CC to actually spend their own money to fix were not fixed. Yes, blame Cummins or whoever else could be blamed but don't blame CC who, after all, chose to put the selected components in the units they build.

With your attitude toward customers problems with a product, I am surprised that you have lasted in the sales business. Satisfying customers is the biggest goal a salesman should have. I am easy to satisfy, I just want what I buy to do what it was advertised to do and not just what the salesman told me but what the printed material advertised it to do.

Don't try to gloss over customer complaints, fix them!

Quote from: Robin McCracken
> Ray!! Ok all ready!
> I sit here and read everyone's messages and try to remain silent, I

am in

Quote
sales and find this site very insightful with keeping me up on the

concerns

Quote
of our customers. Then I read messages like yours. I normally blow

them off,

Quote
but I don't know, maybe I'm getting crabby in my old age.
Threatening to go

Quote
to another brand of coach unless the factory takes care of the

problems a

Quote
three-year-old coach is having, WOW! >

Now I'm telling you up front, I am in motorhome sales (have been

for about 8

Quote
years), and yes it's true some of the Country Coach techs do have

this "old

Quote
world" attitude toward their product and customers. Believe me, in

sales we

Quote
run across this obstacle all the time. Most likely this is a great

reason

Quote
why their sales are down today.

But please, blaming Country Coach for this list of complaints.

1. Black smoke from the exhaust. Your motor is a Cummins turbo

diesel (what

Quote
's this got to do with CC?) > 2. Dust storm. Again Cummins

3. PAC brake. Maybe Cummins or try Allison (these transmissions

today are

Quote
programmable and tune well with PAC) > 4. ZepDee Awnings, I know CC installs them, but they don't
manufacture them.

Quote
5. Step cover. Yeah!! Finely, this is a Country Coach problem.

(Even thou

Quote
minor)

I don't want to keep picking on you about this list, but come on.

When you

Quote
consider all the amazing contraptions your coach has and the fact

that it is

Quote
going thru an earthquake every time you head down the road, can you

go with

Quote
me on this?

Guys, yes the parts and service dept is a pain to deal with. And

yes, I do

Quote
agree streamlining and efficiency is not their strong point, but in

general,

Quote
they do work hard and do for the most part a good job. Country

Coach has

Quote
been slammed the past couple of years hard, and sales have not done

the

Quote
best, maybe with Bob back things will change.

See, I sell their competition, now let's talk about problems.

I won't mention any names, I'm in enough trouble as it is, but how

about

Quote
having your tag wheels fall off while in transit, caused by poor

and missed

Quote
welding spots. This happened to one of my customers, I bet that

woke him up.

Quote
Or a slide-room not stopping when fully out and falling on the

ground!!

Quote
Windshields cracking in half when taking a right or left turn

(latter

Quote
finding out that the factory "forgot" to weld at 9 different stress

points.

Quote
Chassis busting in half, because they can't handle the tress of a

bigger

Quote
motor. Blowouts that happened because of under-sized tires. Roofs

splitting

Quote
in half (you think that would cause a leak) I can go on and on.

Now, these

Quote
are problems.

I have been to shows with Country Coach for years, and yes I hear

all the

Quote
problems, but please, try the other brands (I have done shows for

the other

Quote
products and have had people walking up to me with novels for a

complaint

Quote
list) and then maybe you can see were I'm coming from. The biggest

different

Quote
is that those companies have figured out how important it is in

taking care

Quote
of your customer (most of those customers with these "major"

problems are

Quote
still happy with their coach, amazing! Service got right on them, no > questions asked, and took care of it. Country Coach still has a way

to go.

Quote
>

Country Coach is not perfect by any means, and they would take a

lot of

Quote
pressure off themselves if they handled service issues better, but

they are

Quote
and have always been one of the best build motorhomes on the road.

Sorry, but I had to get this off my chest. You can hit me at the

next rally

Quote
I see you at. (Just once thou) >

Robin

(I sell Country Coaches)

Re: ZipDee Awning

Reply #28 –
Yahoo Message Number: 4582
Walt,

If any CC rep is monitoring these messages then I hope they read what you wrote. The problem I have run into is that each tech you speak with at the service number has a different recommended fix. Kevin tells me he will sell me baffles to fix the problem, another fellow there tells me he will re-program the controller if I send it to him.

So, I would like to know the OFFICIAL CC fix and then go with that.

Ray

Re: ZipDee Awning

Reply #29 –
Yahoo Message Number: 4588
Ray,
For what it's worth. Damon has helped me (I never bought anything from him.... never even met him -yet) with third party components as well as many others in this group.
Just had to say it.
Dick May

2002 Intrigue, #11438
Dick May
2002 Intrigue, #11438, towing a
2014 Jeep Gr Cherokee ecoDiesel
 

Re: Quality

Reply #30 –
Yahoo Message Number: 4592
I know it is insane to give unsolicted advice to an unhappy owner (I was there myself and have the T-shirt and the tattoo !!!), BUT, I was finally able to get rid of a whole bunch of nagging (and irritating) problems last year by taking my rig to Carrier and Sons in Eugene and giving them a list and leaving it there for a couple of days. It ended up costing me $1000.

The owner is an ex CC employee and is quite passionate (????) about CC rigs and has an encyclopedic knowledge of them. He especially seems to be "beyond" expert on Intrigues.

NOW FOR THE ADVICE:

What "I" would do is to take it to Carrier and give them a run down on all of the problems, then leave it there until it is fixed. THEN, I would take the bill to Bob Lee and request reimbursement.

I took my rig to outside shops to get cooling, ride height, and handling problemns corrected and CC was good about reimbursing me.
There were some things that they balked on, and I paid for myself (had to get a service call when fuel tank ran empty becasue the gauge was in error --- it had gel in the bottom of the tank and CC said they did not put any additives in), but I am satified that they have been fair.

There were many things that the factory did do under warranty and they were very helpful and more than fair on what they charged me.
BUT, they have limitations. I now feel comfortable that the combination of Carrier and a local Cummins shop, that has been good to me, will keep us enjoying many miles of "happy motoring" :-)

Chuck Gauthier
200 Intrigue 11142
La Quinta, CA

PLEASE DON'T BE UPSET AT ME FOR TRYING TO HELP BY GIVING ADVICE!!! I REALIZE THAT YOUR LEVEL OF FRUSTRATION IS EVEN BEYOND WHAT I EXPERIENCED AND I WANTED TO BEAT IT INTO LITTLE PIECES WITH A SLEDGE HAMMER!!!