Engine stutter

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Engine stutter

December 29, 2010, 10:20:33 am

Have a 99 Allure, ISC 8.3 engine with 153,000 miles. The last couple of weeks it has developed a problem. When I come to a signal light that has just turned red and have to wait a bit for the green, I make it across the intersection and it stutters. Its as though the key has been turned off for 2 or 3 seconds. catches and away we go. Yesterday while going south on I-5 just north of Sacramento, Hit a deep pot hole coming off if a bridge. The coach rebounded so hard it pulled the leveling rod out of its holder. The front end started bouncing so bad that it was a little hard to control to brake and find a place to pull over. Made a small ramp with boards for the right front, drove up on it, under the coach I went and put the rod back in its holder then backed off the boards and put them away. This may have taken 10 minutes and the engine was running all this time. Found a break in the traffic. got on go pedal, moved about 40 yards, sputtered and died. Was able to get back off the road. Tried to restart.no luck. Checked the water seperator and it looked normal. For 45 minutes I went through the start procedure when the filters are changed. On start. Sat in the recliner for a bit to ponder and rest. Called Coach Care to see if they could had advice. They took information and ask me to hold for a tech. While on hold, decided to try again, it started! Put it up to 15000 hundred for a bit, sounded good so took off. Thanked Coach Care and then pulled into Flying J on down the road. Started back up on our way. Had to stop at 7 red lights later. Each time I put it in neutral and keep it 15000 RPM. Took off nornally each time. Sorry, have not typed this much in years. Question, have any of you had this engine stuttering problem? If so, cause and fix. Thanks

Bill Dane

99 Allure 3032

Re: Engine stutter

Reply #1 – December 29, 2010, 11:27:12 am

Yahoo Message Number: 66889

Have your fuel transfer pump pressure checked. Sounds like bad fuel pump or dirty filters.

Leonard Kerns
97' Magna 5418

Re: Engine stutter

Reply #2 – December 29, 2010, 11:29:10 am

Yahoo Message Number: 66890

Check your battery connections and make sure they're tight and clean. This same thing happened to me last year and that was the problem.

Dan 06 Intrigue 11936

Engine stutter

Reply #3 – January 01, 2011, 10:48:13 am

Yahoo Message Number: 66989

Dan, Dean and Leonard, thanks for your responding to engine shut down problem. Made it to Cummins Coach Care in Bakerfield, CA. Started coach up to drive into shop. Did a walk around to make sure it was ok to move. About the time I made it all the way around, it died. Tech could not get it to restart. Hooked up his computer and got a reading of low fuel pressure. Looked under the coach and there it now fuel dripping in the pavement. after 153,000 miles, the ulsd fuel has gotten to the lift pump..Enstalled new pump, both fuel filters and the aiair filter and bsck on the road again with a lighter coach. No, now that I think about it, it's only the bank account that is. This is the first time the coach has failed and left us in the side of the rosd. I now know how others feel being stranded on a interstate with trucks going by. Not a fun experience.

Bill Dane

99 Allure 30326

Re: Engine stutter

Reply #4 – January 01, 2011, 11:12:20 am

Yahoo Message Number: 66990

Glad you are back on the road, and that you have helped to stimulate the economy!!
ULSD - I know a gent that has two older work trucks, and his RV, and adds additives to help offset the change to ULSD. Did this come up when you were having your repairs done?

What are yours, and otehrs, thoughts on ULSD and fuel additives?
(Nope - I did not do a search, and probably will do so now. Also not trying to rip off your post. Felt it was relative...)

And HAPPY NEW YEARS to you all,
Smitty

04 Allure 31017

Re: Engine stutter

Reply #5 – January 01, 2011, 11:51:05 am

Yahoo Message Number: 66993

The lift pump was the cheaper of the fuel system. I always run additive in my 97'. It has the older Bosch mechanic injection pump. Rebuilt injection pumps on the job for a time. Understand the damage they can have with all the lubrication removed. A lot like draining all but 2 quarts of oil out of and engine and then running it hard. Not going to last long. I think all diesels need additive, but for sure anything before the early 2000's need it as they were not designed for the fuel they are burning now.

Had a big discussion on the some time back on this forum. Some think additives are a waste. To each there own. I just have to answer to me and my pocket book. Fuel additive is like anti-freeze. One can run without anti-freeze, if one stays out of cold and do mind the rust/ corrosion and the little tiny holes that will appear in the cylinder liners that will eventually allow water into the oil. Additive is cheap the way anti-freeze is cheap because it stops very expensive damage.

Leonard Kerns
97' Magna 5418

Re: Engine stutter

Reply #6 – January 01, 2011, 05:52:55 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 67010

I think that if there was a single fuel additive that provided real benefits there would be at least one independent laboratory test that supports those benefits. In the absence of such a report I cannot take the word of the manufacturer that they can help.

George in Birmingham
'04 Allure 31038

Re: Engine stutter

Reply #7 – January 01, 2011, 06:34:23 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 67018

Any ideal how many years Amsoil was the only maker of synthetic lube. How many nay sayers there were? Now look at the number of oil companies who offer synthetic in some form, even advertise it on the TV. As the effects of these new no lube diesel fuel become more apparent, it will take some time, watch the same thing happen. Everyone will offer some kind of additive to replace the lube.

The effects of poor lube is extremely expensive. To the point of destroying pistons. Adding back lube is extremely cheap. I have personnel rebuilt enough fuel injections systems and tested enough nozzles to know of what I speak. Even if I had a brand new engine, I would choose to use additives. Many failures will never be linked to bad fuel. Bad lube takes time to show up. Injection system are under extreme pressure. They will take it for awhile, then one starts to have bad performance, hard starting, smoking, fuel milage drop. Then nozzles start to go bad. Maybe engine knock. All that will be contribution to just normal wear and tear, never lack of lube in the fuel.

I was assigned to rebuild a diesel that was said to have rods out. Torn into it and found nothing to indicate bad rods. Grab the nozzles and tested. Several were no longer spraying in a mist but like a big squirt gun. Those bad nozzles were making the engine knock as rods were out. Installed new nozzles, ran engine on dyno, ran perfect. Put out rated hp. Saw this more then once. Instead of pulling nozzles and testing, the knock had to be rods. Lots of good money has been wasted just like this.

The older the engine the more it desperately needs additives. But to each there own. Do not have the energy or desire to try to change everyone's mind.

Leonard Kerns
97' Magna 5418

Re: Engine stutter

Reply #8 – January 01, 2011, 10:03:02 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 67031

Every drop of ULSD fuel consumed in the US market must meet a lubricity standard. In order to meet that standard all fuel jobbers add lubricity agents. In other words the lub is already replaced.
Is there any evidence that fuel injection pump or injector failures have increased since ULSD has been introduced? Wouldn't you really expect that any additive producer who could PROVE his product worked the best, or at all, would provide that evidence where it would be easily found.
And finally, I keep hearing of the lift pump failures caused by ULSD. I guess it is possible but both Cat and Cummins deny there is ay increase in pump failures. It is not like there were no lift pump, injection pump or injector failures before the new fuel.

I am open to evidence but I have not seen it yet.
And your reference to Amsoil reminds me of some history that I have with the Amatuzio brothers(founders of Amzoil). Many years ago I docked my boat next to theirs at the Lakehead Boat Basin in Duluth, MN. Without boring you with the long story I will just say that they are among the most obscene talking vile humans that I have ever crossed paths with. Thus I don't have a long purchase history with their products.

George in Birmingham
'04 Allure 31038

Re: Engine stutter

Reply #9 – January 01, 2011, 11:51:26 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 67039

George,

Don't go to Italy. Greece either. Or bring ear plugs if you do.

Rich 2002 Magna

Re: Engine stutter

Reply #10 – January 02, 2011, 11:55:59 am

Yahoo Message Number: 67048

A few of us with 2004/3 Intrigues with ISL 400 have had issues with our fuel pumps having to have the pump section replaced. I was also told by my new extended service contract people its becoming quite common. The shop where I had mine replaced was A Cummins facility and one of the higher ups from the Rocky Mt. region said yes they were having issues. But nothing out of the ordinary. All I know was they had to go to another dealer in the North east for the part as the factory was out of new replacements and only had a few rebuilds. When I asked what caused the problem the tech was quite sure that contamination had slipped thru the filters and caused the ceramic pistons to wear, thus allowing the high pressure fuel to contaminate the engine oil. Causing my oil pressure to drop from 45 lbs indicated to around 15 lbs.
I had similar issues with my 7.3 liter diesel Ford when Clinton change diesel fuel parameters in the 80's . So far everything is OK with the 5.9 L diesel in my pickup. The 5.9 engines have had issues, too; but, it's mostly been because of the fuel pump failing which starves the injection pump causing it to fail, $$$$$$$$.
TWI 2004 Intrigue 11731

Re: Engine stutter

Reply #11 – January 03, 2011, 10:48:22 am

Yahoo Message Number: 67069

Thanks for Sharing happend to me a couple of years ago, Rig then had 60k miles on it but is a 98 engine model year. Welcome to the replace the Lift Pump Club! As a retired Cat Tech I opted to replace the whole pump not the seal. Ken 99 Allure 30356

Re: Engine stutter

Reply #12 – January 03, 2011, 10:53:42 am

Yahoo Message Number: 67070

Hi Friend, At Cat School we were taught only fuel stabilizer!to be added to fuel. In colder ststes the oil company's added antifreeze fuel gel additives. Call your dealer and run this by them. Ken 99 Allure 30356

Re: Engine stutter

Reply #13 – January 03, 2011, 11:21:24 am

Yahoo Message Number: 67076

Retired from Cat Three years ago and I can tell you first hand! no on the ULSD! We have fleets of trucks Cat Diesels, Rentals and Thousands of Enduser's! Trust me they would not make a fuel to fail Fuel Inj. Pumps or Common Rail Injector's! Feel free to run this by your dealer! Ken 99 Allure 30356

Re: CAT People who own a Cummins power plant!

Reply #14 – January 03, 2011, 11:30:07 am

Yahoo Message Number: 67078

I am asking this in a friendly way I hope. But honestly, what do you Cat guys honestly feel about your Cummins engines? What are the strong points, the week points? I know the Engineers at CAT our sharp, so Why did CAT choose not to build engines that could pass emission standards over the road? How are the new off road regulations in California going to effect CAT? TWI 2004 intrigue 11731

Re: Engine stutter

Reply #15 – January 03, 2011, 01:18:48 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 67085

Thanks for sharing, I too have the 98 era Cummins and you made me think that all we can do for now is sample oil and watch the oil level in the oil pan. Some older Cat engines had a gear driven fuel trensfer pump on the Front Gear housing, This pump had a weep hole for if a seal faild it would drain on the ground not in the oil pan. To Bad Cummins did not do this. I worry as our rigs get older like mine 11 years now those 40 some foot fuel supply lines will fail and hopefully the fuel filters will catch it. Dont want to go there yet. Funny I had a cust. years ago plug the weep hole and the crankcase filled up with Fuel. Thanks for sharing Great Post FYI Ken 99 Allure 30356

Re: CAT People who own a Cummins power plant!

Reply #16 – January 03, 2011, 01:55:07 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 67090

A CAT tech at a FMCA rally said that with the downturn in the RV Industry and the fact that they do not have specific truck line to which they can sell their over the road engines the company felt they could not sell enough engines to justify the cost of developing and certifying a new engine.

Dan 2006 Allure 31348 C-9

Re: CAT People who own a Cummins power plant!

Reply #17 – January 03, 2011, 03:52:37 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 67095

Dan, I'm not sure what the question is about CAT engines, but it has been general knowledge among RVers with CAT engines, and especially CAT RV Club members for well over a year, that Caterpillar was stopping production of over-the-road engines.
Nevertheless, some engines are still in production for off-road applications. Also, Caterpillar has a long standing corporate policy of providing parts and service for all engines ever built by the company. I have hear stories of the company servicing engines that had not been manufactured for 50+ years.
We CAT engine owners feel pretty secure we can count on Caterpillar. And the CAT RV Club is alive and well, and membership is only $15! ;-))

--

Lee Zaborowski

07 Intrigue 12153, Cat C-13

Re: CAT People who own a Cummins power plant!

Reply #18 – January 04, 2011, 09:41:06 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 67131

Thanks Lee, Great Post! Hi Friends and Cat Owner's, Working for Cat in Tampa Ringpower Store and in Miami's Pantropic all my life, I knew before most of you found out about Cat getting out of the over road Power System Biz! I can only be careful of what I say and Know about this. I can say You will get 1000 percent product support now and in the future. At the present time Cat builds Marine, Power Generating and Ind. Power Systems and has no plans of moving away from this. I can not go into details. The over the road emissions is part of the Issue. I had a sad day when I heard this as Ringpower was in the early stages of building RV Bays and a Lounge for us RVer's. I met a tech last year and he said Cat is joining forces over sea's with builder and he said perhapps one day a over the road Diesel Engines. Cat is Global and is not going away. Enjoy your Cat Product and again you will get support. My Allure has a Cummins 8.3 and I get teased a lot on this. The price of a 9 year old coach and in great shape is the reason I bought it. Both power plants ar good. Safe Travels Fellow owner's! We say if it's not a Cat it's a Dog! Ken 99 Allure 300356

Re: CAT People who own a Cummins power plant!

Reply #19 – January 05, 2011, 10:35:50 am

Yahoo Message Number: 67150

I have a general question about my Cat engine. I purchased my 05 Magna last summer. It seems to run OK with no smoke. I'm wondering if I should have Cat run a diagnostic test on the engine to see if I'm getting full boost, as I cannot get over 6 mpg no matter how conservative I drive. It has the c13 engine and is 42'. Thanks for the input. John 05 Magna C13- 6456.

Re: CAT People who own a Cummins power plant!

Reply #20 – January 05, 2011, 11:57:10 am

Yahoo Message Number: 67157

Hi John. There are lots of variables to the whole MPG result. I also have a C-13 in my 07 Intrigue and am now in the mid to upper 7 MPG range. I have not seen a report of over 8 MPG on our kind of rigs, but you never know. Here are my observations and comments, based on my experiences.
* I too drive conservatively, but what is 'conservative?' Our engine/transmission set-ups (4000 Allison on mine) are likely very similar. I can get up to 46 PSI boost. I usually run at 61-62 MPH, in 'Econo Mode' and try to never drop out of 6th when rolling along.
* My 40' coach weights around 42,000 lbs, yours probably a lot more.
* At 10,000 miles I was getting MPG in the 6's. Now, around 35,000 miles and with improved driving technique, my MPG has slowly climbed into the mid to upper 7 MPG range.

* I have two articles on conservative driving I can email you.

* You should join the CAT RV club, go to http://www.catrvclub.org/>

--

Lee Zaborowski

07 Intrigue 12153, Cat C-13

C-13 CAT Millage

Reply #21 – January 05, 2011, 04:50:24 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 67164

Hi John:

Notice that I have changed the subject line. Hope you don't mind.
There is another group that you may have an interest in joining. Very good group and for the most part, CAT specific.
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/CATRVCLUB/
I would call the CAT Hotline 877-777-3126, with your engine serial no. and ask if you have the latest software. If you haven't had the radiator antifreeze checked or replaced it's time. And it's also time to replace the thermostats. Then perhaps decide if a trip to the dealer is needed.
For me 6 mpg for the Magna is not so bad considering the weight of the coach and possibly towing a vehicle. My '05, 40' Inspire with the C-9 weighs 38k lbs with toed. 6.5 mpg is about my average. There are just so many variables that, as they say, 'your results may vary'. I'm not sure, but doesn't the '05 Magna have a boost display on one of the instruments? Others, I'm sure will comment.

Safe Travels

Gil Bourdon
'05 Inspire
51322

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