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Bouncing on Hwy 90 out of Rapid City SD going East

Yahoo Message Number: 62127
Wow, "what a difference a day makes" (sung to the appropriate tune).
I wake up and sit down at my computer and see there has been a flurry of activity on this shock thing. As I read through the notes, I realize that there continues to be new information to consider and lots more to learn.
Most intriguing is the dampening issue on bound and now I am wondering if there is a slight chance my Koni's are (somewhat) defective even though they only have 15,000 miles on them (not logical, but possible). I do intend to call Koni today and get their input. Someone pointed out that while I feel little resistance to compressing the shock, the valving may be such that under strong movement there is more resistance than I can replicate. And Rich, I did note the reference to adjustment being specific to rebound. I intend to discuss that further with them as well.
Two things are becoming abundantly clear. Given bound dampening is minimal by design, ride height will be (is) the major contributor to solving bottoming out problems. And two, I do not want to lay out $800 for new shocks.

Stuart Thornton, 05 Allure, 31217

Re: Bouncing on Hwy 90 out of Rapid City SD going East

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 62130
Currently in Davenport, IA. Talk to a trucking repair shop about replacing the the shocks since I have a bouncing issue. They found the Road Kings in California, but they need to measure mine first. Then they need a couple of days for shipping. Since we need to move East, I plan Monday to have them try firm up the shocks is 1 full turn from max setting correct? have them raise the front end. Where can I find the info or procedure on coach height adjustment for a 05 Allure? Thanks for your comments.
John Tanzi 05 Allure #31281

Re: Bouncing on Hwy 90 out of Rapid City SD going East

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 62132
I just talked to Koni and we have a whole new ball game. You will recall I can compress my shocks fairly easily (bound), but have great resistance to extending them (rebound). Koni told me that if I have bottomed out hard in the past, and I have, I probably damaged or distroyed the Foot Valve and the shocks will need to be replaced. They do not tollerate the ram hitting the valve very well. He went on to say that there should be firm resistance in compressing the shocks.
It become increasingly important then to adjust the ride height up to not only help prevent bottoming, but just to save the shocks themselves. This is an "ahah" moment for me.

Re: Bouncing on Hwy 90 out of Rapid City SD going East

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 62135
Okay, here goes. The plot thickens even more.
I got a call from Jim Ryan, Sales Manager for Koni. He admits he does follow the forums, including this one, and says it's amazing how much interest the subject can provoke. He noted in my post below that I called Koni and becasue of what I posted, he called to correct information I got from technical support. Here is a synopsis of that conversation.

1. It is highly unlikely my shocks bottomed out. Shocks are spec's by Country Coach (any mfg) so the when the air bags are fully compressed and hitting the internal rubber bumpers such as in a severe nose dive, the shock minimum throw will not be exceeded.

2. Proper shock design for rv's will fall between 70/30 and 90/10 rebound/bound. The higher the bound value, the harsher the ride which is also the #1 complaint regarding shocks.

3. Shocks make little contribution to solving bottoming out issues. Ride height is the key to solutions.

4. When it comes to doing their jobs, the airbags work to resist upward wheel movement, the shocks on downward movement.

5. Koni shocks will move easily in compression at a slow rate of movement (by hand as I was noting), but the resistance increases substantially with rapid movement, as in hitting a bump. Hense the bound ratio is never zero.

6. Country Coach always leaned towards a soft ride. Koni and others encourage a firmer ride to improve handling and control. The SP1's that CC installed were a softer shock than the newer SP3's. A high adjustment setting on a SP1 is equivelant to a low setting on a SP3.

7. Because rebound dampening is better with an SP3, it is the best choice in solving bouncing problems without introducing a harsher ride.

Jim appologized for my getting less than accurate information from tech services. It was only for that reason that he got involved and ask me to post and help get the record straight, which I am happy to do.
So there you have it, straight from the horses mouth. What an education this has been.

Re: Bouncing on Hwy 90 out of Rapid City SD going East

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 62136
This is not new information. It has been said here many times and I have proven it on several coaches. CC's ride height is about an inch too low on a lot of the coaches. Read the previous on the subject. I have provided the logic and description of the whys etc. Shocks do not support the coach, the air bags do. Changing shocks to correct bottoming out may mask the problem if you use a stiff enough shock, but it does not fix it. If your coach bottoms out raise the ride height about an inch all the wy around it will be fixed.

Mikee

Re: Bouncing on Hwy 90 out of Rapid City SD going East

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 62139
Stuart,

I've found Jim to be straight forward in talking and emails. I think I would see how your current SP1's do on the highest setting or 4 our of 5, if you want to start at that point.

John,

The links file has a good write up on setting road heights for different CC front ends. Scroll down some.

Suart/John,

Mikee is one of the key posters I read, when I set my 04 Allure to the max side of the height setting. I'm going to leave mine at this setting for now, but may go to 1/2" above as my next move. When trying to solve the 'bottom out' problem, this setting is the key. This came from many great sources, besides just this board of 'real world' CC owner's too.
On Shocks - I found no feedback from multiple attempts from new Koni SP3 owners, from any coach owner of any brand or model. I went with the Road Kings, as the deal I made on buying our coach, provides a sub stantial 'kick in' on the cost of shocks as needed. So my actual costs for the Road King's was not too painful, and again - spread out over many years ahead. As mentioned ealier, Lonnie too is very passionate on the subject of shocks - I'm looking forward to my first few hundred miles of driving.
It's a fun subject. Not as fun as oil and Ford vs Chevy - but fun... And everyone will have a different priority on what is important to them, and how much they are willing to spend.
Best to all, look forward to more updates after your final setting and driving, Smitty

04 Allure 31017
04 Allure Sold to a nice new owner! Now enjoying a 07 Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600 #6775
"We're ONDROAD for THEJRNY!" (Toad and Coach license plates, say Hi if you see us!)

Re: Bouncing on Hwy 90 out of Rapid City SD going East

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 62142

Mikee:

I get the impression no matter how many times you/all of us post about the major importance of the ride height adjustment some folks either don't read it or ignore it. What you just posted in the most concise description yet particularly for those who seem to insist that shocks will solve the problem. They will not; they are a separate issue.

Bob (rthandren@...)
'05 Inspire 51178

Re: Bouncing on Hwy 90 out of Rapid City SD going East

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 62143
Please, no shooting at the messanger Mikee. I was restating everything Jim told me and not presenting anything new. I thought it would be effective to try and summarize and put it all into one post as a general reference tool. Sometimes it is hard for folks to remember bits and pieces from a variety of different posts and make sense of it all.

That was my intent anyway.

And thank you for all the great contributions you make Mikee. I am definitely a fan.

Stuart, 05 Allure, 31217
 

Re: Bouncing on Hwy 90 out of Rapid City SD going East

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 62305
The front ride height valve had failed, his was causing the bouncing. Had the shocks firmed up and increased the ride height, MUCH better ride except for the pot holes. Highway 90 is something else, counted at least 7, ten miles sections of concrete being ripped out? It's amazing they wait so long to replace Highways. 48K miles on the shocks and they seem to be OK Thanks for all the help.

Outside of Chicago, heading East.
John Tanzi 05 Allure