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Another Cooling Unit Melt Down!

Yahoo Message Number: 83679
Hi,

I got up to cool frozen goods and luke warm milk this morning. And I thought I smelled ammonia the other day but couldn't imagine a new cooling unit failure so soon. It's been 20 months since we installed our Pines RV Refrigeration cooling unit and everything appeared to be working fine. A quick look at the back of the refrigerator showed sodium chromate all over the base plate which isn't a good sign. Here are some photos to look at:

http://muniac.smugmug.com/photos/swfpopup.mg?AlbumID=26331599&AlbumKey=cNznVf Today is Sunday so I can't call Pines. This unit did come with a 5 year warranty so I'll need to see how this is going to work. I've already lost several hundred dollars of food so far. Having to yank the frig and do this repair a second time isn't pleasing me either.

I deliberately disconnected the propane feature following the replacement until I could complete a reasonable testing period. An open flame isn't a comforting thought around an untested piece of equipment. Experience has taught me to believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see. My instincts tell me to proceed with extreme caution with any products containing or associated with the letters RV. I encourage others to proceed with this level of caution too.

Let me make it abundantly clear that it's all very preliminary at this point as I just discovered this a couple of hours ago. I won't know more until I inspect the cooling unit further and speak with Pines. They need a chance to respond to this and I'm hoping their response will make things right. That's all I have so far and I will, of course, provide ongoing updates on the details as they unfold. My initial feelings are one of disappointment. Jeannie is loading the cooler now, so we'll be running on ice bags, patience and our plastic Coleman cooler. We'll make do and be thankful for the good things going on in life.

It's my opinion this situation DID NOT present a fire hazard. The refrigerator is turned off and its breaker has been thrown. Sorry to lay this bad news on the group.

Best - Scott

2006 Allure 430 40' #31349

(Bus-Stead Lemon) My Allure Page http://www.muniac.com/Allure%20Page.html

Re: Another Cooling Unit Melt Down!

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 83681
Hey Scott - Thanks for telling us you'll keep us informed of your follow-up findings and progress. We added the same cooling unit, still running both Propane and Electric.
Look forward to learning along with you. And, sorry it required further activity. Almost all of the feedback on RV Pines has been so good. And I observed better design, material usage and workmanship of the cooling unit - gave me a warm feeling...
Best to you both, and yeah - what a PITA it will be living with ice chests until resolved.
Smitty

04 Allure 31017
04 Allure Sold to a nice new owner! Now enjoying a 07 Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600 #6775
"We're ONDROAD for THEJRNY!" (Toad and Coach license plates, say Hi if you see us!)

Re: Another Cooling Unit Melt Down!

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 83682
Smitty - I too agree with the good quality and that was my observation. I'm hoping this is a one off fluke of sorts. At this point it isn't so much about the failure as how it gets resolved. Right now the whole bus stinks from ammonia so we've got the fans on. More details forth coming when I drill down into this deeper. Thanks for the well wishes and moral support. Jeannie's family back in NJ puts our situation into perspective. Ours is a hangnail in comparison. Straight ahead!

At 10:16 AM 11/4/2012, you wrote:

Re: Another Cooling Unit Melt Down!

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 83691
Scott, I too am sorry to hear about this. A big hassle for sure. Sounds like you and Jeannie have a great attitude and perspective with your situation. That's quite an asset when you live in a coach. Good luck!

Jim

99 Magna #5629

Re: Another Cooling Unit Melt Down!

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 83737
Scott thanks for your web site and posts I have learned alot I was wondering if your cooling unit went out because of runing it on the inverter? I noticed how close it was that you set that up and then the problem?

Re: Another Cooling Unit Melt Down!

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 83755
Jim - I don't believe the failure had anything to do with the heaters being powered by a pure sine wave coming from the utility pole or an inverter. My guess is this will turn out to be a broken weld, tubing fracture and/or stress crack somewhere. It's possible the unit might have been abused in shipment in subtle ways that wouldn't have been obvious to the eye. I inspected it carefully and all looked perfectly fine when it was installed. I'll know more when I inspect things closer. I'll keep the information and photos flowing per usual. New cooling unit is expected this coming Tuesday.

At 07:44 PM 11/5/2012, you wrote:

Re: Cooling Unit Melt Down

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 83711
Scott,

Unhappy about your situation, but happy that they are honoring their guarantee, sort of no questioned asked. Too bad they will not honor labor with the replacement.
Dave

07 Country Coach Allure 430 #31495 12 Jeep GC Toad Mountains of So Cal
Dave & Jodi
2007 CC Allure 40’ Tag #31495
2012 Jeep GC
Big Bear Lake, Ca & Henderson, Nev

Re: Cooling Unit Melt Down

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 83713
Please keep us posted..... I've installed lots of these Pines Cooling units over the last year, averaging about 2 a week.
Sure hope this is a one off deal..... We haven't had any issues, this is the first I've heard of.

Jim Lewis

Infinity Coach

From:Dave Hansen
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 12:35 PM To:Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Country-Coach-Owners] Cooling Unit Melt Down

Scott,

Unhappy about your situation, but happy that they are honoring their guarantee, sort of no questioned asked. Too bad they will not honor labor with the replacement.

Dave

07 Country Coach Allure 430 #31495 12 Jeep GC Toad
Mountains of So Cal

Re: Cooling Unit Melt Down

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 83714
Jim - A one off situation is also my read on this. The Amish community doesn't use electricity and these cooling units have been working for them in residential applications for decades. The only different with RV applications is the brackets welded on to hold the boiler heaters. It may be a weld there violated the tubing. I won't know until I yank the frig, disassemble and inspect it. What do you guys use to seal the cold pack into the frig? The "Great Stuff" they supplied turned out to be very messy and not so great.
I'd like something that has a work time, can be removed and doesn't push the cold pack away from the frig too much. Advice is always appreciated. Yes I will chronicle the whole process. Maybe I can even get a plumber's butt shot or two.

At 12:48 PM 11/5/2012, you wrote:

Re: Cooling Unit Melt Down

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 83717
I had a radiator built AND installed at Infinity and it lasted one year and about 3000 miles. The responce I recieved over the phone by Infinity was one that, well let's just say didn't leave me warm and fuzzy. I cut my losses, brought my leaking coach to CC in Junction city where they had a semi truck, bolt together, type radiator built and with two years and many miles behind me, I've quit spending money at Infinity.
Dave and Tammy 04 Inspire dave.1320@...


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From: Jim Lewis

To: Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 5, 2012 12:48 PM Subject: Re: [Country-Coach-Owners] Cooling Unit Melt Down

[font="Calibri"] Please keep us posted..... I've installed lots of these Pines Cooling units over the last year, averaging about 2 a week.
Sure hope this is a one off deal..... We haven't had any issues, this is the first I've heard of.

Jim Lewis

Infinity Coach

[font="Calibri"]
From:Dave Hansen Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 12:35 PM To:Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Country-Coach-Owners] Cooling Unit Melt Down



Scott,

[font="times new roman"]Unhappy about your situation, but happy that they are honoring their guarantee, sort of no questioned asked. Too bad they will not honor labor with the replacement.
Dave

07 Country Coach Allure 430 #31495 12 Jeep GC Toad Mountains of So Cal
[font="times new roman"]
[size=0px]
From: Scott

To: Yahoo News Group

Sent: Monday, November 5, 2012 10:59 AM Subject: [Country-Coach-Owners] Cooling Unit Melt Down

Hi, I'm chronicling my situation here: http://www.muniac.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=168#Post168 for anyone interested in what's unfolding and going on. It's being updated as events get completed. Best - Scott 2006 Allure 430 40' #31349 (Bus-Stead Lemon) My Allure Page http://www.muniac.com/Allure%20Page.html


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Re: Cooling Unit Melt Down

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 83721
David,

Wow, Infinity HAS NEVER BUILT ANY RADIATORS - We've installed custom radiators built from performance radiator & installed stocked shelved units from radiator supply and other suppliers over the years. If a custom built was used there was a reason, I honestly can't remember but the only time a custom built is normally used is because of customers timelines of needing the coach and the stocked units aren't available at that time. Since you didn't bring the coach or even the radiator back for warranty what was I suppose to do? As it was expanded to you when this happened, the unit would have to go back to the manufacture and depending on what their warranty procedure is/was would determine the outcome. If I remember correctly something came loose and rubbed into the radiator, and that very well could have been Infinity's fault, but again, since it was not brought back to our shop for repair nor did we get any communication from you or the shop you took it to, fault was never determined. IF you would have done either of those it would have been handled appropriately. Bad mouthing Infinity over this forum is not handling it appropriately, David I would have bent over backwards making sure you were taken care of, no matter who's fault. I'm sorry this happened, but in order to get things corrected when something happens we all have to play by the rules set forth under the warranty procedures set by the manufacture.

Jim Lewis

Infinity Coach

From:Dave Combs
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 1:00 PM To:Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Country-Coach-Owners] Cooling Unit Melt Down

I had a radiator built AND installed at Infinity and it lasted one year and about 3000 miles. The responce I recieved over the phone by Infinity was one that, well let's just say didn't leave me warm and fuzzy. I cut my losses, brought my leaking coach to CC in Junction city where they had a semi truck, bolt together, type radiator built and with two years and many miles behind me, I've quit spending money at Infinity.
Dave and Tammy
04 Inspire

dave.1320@...
From: Jim Lewis

To: Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 5, 2012 12:48 PM Subject: Re: [Country-Coach-Owners] Cooling Unit Melt Down

Please keep us posted..... I've installed lots of these Pines Cooling units over the last year, averaging about 2 a week.
Sure hope this is a one off deal..... We haven't had any issues, this is the first I've heard of.

Jim Lewis

Infinity Coach

From:Dave Hansen
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 12:35 PM To:Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Country-Coach-Owners] Cooling Unit Melt Down

Scott,

Unhappy about your situation, but happy that they are honoring their guarantee, sort of no questioned asked. Too bad they will not honor labor with the replacement.

Dave

07 Country Coach Allure 430 #31495 12 Jeep GC Toad
Mountains of So Cal
From: Scott

To: Yahoo News Group

Sent: Monday, November 5, 2012 10:59 AM Subject: [Country-Coach-Owners] Cooling Unit Melt Down

Hi, I'm chronicling my situation here: http://www.muniac.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=168#Post168 for anyone interested in what's unfolding and going on. It's being updated as events get completed. Best - Scott 2006 Allure 430 40' #31349 (Bus-Stead Lemon) My Allure Page http://www.muniac.com/Allure%20Page.html

Re: Cooling Unit Melt Down

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 83732
Scott --

Just a thought, the Amish don't use electricity, nor do they take their refrigerators down the highway at 50+ miles per hour. Perhaps what they have engineered that works well in their homes suffers from some of the same frailities as Norcold and Dometic.

S. Brandt, '06 Intrigue, #11964

Re: Cooling Unit Melt Down

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 83733
Sharon - The gas absorption cooling units provide a refrigeration cycle without electricity this allows them access to the advantages of in house refrigeration. Something, at this point, I can't imagine being without! As a result, they have become conversant with this technology. In a house, out of level operation would seem unlikely. Also the stress and strain of mechanical vibrations wouldn't be a problem. Out of level operation combined with a general lack of keeping an eye on your equipment significantly increases fire risks with GACUs. RVers thus have an added responsibility to maintain safe operation and/or develop better safety mechanisms. Builders for RV applications need to design with those rigors in mind. I think Pines has done this. As for Norcold, they dropped the ball on quality in favor of profit. And I gather they are finding out now just how expensive those profit driven cost cutting measures are. They couldn't even manage their recall fix properly.
GACUs aren't for everyone. Neither is a $4k domestic refrigerator conversion. That said, safe, cost effective and reliable options are what is needed, however. As for RVs, GACUs and domestic refrigerators will continue to be players in this arena as they should. Let's continue to keep these doors open with factual information, accurate product evaluations, level heads and comprehensive implementation plans. The devil is in the details. Pick what works for you and is safe for everyone. Keep an eye on everything no matter what path you go down.
As for my recent cooling unit failure, I can't comment on it in detail at this time. Simply because I haven't yanked the frig yet to inspect the cooling unit. Maybe it's an RV stress related issue or perhaps not. That inspection will occur soon and I will take photos and provide an explanation. Pines RV Refrigeration is also interested in the failure. One way or another, an answer will come forward. What I learn, I'll gladly publish for anyone interested to digest. The idea is to learn from mistakes and do better the next time around. Even better is to learn from someone else's mistakes and avoid them altogether. Specific failure definition is very important and I try to document the ones I've had hands on experience with. The next step is to receive the replacement cooling unit for which I am now waiting. Per my previous posting, I'll be updated my blog entry on this as things develop. Thanks for your note and thoughts. It's all very interesting. I'm off to get another bag of ice........ I'll save a few cubes for my forehead.

At 07:18 AM 11/6/2012, you wrote: