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Alternator Problems

Yahoo Message Number: 5977
OK.... so I mixed topics in my last post. Sorry.

And on that topic..... has anyone had alternator problems? What was your experience as to the warranty on same?

And who did you use to replace, rebuild, etc.,?

Dick May

2002 Intrigue, #11438
Dick May
2002 Intrigue, #11438, towing a
2014 Jeep Gr Cherokee ecoDiesel

Re: Alternator Problems

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5978
Good Morning Dick, I too have had alternator problems. Matter of fact I have had my alternator replaced twice and the regulator had to be replaced again on the second alternator (did you follow all that?!?!). Anyway, my alternator was not putting enough voltage to charge the batteries while driving down the road. We definitely had rebuilt put on each time. I spoke with CC and was told that we would not get new, it would always be rebuilt. I have had many electrical problems, battery problems, echo charger too (replaced by Eidsimoes). I had the coach worked on at M&M in Chino, Ca in December 02, and then Eidsimoes RV in El Cajon, Ca. and then the factory in June 03. I am not sure it if is fixed 100% even yet.
I have been on this forum in the past describing my dilemmas. See my past posts. I also checked with Lifeline and they said the AGM's are to be equalized. For some reason Xantex (maker of the inverter) doesn't't believe Lifeline (maker of the battery)!
My problem is that if we dry camp and the batteries drop down to 12.6 to 12.25, when I start driving the voltage coming into the batteries is low. I can drive for 8 or 10 hours and the batteries will still be in the 12's. So I have had to turn on the generator while going down the road in order to charge the house enough to dry camp again a second night. If I plug in at night there doesn't seem to be a problem. If I start driving down the road with my batteries fully charged then I do not have a problem. For some reason it only happens when the batteries are as low as or lower than 12.5.

If I anyone finds a solution, I'll be all ears.

Thanks, Dale Affinity #6129

Re: Alternator Problems

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5979
Hi Dale,

I have digital voltmeters on both the house and engine batteries, a led indicator on the oem oil pressure switch (indicates voltage was applied to the battery paralleling solenoid after engine start or use of the Boost switch) and current readouts on both the inverter/converter cable and house load cable which are connected to the house batteries. This way I know when the inverter/converter is charging the batteries from the shore or generator. And I know when the alternator is charging the house batteries or the load current when using the coach appliances and lighting. A negative current reading indicates discharge and a positive indicates charge.

I notice that after starting the engine, the engine battery voltage jumps up to the alternator voltage indicating it is being charged. The house battery voltage may take a few minutes before it jumps up to the alternator voltage. This has puzzled me for some time. The wiring diagrams indicate that when the paralleling solenoid energizes, the batteries are strapped together. Many times I turn off the engine and cycle the Boost switch thinking this will clean the contacts on the solenoid. Sometimes it helps. I can only think that there may be a cable interconnect problem as well. I will be during diagnostics on this problem and report my findings to the usergroup.
Fred Kovol

Re: Alternator Problems

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5980
Fred,

On my wiring diagram there is an oil pressure sensor between the alternator and the house batteries. It looks like it takes oil pressure of 15+ PSI to close the circuit to the house batteries. The assumption is that charging starts immediately to the chassis but is delayed to the house.
In my case there is no current getting to either side. If I run the genset all three batteries get the charge.

Dick May

2002 Intrigue, #11438

Re: Alternator Problems

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5982
Hi Dick,

Yes, the oem oil pressure closes in 3 seconds after engine start and that should energize the paralleling solenoid. Charging is delayed 3 seconds to the house batteries but not minutes as in my case. In your case, if no current to either battery then it appears to be the alternator, regulator and/or interconnects - grounds as well as highs.
The genset or shore power charges the house batteries via the converter/inverter and to the engine battery via the echo charger.
Good Luck,
Fred Kovol

Re: Alternator Problems

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 6006
-Fred:

I have read with great interest the problems folks have had with the batteries, inverters and how to correct same. I must have a gold spoon somewhere as I have had no such problems.
Some while back I installed that LED indicator on the shifter consol to tell me when the alternator is connected to the house batteries. It has been lit ever since. yes I said lit. The installation let me know my oil switch was malfunctioning.

Now to my point. We do not do a great deal of dry camping. While not in use, our unit is plugged in, thus the inverter is the only charging the house batteries ever see, while the ECHO charger keeps the engine battery on top gently. We dry camped at FMCA Hamburg only running the generator a minamal amount (an hour a day). There was no particular effort to conserve, watching TV at night and I run my Ham gear with a 75amp peak current drain on sideband every morning (no generator)

The point being the batteries hold up fine. Coach built Dec. of 99 with original batteries.

I have purchaced the replacement oil switch but have not made a decision to install it.

While at the York Pre-Rally I had a chance to talk to one of Bob Lee's top people and described my situation and the consensus was with my unit usage and my experience with electric characteristics, what I am doing is workable and not necessarly wrong.
In my opinion the charging of the house batteries is better regulated with the inverter charger than the less sofistigated alternator circuit which is designed to keep an engine (not deep discharge design) battery on top all the time. If I hit the battery combiner switch the light goes out as it is supposed to do.
At least for the time being I have no incentive to make the oil switch replacement.

James M. Green Intrigue 11021 built late 99

Re: Alternator Problems

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 6024
Hi Dale,

Affinity #6129

I did some research on your lack of charging.
First, there is a discrepancy between the foldout diagram S0699 and book binder diagram S0478. After tracing by wire numbers, the S0699 matched my wiring. This is not to say yours maybe wired different.
Assuming your alternator/regulator is OK, then interconnects are suspect. Here is what to trace:

When the ignition sw is turned on, 12vdc from the ignition fuse panel is routed via a 7.5 amp fuse via wire 79 (purple)thru the IP conn and AT conn to the VIM where it goes into the VIM and is also tied to a second wire 79 which goes from the VIM directly to the regulator. If 12vdc is not present at the regulator, then the alternator will not provided a charging current. At the alternator another 79 wire is routed to both the RR (data buss) connectors in the fuel filter compartment.

So an easy way to check for 12vdc is to monitor for 12vdc at either of the RR connectors. The pinout is E+ and C- on the 6 pin conn and A+ and B- on the 9 pin conn. Also a ground wire is required to the regulator and the 3 wire capacitor must be good.

On diagrom S0478 wire 34E is shown routed directly to the regulator from the ignition sw as well as to the ignition relay which when energized supplies the 12 vdc to the ignition fuse panel for distribution. (Again, not the way the Allure is wired.)
Note that on my coach the straps between the two fuse blocks in each of the 3 fuse boxes were never tightened which lead to several intermittants. This should be checked first.

Fred Kovol

July 2000 Allure 30593

Re: Alternator Problems

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 6026
Your setup, Fred, sounds like something a lot of us would like to have. Is this

something you can share w/o having to go into basic electrical engineering, or is it

detailed somewhere (hopefully w/schematics) that can be downloaded?

Dick Stearns

2000 Allure #30519

Quote from: fredkovol"\[br\
\[br\]] > Hi Dale,
> I have digital voltmeters on both the house and engine batteries, a > led indicator on the oem oil pressure switch (indicates voltage was > applied to the battery paralleling solenoid after engine start or

use

Quote
of the Boost switch) and current readouts on both the > inverter/converter cable and house load cable which are connected

to

Quote
the house batteries. This way I know when the inverter/converter is > charging the batteries from the shore or generator. And I know when > the alternator is charging the house batteries or the load current > when using the coach appliances and lighting. A negative current > reading indicates discharge and a positive indicates charge.

I notice that after starting the engine, the engine battery

voltage

Quote
jumps up to the alternator voltage indicating it is being charged.

The

Quote
house battery voltage may take a few minutes before it jumps up to

the

Quote
alternator voltage. This has puzzled me for some time. The wiring > diagrams indicate that when the paralleling solenoid energizes, the > batteries are strapped together. Many times I turn off the engine

and

Re: Alternator Problems

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 6031
Hi Dick,

I rely heavily on the the two binders and accordian file folder of appliance information that came with the coach for all diagnostics and repair. This includes electrical, plumbing, engine, transmission, rear end, tires, batteries, appliances, suspension, etc. When I can't find something or the data in the binders is wrong, I contact CCI, explain the situation and request the missing information. In some cases I have provided the information to them, e.g. procedure for replacing the engine coolant (a 3+ day job). The manuals delivered with the coach represent about 60% of what is needed and contain about a 5% error.

I have encouraged CCI to provide lenghtly coach maintenance courses at the factory lasting 1 - 3 weeks. This would help lower the cost to ownners.

Fred Kovol

Re: Alternator Problems

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 6038
Fred, Thanks for doing the research for me.....I am going to print the email you sent, pull out my binders and see if I can follow thru the instructions you sent. I am not an electrical engineer......hopefully when I get everything together and do this one step at a time, I can follow thru it. If I run into problems I will email you. Again, thanks for doing the research, you certainly help alot of us that use this forum....we appreciate you and your amazing knowlegde. Dale

Coach Coolant Replacement

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 6041
Hi Kic,

Below is the Coolant replacement procedure - please read the binder manual and this procedure carefully; have 5 gal plastic buckets and a large funnel strapped to the coach roof access ladder to do the job.
Do not let any foreign material get into the coolant. In addition, you may want to consider removing the thermostat located under the pipe entering the rear of the engine to the left of the valve cover.
Fred Kovol

Owner's Manual, User's guide Section Rev F Dynomax ISC series chassis
Copyright 2000

Subject: Para. 1.9.3. Flushing the Coolant System and 1.9.4. Fill Procedure

Discrepancies:
1.   p. UG1-30 Notice! Do not install the radiator cap. The engine is to be operated without the cap for this process. versus 8) Loosen the surge tank cap and open ??

Note 1: Do you or don't you remove the cap and why?

Note 2: I could not get the temperature above 126 deg F as indicated on the Silverleaf with the rpms at 1000.

2.   p. UG1-30 6) Start the engine and let it run for 5 minutes with the coolant (sodium bicarbonate) temperature above 181 deg F (83 deg C).

Note 3: I cannot locate a thermostat in the coolant section for the engine (p. P1.5.1-1,-2,-3)

Note 4: As soon as the engine is started, flow is observed in the surge tank.
3.   p. UG1-30 9) After the cooling system cleaner has completely drained, fill the cooling system with good quality water.
Note 5: Define good quality water. Soft water? Total Dissolved Solids less than 100 ppm?
4.   p. UG1-31 10) Start the engine and let it run for five minutes with the water temperature above 181 deg F (83 deg C).
Note 6: See Notes 3 and 4
5.   p. UG1-31 11) Loosen the surge cap and open??. Allow system water to drain completely.
Note 7: See Note 1

Note 8:   If the cap is off, the Warning after 1) does not apply. I would never drain a hot engine!
6.   p. UG1-29 Warning! after step one: "Use the manual relief valve, or wait until the coolant temperature is below 120 deg F ??." Note 9: Does a manual relief valve exist? Note 10: You may be waiting a long time to get below 120 deg F. This whole procedure could take days with a dirty system.
7.   p. UG1-32 3) Start the engine and switch the cab heater on??..
The engine must run long enough to open the engine thermostat??..
Note 11: No reason to turn the cab heat on, the circulating pump runs with the ignition switch on.
Note 12: See notes 2, 3 and 4.
8.   p. UG1-32 6) Switch off all heaters??.
Note 13: This step should be eliminated.
 After reading the above procedures (which appear to have been written for older coaches), I elected to use the procedure below taking into consideration that it should be universal to all coaches with Cummins engines. All of the procedure details are not provided and would need added along with the notes and warnings.
Note: This is an 8 ? 12 hour job.

Note: Do not drain coolant until coolant temperature is within 25 deg F of outside air temperature.

Note: Let engine cool overnight or at least 12 hours. Open rear engine door to facilitate cooling.
1.   Drain coolant into three 5 gal clean plastic pails. Discard per local laws.
2.    Prepare 10 gal of soft water (less than 100 ppm TDS) or distilled water by adding 2 lbs of baking soda (sodium bicarbonate).
3.   Fill coolant system with baking soda mixture adding water as needed to fill surge tank and run engine 0.5 hours at high idle (1000 rpm). Surge tank cap should be removed. Have plastic pail ready to catch any runoff from surge tank.
4.   Drain coolant as follows: Inset a hose into surge tank filler tube which is connected to a soft water source. Open radiator drain valve, and adjust soft water flow so that water barely flows out of filler tube as coolant is draining from radiator.
5.    When water draining from radiator is clear (no color), run engine 15 minutes and wait for water to be clear a second time. This may be repeated several times if coolant is dirty. After final engine run, turn on ignition to observe engine temperature and verify it is within 25 deg F of outside air temperature. Do this every 15 minutes until engine temperature is cooled to proper temperature. Do not start engine.
6.   Turnoff soft water, remove hose and let coolant system drain completely.
7.   Replace coolant filter (4 units DCA4 Fleetguard WF2071). Note: Shutoff valve on filter head will not have to be turned off. Note: Coolant filter should be replaced only when needed as determined by a coolant strip test (Fleetguard CC2602B) performed every six months or at coolant replacement.

Note: Never use car antifreeze; if used, coolant system must be drained and refilled per this procedure steps 1 through 9.
8.   Fill coolant system with a 50-50 mix of Fleetguard Compleat ethylene glycol concentrate and distilled water or Compleat premix.
The color of the coolant is blue. Have 10 gal on hand. Note: This applies to Cummins engines only.
9.   Run engine for 5 minutes maximum and add coolant mixture as necessary, secure surge tank cap.

Cummins Coolant Replacement Procedure

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 6044
Hi Kic,

Please read this carefully and read the procedure in the binder which came with the coach.
Fred Kovol

Owner's Manual, User's guide Section Rev F Dynomax ISC series chassis
Copyright 2000

Subject: Para. 1.9.3. Flushing the Coolant System and 1.9.4. Fill Procedure

Discrepancies:
1.   p. UG1-30 Notice! Do not install the radiator cap. The engine is to be operated without the cap for this process. versus 8) Loosen the surge tank cap and open ??

Note 1: Do you or don't you remove the cap and why?

Note 2: I could not get the temperature above 126 deg F as indicated on the Silverleaf with the rpms at 1000.

2.   p. UG1-30 6) Start the engine and let it run for 5 minutes with the coolant (sodium bicarbonate) temperature above 181 deg F (83 deg C).

Note 3: I cannot locate a thermostat in the coolant section for the engine (p. P1.5.1-1,-2,-3)

Note 4: As soon as the engine is started, flow is observed in the surge tank.
3.   p. UG1-30 9) After the cooling system cleaner has completely drained, fill the cooling system with good quality water.
Note 5: Define good quality water. Soft water? Total Dissolved Solids less than 100 ppm?
4.   p. UG1-31 10) Start the engine and let it run for five minutes with the water temperature above 181 deg F (83 deg C).
Note 6: See Notes 3 and 4
5.   p. UG1-31 11) Loosen the surge cap and open??. Allow system water to drain completely.
Note 7: See Note 1

Note 8:   If the cap is off, the Warning after 1) does not apply. I would never drain a hot engine!
6.   p. UG1-29 Warning! after step one: "Use the manual relief valve, or wait until the coolant temperature is below 120 deg F ??." Note 9: Does a manual relief valve exist? Note 10: You may be waiting a long time to get below 120 deg F. This whole procedure could take days with a dirty system.
7.   p. UG1-32 3) Start the engine and switch the cab heater on??..
The engine must run long enough to open the engine thermostat??..
Note 11: No reason to turn the cab heat on, the circulating pump runs with the ignition switch on.
Note 12: See notes 2, 3 and 4.
8.   p. UG1-32 6) Switch off all heaters??.
Note 13: This step should be eliminated.
 After reading the above procedures (which appear to have been written for older coaches), I elected to use the procedure below taking into consideration that it should be universal to all coaches with Cummins engines. All of the procedure details are not provided and would need added along with the notes and warnings.
Note: This is an 8 ? 12 hour job.

Note: Do not drain coolant until coolant temperature is within 25 deg F of outside air temperature.

Note: Let engine cool overnight or at least 12 hours. Open rear engine door to facilitate cooling.
1.   Drain coolant into three 5 gal clean plastic pails. Discard per local laws.
2.    Prepare 10 gal of soft water (less than 100 ppm TDS) or distilled water by adding 2 lbs of baking soda (sodium bicarbonate).
3.   Fill coolant system with baking soda mixture adding water as needed to fill surge tank and run engine 0.5 hours at high idle (1000 rpm). Surge tank cap should be removed. Have plastic pail ready to catch any runoff from surge tank.
4.   Drain coolant as follows: Inset a hose into surge tank filler tube which is connected to a soft water source. Open radiator drain valve, and adjust soft water flow so that water barely flows out of filler tube as coolant is draining from radiator.
5.    When water draining from radiator is clear (no color), run engine 15 minutes and wait for water to be clear a second time. This may be repeated several times if coolant is dirty. After final engine run, turn on ignition to observe engine temperature and verify it is within 25 deg F of outside air temperature. Do this every 15 minutes until engine temperature is cooled to proper temperature. Do not start engine.
6.   Turnoff soft water, remove hose and let coolant system drain completely.
7.   Replace coolant filter (4 units DCA4 Fleetguard WF2071). Note: Shutoff valve on filter head will not have to be turned off. Note: Coolant filter should be replaced only when needed as determined by a coolant strip test (Fleetguard CC2602B) performed every six months or at coolant replacement.

Note: Never use car antifreeze; if used, coolant system must be drained and refilled per this procedure steps 1 through 9.
8.   Fill coolant system with a 50-50 mix of Fleetguard Compleat ethylene glycol concentrate and distilled water or Compleat premix.
The color of the coolant is blue. Have 10 gal on hand. Note: This applies to Cummins engines only.
9.   Run engine for 5 minutes maximum and add coolant mixture as necessary, secure surge tank cap.
 

Re: Alternator Problems

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 6085
Thanks for the insight, Dale. I too have been running my generator while driving. I fire it up when my meters (analog dash and Silverleaf) get down to the low 12's.
I'm on my way to the Class Reunion and a factory service appointment but I don't think I can wait on the repair/replacement. Since it's a holiday weekend I'll have to wait until Tuesday to try to find a shop to do the work.

Dick May

2002 Intrigue, #11438