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LP Refrigerator Fires

Yahoo Message Number: 76817
Greetings campers,

There have been many messages on this topic recently and it appears a fair number of coach owners are bailing out on LP powered refrigerators.
It seems to me that LP fridges have been around for a long time. Are they inherently unsafe? If so, why is the technology still so widespread? Why aren't there negligence lawsuits?

Are fires caused by improper installation? Operation? Maintenance?
Does anyone know of telling signs of impending failure? In other words, can I inspect my cooling unit, looking for something that would compell me to shut it down to prevent a fire? What exactly is it that fails? (I searched the messages for this, unsuccessfully.)
I'm inclined to stay with my Norcold 1200, but I'd like to do more to ensure my own safety, short of conversion to a Samsung, with all of its own associated problems.

Thanks!
Jay

05 Inspire 51457

(Norcold recall installed)

Re: LP Refrigerator Fires

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 76820
Jay, your points are worth revisiting. When I owned a Monaco motorhome some years ago this topic was frequently discussed with concerns the same as we read about today. So, in March, 2008 I collected some reports, studies, and guidelines, which I think answer some of the questions. I have posted that information in the files section as AMMONIA (NON-RESIDENTIAL) REFRIGERATORS.doc.
I hope you find this information useful. It is just a relevant today as in 2008.

Lee
--

Lee (leozbrowski@...) 2007 Country Coach Intrigue 12153
CAT C-13

Re: LP Refrigerator Fires

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 76821
Hi Jay - This specific 1200 unit, has had very high volumes of postings and discussion on many RV boards. Heck, on RV.Net, and IRV2 - almost as many posts as Chevy vs Ford:)!
Google Norcold and Lawsuit, and you will get many hits, so this is going on.
I spent about the same price of a new fridge, replacing the main risk area of the 1200, the cooling unit. Added many extra cooling fans, as well as the mentioned SS-30 extinguisher.
I'm not an expert, but I've four decades in aerospace so have exposure to proper engineering and quality assembly. After my research, I decided to not trust the Norcold recall band aids.
It is my opinion, that anyone with a 1200 unit. Should either replace the cooling unit, or replace the full fridge. We went the cooling unit route, as we liked the size and wanted to retain LP.
Everyone makes their own risk assessments. It always amazes me to walk in a parking lot and see tires on cars that are in such bad condition that I would not drive on them. Many people just either don't care, or know, the danger involved from many different areas...

Best to all,
Smitty

04 Allure 31017
04 Allure Sold to a nice new owner! Now enjoying a 07 Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600 #6775
"We're ONDROAD for THEJRNY!" (Toad and Coach license plates, say Hi if you see us!)

Re: LP Refrigerator Fires

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 76823
Lee,

My apologies to you. I mentioned other boards, and all of the postings related to the 1200 and general LP fridges. Your write-up is one of the one of the better ones I read on the subject. I honestly forgot that it was on this board, and by you:)!
I did not research the 1200's, until we bought our Allure - no need to before this...
It is a good informative read, with good basic items to check on a regular basis for any LP fridge.
Smitty

04 Allure 31017
04 Allure Sold to a nice new owner! Now enjoying a 07 Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600 #6775
"We're ONDROAD for THEJRNY!" (Toad and Coach license plates, say Hi if you see us!)

Re: LP Refrigerator Fires

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 76832
Very interesting read on the Norcolds. We rarely boondock, so most of the time we are hooked up to shore power. My question is if only electric is used, do the Norcolds still have the same problems?

Tom 2005 Inspire
51177

Re: LP Refrigerator Fires

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 76833
Quote
Quote from: Tom Coomes

Tom,

Three answers to your question: Yes, absolutely, and without question.
Lyle Wetherholt
04 Intrigue 11740
> Very interesting read on the Norcolds. We rarely boondock, so most of the time we are hooked up to shore power. My question is if only electric is used, do the Norcolds still have the same problems? >

Tom 2005 Inspire
51177

Re: LP Refrigerator Fires

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 76834
Concur with Lyle. Tom - your unit may never have a problem. The risk, is that if it does have a failure, it may be the kind that causes a fire. A few gents on RV.Net, after reading about several of us adding the SS-30 Automatic 165f Extinguisher, decided to go that route.
If your unit is in a slide, then venting may not be adequate, so adding in additional cooling fans may also help prevent over heating stress on the unit.
I wanted to 'get this behind us' for I hope the long haul, so went the Amish cooling unit swap out. However, I feel a prudent 'risk minimizing' and economic reasonable response to this would be: -Full inspection (looking for rubbing tubing, shavings, dust build up, etc.), and recall 1 only, maybe 2 but not 3 (My opinion.) -Add PC's pancake fans (forget the model we used, but search on RV.Net will find my posting on what I, and others added.) You can set two of them in the back cabinet, with one on at all times the fridge is on, and have the second set to a small switch, that you can turn on from the access panel, if in extreme heat situations.
-Add SS-30 Automatic 165f extinguisher, back of cabinet -Add normal battery powered (recommend lithium 9V battery), back of cabinet
Recalls are free, and whomever is doing this, should be able to add the balance of the above without removing the fridge from the cabinet. Going form memory, less then $300 for all of this.
IMO - this provides good preventative steps via added cooling, and just specific housekeeping maintenance. And, if your specific unit does have an internal flaw causing in a fire out break - the automatic extinguisher provides the safety margin. Then, it's replacement time of your choice.
I want to repeat something I said in an earlier posting, I'm no expert. But I feel these steps are a 'must do' - if you are going to retain the unit as is. And again in our case, because we wanted LP, and feel the fridge serves us well - we went the extra steps of replacing the cooling units.
IMO - THIS IS A SAFETY ITEM THAT WARRANTS EXTRA PRO-ACTIVE COUNTER MEASURES.

Best of luck to all, be safe, and have fun, Smitty

04 Allure 31017
04 Allure Sold to a nice new owner! Now enjoying a 07 Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600 #6775
"We're ONDROAD for THEJRNY!" (Toad and Coach license plates, say Hi if you see us!)
 

Re: LP Refrigerator Fires

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 76835
Tom

My coach has two cooling fans from the factory in the vent stack.

Dan 2006 Allure 31348