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Topic: Exahust - Black Smoke @ Altitude (Read 1149 times) previous topic - next topic
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Exahust - Black Smoke @ Altitude

Yahoo Message Number: 80012
Friends,

After having Charge Air Cooler replaced recently and coach running great at altitudes up to around 4,000, with no black exhaust smoke at acceleration from stop or re-acceleration from a slow down, today I enter into New Mexico and Colorado 6,000 - 8,000 and now see excessive black exhaust smoke at acceleration and re-acceleration.

Would altitude be a cause? Cummins ISL 370HP

thanks, Mike 03 Allure 1st Ave. #30898

Re: Exahust - Black Smoke @ Altitude

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 80015
Do you have a turbo boost gauge. Sounds very much like you have lost turbo boost. Could be a simple boot or hose has come loose after the work was done.

Leonard
97' Magna
5418

Re: Exahust - Black Smoke @ Altitude

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 80016
Leonard, thanks, Silverleaf shows same boost I've been getting prior to Altitude, and I crawled around coach and checked all the Boots, but to hot to try tightning them, we'll do tomorrow AM...they are new boots so could have had some expansion of Bands.

Thanks, Mike 03 Allure 1st Ave. #30898

Re: Exahust - Black Smoke @ Altitude

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 80026
Mike,

My ISL always smoked at high altitudes. I really doubt you have a problem. I wouldn't worry until I saw the smoke at lower altitudes.

George in Birmingham
'03 Magna 6298
George in Birmingham
2003 Magna 6298

Re: Exahust - Black Smoke @ Altitude

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 80028
George & Lenard, thanks that gives me some piece of mind. This AM I tightned all (4) BOOTS, one of which was rather loose. I didn't see any signs of soot exposure leading out of BOOTS or any visable signs on my CAC.
So I'll do as you say and continue on and see if disappears when I get down to 3,000ft and below. It didn't show any Black Smoke at Amarillo which I think is around 3,000ft.

Mike 03 allure 1st ave. #30898 ISL 370

Re: Exahust - Black Smoke @ Altitude

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 80031
Mike,

Black smoke is almost always the result of too rich a file mixture. Since it happens at altitude, I'd suspect the air filter. At higher altitudes there is less oxygen in the same volume of air so, more likelyhood of black smoke. If I'm going mountain climbing I put a fresh air fiter in even if the one in it isn't very old. I save the 'not too old' one for when I get back down.

Greg

'03 Intrigue 11571

Re: Exahust - Black Smoke @ Altitude

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 80032
My '98 Cummins will smoke lightly sometimes at lower RPM's if the engine is beginning to lug between the higher gears just before the down shift. Also, when up shifting under light throttle pressure, especially when climbing. The smoking seems to be slightly exacerbated if I leave the Alisson in "Economy" mode. Of course, in this mode the engine up shifts at lower RPM. A Cummins engine tech/rep at an FMCA seminar told me that this is nothing to worry about unless you see "billowing" clouds of dense black, blue or white smoke. He said all diesels will smoke sometimes.
I do not recall him mentioning altitude as a factor but no one asked the question. I have not noticed any difference that I could attribute to altitude through the western mountains of CA, OR or WA.
Daron Hairabedian, 98 Allure 30226

Re: Exahust - Black Smoke @ Altitude

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 80036
Greg, thanks, I use an AFC Oiled Cleanable Air Filter, put it in 8,000 miles ago. It's a two man job to change on my Allure as you have to remove the Mud Flap which weighs a Ton. Can't do it here in Denver now but will when I get home, Texas.
By the way to the others that have help me by tightning the Boots this AM, I now have much less Black Smoke and Boost went up 1.0PSI.

Thanks, Mike 03 Allure 1st Ave. #30898

Re: Exahust - Black Smoke @ Altitude

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 80038
Daron, thanks for input, I guess the altitude question will be answered when I get back down to Texas.
I've been told these electronic engine Fuel Injectors fuel mix is being adjusted by electronics....today I did notice when I took out of Economy Mode there was much less black smoke on downshift.

Thanks, Mike 03 Allure 1st Ave. #30898

Re: Exahust - Black Smoke @ Altitude

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 80041
I concur with Mike. During our first 13 years of RVing, we lived in Colorado at 7500 ft elevation, so I had ample time to observe the same thing. A driving technique I found that helps minimize the black smoke is to feather the accelerator pedal when leaving a full stop.
That allows the turbo rpm to build up before a bunch of fuel gets dumped in when operating at higher elevations. The down side is you will not be so quick off the mark when the light turns green.
Jim Biestek

'04 Intrigue 11783

Re: Exahust - Black Smoke @ Altitude

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 80046
I live at 4000' and my ISL doesn't put out black smoke at that altitude.
It smokes for sure until the turbo get wound up, but it has to be night time with head lights from trailing autos shinning through the

exhaust so you can see the smoke. Now when I get to 6,000 ft in Northern NM or Co. I get a two or

three second puff of dirty black smoke until the turbo catches up, especially when the coach shifts down to 3rd or 2nd gear while climbing hills. This can be aggravated by driving winding two lane roads where

you are on and off the throttle making tight turns. Like going from Durango to Silverton or from

Montrose over to Salida, Even playing around in the Sierras of California, or around Glacier National

Park. Below 4000 ft no problems.
TWI 2004 Intrigue 11731 400 ISL that puts out 360 HP to the Ground.

Re: Exahust - Black Smoke @ Altitude

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 80062
Black smoke is a sign on low Turbo Boost! Turbo waste gate can be the problem but doughtful! Have the shop low pressure check the entire charge air cooler and piping package to see if it holds several PSI of air for a short time. Black smoke is when engine is heavely loaded more fuel then air! Dont believe your Ga. Laptop is in order. Ken retired Cat Engine tech. 99 Allure 30356.

Re: Exahust - Black Smoke @ Altitude

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 80066
Friend you better not see black soot on the Intake Charge Air piping! Not to be funny but make me laugh! Thanks for sharing. Ken Retired Cat tech! Loose Boots are common make sure they used the proper clamps! Ken 99 Allure 30356.

Re: Exahust - Black Smoke @ Altitude

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 80067
Ken, thanks for reply, I agree with you, except my Boost is equal to what it was when I pulled out of the shop following replacement of CAC. I'm reading off the Silverleaf, what do you mean my Ga. Laptop is not in order, I'm not using a Laptop.

Thanks, Mike 03 allure 1st ave. #30898

Re: Exahust - Black Smoke @ Altitude

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 80068
Diesel with a single turbo has a time lag to spool up and during this time as boost is building up there will be Black smoke. Todays greener engines have varable turbos yes newer Cat's have twin turbos but the Cummins modern package is star Wars compaird to my old 8.3. Now we have DEF Systems for modern coachs. My 2 Cents Ken 99 Allure 30356.

Re: Exahust - Black Smoke @ Altitude

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 80071
Friends,

thanks to all who replied re: my Exhaust Black Smoke at Altitude. Today I reached Cummins Technical at their factory. I wished I could have recorded the engineers explanation, I'll do my best as a non-engineer. Please remember I'm the messenger here not the engineer.
My engine ISL 370 was built in July 2002 and installed by CC in August 2002. My engine uses the CAPS (Cummins Accumulator Pump System) in early 2003 Cummins changed to The Common Rail Fuel System. The engineer explains that ISL engines produced up to to the years 2007 - 2009 have a barometric sensor and at altitude these fuel systems feed the necessary amount of fuel to engine to maintain the same Boost to pull the hills but doesn't compensate for less oxygen. Therefore these years engines generally don't de-rate or loose boost, but DO PRODUCE BLACK SMOKE due to less oxygen.
Engine years 2007 - 2009 produced as cleaner burning engines these engines may or will de-rate, lose boost at altitude but produce little or no BLACK SMOKE. He didn't get into engines later than 2009.

Thanks, Mike 03 Allure 1st Ave. #30898

Re: Exahust - Black Smoke @ Altitude

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 80072
Mike - I think you did a good job getting this to us in the caveman talk, thank you for sharing!!! Smitty

04 Allure 31017 - With ISL 370...
04 Allure Sold to a nice new owner! Now enjoying a 07 Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600 #6775
"We're ONDROAD for THEJRNY!" (Toad and Coach license plates, say Hi if you see us!)
 

Re: Exahust - Black Smoke @ Altitude

Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 80088
Hi Mike, I meant the Shop laptop not yours. Ken 99 Allure 30356.