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It Just Fell Off

Yahoo Message Number: 89167
A couple of days ago we needed to move to another RV park. Our original 2 month booking couldn't be extended. Things happen for a reason. So we are relocated to a nicer park that's quieter and $105/mth less expensive. And the new place was glad to extend our booking.
To move we obviously need to clam up the bus. We always wash all the slide surfaces to remove dust before retracting them. We also lubricate the skid on the main D/S slide with silicone. Last I checked gear motors were about $800.

During the washing, the bottom front corner angle on the back P/S slide proceeds to fall off. Stuff like this just p*sses me off! CC just smears some caulk on it then sticks it on. An approach that fails at so many levels. But it's quick and cheap and I guess makes the warranty.
Here's a picture of it:

http://muniac.smugmug.com/Maintenance/Rear-Passenger-Slide-Trim/i-bW6RknK/0/M/img_4728-M.jpg With some rain on the way I used DAP 3.0 roofing sealant to put this back on quickly. These should have been affixed with a properly designed fastener system. I'll need to devise something later. And all the angles are just a quick smear and stick. 16 in all.
Sadly CC slides are very poorly designed and thwart with all kinds of problems. Some problems can do damage running up into the thousands of dollars. Water leaks being the most likely to rear their ugly head.
And some of the easiest to remedy. When we first got the bus I had no idea of any of this. Now I'm a bit more familiar with the issues. As I find leaks and problems I document them with suggested solutions.
http://www.muniac.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=111#Post111 Safe travels to one and all.
--

Best - Scott

2006 Allure 430 40' #31349

(Bus-Stead Lemon) My Allure Page http://www.muniac.com/Allure%20Page.html

Re: It Just Fell Off

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 89170
Scott, we just recently traded a 2002 Winne Journey for our 2007 Allure 470. While I have noticed a few things (design flaws.....especially the upward facing horizontal joints on the slides), reading your blog is eye-opening. I will try and stay ahead of these things as this needs to be our last coach and our retirement coach.
I've been impressed with Eternabond tape. I've already used it on every roof joint (vents, skylight) and it has been recommended as a pretty 'permanent' fix. The main issue would be the color....it generally comes in white but I have heard they make a version that can be painted.
You've given me a list of 'chores' along with some heartburn. However, we all know any coach has it weaknesses and they must be maintained.

Gary

2007 Allure 470 #31578



[size=0px]
From: Scott

To: "Coach, Country"

Sent: Tuesday, July 2, 2013 6:02 PM Subject: [Country-Coach-Owners] It Just Fell Off

A couple of days ago we needed to move to another RV park. Our original 2 month booking couldn't be extended. Things happen for a reason. So we are relocated to a nicer park that's quieter and $105/mth less expensive. And the new place was glad to extend our booking.
To move we obviously need to clam up the bus. We always wash all the slide surfaces to remove dust before retracting them. We also lubricate the skid on the main D/S slide with silicone. Last I checked gear motors were about $800.

During the washing, the bottom front corner angle on the back P/S slide proceeds to fall off. Stuff like this just p*sses me off! CC just smears some caulk on it then sticks it on. An approach that fails at so many levels. But it's quick and cheap and I guess makes the warranty.
Here's a picture of it:
http://muniac.smugmug.com/Maintenance/Rear-Passenger-Slide-Trim/i-bW6RknK/0/M/img_4728-M.jpg With some rain on the way I used DAP 3.0 roofing sealant to put this back on quickly. These should have been affixed with a properly designed fastener system. I'll need to devise something later. And all the angles are just a quick smear and stick. 16 in all.
Sadly CC slides are very poorly designed and thwart with all kinds of problems. Some problems can do damage running up into the thousands of dollars. Water leaks being the most likely to rear their ugly head.
And some of the easiest to remedy. When we first got the bus I had no idea of any of this. Now I'm a bit more familiar with the issues. As I find leaks and problems I document them with suggested solutions.
http://www.muniac.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=111#Post111 Safe travels to one and all.
--

Best - Scott

2006 Allure 430 40' #31349

(Bus-Stead Lemon) My Allure Page http://www.muniac.com/Allure%20Page.html

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Re: It Just Fell Off

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 89173
Then folks ask me why I went back to Zip Dee Awnings? I had Chris Snyder inspect my roof and slide rooms every year. It was my solution when I had a leak over the hi fi cabinet that allowed water all down the inside of the wall around the passenger window to flood the entry steps. Some over tightened the screws that secured the roof cap to side wall, allowing flexing, failure of the sealant, and entry of water through the holes. Sorry I don't have a picture of the awnings extended over the DS slide to cover the windows, too. I changed that because the patio awning only comes straight out and does not shade the windows either early in the morning or late in the afternoon. After paying big bucks twice and having the door awning repaired 4 times when the plastic parts failed the 5th time I scrapped the thing and had Zip Dee in

Re: It Just Fell Off

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 89177
Scott: all of ours are both sealed with silicone and pop-riveted in place.

Roger Harper
2006 Intrigue
#11990

Re: It Just Fell Off

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 89191
As I checked my rig this evening (after reading this thread), one of mine fell off in my hand. Three others are loose.

Pop rivets with proper sealant would work but I would be concerned about drilling more holes and creating more places for water to enter. These pieces look primarily cosmetic to me. I would think a good polyurethane sealant/adhesive would hold them....maybe 3M 5200?
Roger, are your pop rivets in the sides or the bottoms of the angle pieces?
Gary 2007 Allure 470, #31578

Re: It Just Fell Off

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 89192
Google Eternabond. There are a number of sellers. I think Camping World also has it. It is basically a roofing tape that can be applied to most anything other than silicone. It is very hard to remove so some folks don't care for it because of that.

Gary 2007 Allure 470 #31578

Re: It Just Fell Off

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 89197
Scott, I can understand, fortunately mine are fixed with screws on the vertical overlapping the base, but look "glued" with sikaflex or similar along the base like yours.
On the subject of CC and some of their disappointing and unnecessary production issues I was looking at my water pump (domestic) the other day after reading about some failures. On my boat I always had a spare and quick release connections and wiring so I could do a swap in minutes in the event of failure. So looked at the pump, a Shurflo 4900 and the label says 2007 although I have a 2008 coach so I thought right I will get a spare and look at this plumbing. I read the install instructions. "Do not connect solid plastic pipe to the pump" noise and damage will result. What did they use, solid plastic pipe direct to the pump. Some weird, up 10 inches and down again, 90 degree bends 3 times, connection from the tank to the pump only 18 inches away. Well that does not help the flow apart from anything else! So that will be out and replaced with flex pipe and a gate valve so I do not have to drain the tank to change the pump! Also the instructions suggest using 3/4 pipe into the pump to facilitate flow, what do CC use? 1/2 inch! Anyway it's still a magnificent coach especially when compared to some of the crap out there.

Michael Slater
2008 Allure 31683

Re: It Just Fell Off

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 89205
Gary: all of ours were pop riveted when we bought the coach. They are riveted on the side. It's a very neat clean job, and I had just assumed it was that way from the factory. I had no idea until the post yesterday that all of them weren't riveted.

Roger Harper
2006 Intrigue
#11990

Re: It Just Fell Off

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 89210
Gary - Eternabond is a good product. On my list of things to do with slide joints. The good news is a lot of slide hassles can be avoided with a little effort and not too much bread. The key is knowing in advance and being proactive. We all have a bit more knowledge now about these things.

Best - Scott

2006 Allure 430 40' #31349

(Bus-Stead Lemon) My Allure Page http://www.muniac.com/Allure%20Page.html

Re: It Just Fell Off

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 89215
Our two slide Allure had one of the large slides lower angle cap rupture too. I went with the boards recommendation to remove, clean well, 3M 5200 (think that was the stuff), drill and screw in three locations, the cap back into location.
I did this two 1/2 years ago, and have twice since then removed and replaced a finger applied application of normal caulking (Clear) on the leading top side edge.

I could not locate a tape color matched the coaches, or I would have added the Scott Vinyl Tape too.
Scott - What was our source for your tape? Maybe they have new colors?
And guys, I doubt that any coach, car, boat, etc. is going to be perfect. They're all going to have problems, and some design flaws. CC's have a solid reputation for a good reason. Some models had more problems then others, but that is the same for other manufacturers too. As Scott, Dallas (Have not seen him post recently?), Mikee, and many, many others owners do - just keep and eye on your rigs. When you see something that does not look too slick, see if you can improve on it, and keep sharing with the gang... I know I spent hours reading and looking at pictures and the Database of this board, as I was trying to learn our coach. (Heck, still learning!!!)

It's all part of the fun!

Best to all, be safe, have fun,
Smitty

04 Allure 31017
04 Allure Sold to a nice new owner! Now enjoying a 07 Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600 #6775
"We're ONDROAD for THEJRNY!" (Toad and Coach license plates, say Hi if you see us!)

Re: It Just Fell Off

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 89218
Any concern that adding screws would/could tear the slide seal? I am planning to use Marine Goop (waterproof, clear, pretty much permanent adhesive) to re-attach the angle piece then re-caulk the top edge. If that doesn't hold over time, I will drill and add screws.

Gary

2007 Allure 470 #31578

Re: It Just Fell Off

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 89219
No problems with ours yet, flat rounded SS screws, off of memory they were 3/8th.
But we copied this repair technique from others, so some searching might even reveal some good pictures, in addition to Scott's info.
I do recall that the 3M Marine Sealant also came in a bit faster curing tube also. I used the faster curing. I applied the glue to the angle, and also around and into the pre drilled holes (that angle piece was tough drilling as I recall:)!), once I placed the angle where it needed to go, I taped into location along the side and bottom. Then I 'snugged' the screws in tight. Sealant squeezed out of the top leading edge, good, and then I cleaned it up with 3M Bug and Tar remover. I left the slide extended 24 hours to let things cure well. Then I finished with the leading edge of caulking.
Hope others that have made this repair longer ago then I did, will report back in.
On the slides and the leaks that Scott and others have noted over the years. We have two slides on our rig, and when I had to replace the spring in the awning of the big slide, I took the opportunity with the topper off to clean well, run a leading edge of 3M Marine Sealant, and the topped off with a 2" strip of Eternabond. I did not get back into behind the seal for the back of the slide edge, but got the front and as much of the sides as I could get while extended. We'll do this for the back slide in the future too.
While the awning topper was out of it's slot, I took a good look and cleaned the track/slot as well as I could. I touched up any areas that looked suspect with clear sealant.

Lots of opportunities to stay busy on our little wagons:)!

Best of all,
Smitty

04 Allure 31017
04 Allure Sold to a nice new owner! Now enjoying a 07 Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600 #6775
"We're ONDROAD for THEJRNY!" (Toad and Coach license plates, say Hi if you see us!)

Re: It Just Fell Off

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 89231
Smitty - I simply used 3M electricians tape. Available in multiple colors, U/V stabilized and a good grade of adhesive. That said, I think the eternabond tape is a better solution. As for electricians tape, don't buy junk! Buy 3M. That is if you're going this route.

This all got started with me trying to run down slide leaks. I needed something I could install/remove that was conformal. And also able to tightly seal suspected leaks. The whole adventure was a bit of a wild ride revealing many design issues and leaks. The tape idea turned out to be a winner. Even the awing toppers and their attachments got involved. I've documented all of this in the usual place. The awning topper was an unexpected surprise. The good news is we know a lot more now than before and folks are communicating. Some may have avoided serious water damage.

Some purists have the idea that an exposed fastener implies a loss of cosmetic appeal. If we're talking about Thomasville furniture or classic motorcars I might agree. But that isn't the case with an RV.
For some perhaps but I'm placing priorities on design integrity, service life and joints being waterproof. Caulking and sealants aren't bad by definition. Where they go bad is improper usage and/or application. We know from windshields, a good grade of industrial caulk used properly can provide excellent service. If you look at the photo in my previous note (It Just Fell Off!) you'll see the bead isn't done properly. Also the caulk compound is incompatible with the steel meaning the bond failed there not on the painted Owens Corning panel. But caulk offers idiots the illusion of craftsmanship. We as the end users then pay the price.

As for CC slide angles, flathead screws could have been used in the bottom in two places. Screws would take the load off the caulk which is there for sealing purposes only. The whole thing is a joke because the slides have a zillion exposed screws in them already. What's 2-4 more?? In my view the whole piece meal approach to their slides is obsolete. A fiberglass one piece pan would do much better. Now entire boat hulls and van bodies are made this way. In fact the nose and tail capping are fiberglass. Large molds with structural integrity are possible. The goal is to eliminate seams not create them. Then slobber caulk all over and run a zillion screws in hoping they don't leak. We all know the sub par product coming from these efforts.

CC was too busy designing the Veranda, instead of rethinking better methods of making real improvement in their designs. These issues aren't new but just neglected. There are lots of options with slide designs. Just about every bus builder has their version. Most will be problematic and a few will really shin. Build what has proven to work and offer customers a mature product, not something that has issues.
And if we're going to make a mistake why not make a new one. Smarter customers are the best pathway to positive change and better products.
Joe Banks coined this idea many years ago. Anyone remember, "An educated consumer is our best customer." I'll add that the devil is always in the details.

Best - Scott

2006 Allure 430 40' #31349

(Bus-Stead Lemon) My Allure Page http://www.muniac.com/Allure%20Page.html

Re: It Just Fell Off

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 89233
Scott, Gary and others,

I have an 07 Allure and have the same problems with the leaks, it has taken me several years to combat this problem. Re-caulk, not much help, lot depended on how the Coach was Setting(position) when the rain came. Finally I removed the Angles on top of the Slides, using a putty knife to slide up and under and prying them off, I had no screws or rivets, nothing but caulk, which looked like a tape type caulk. On top of the slide was bare wood, the corner never had any caulk ever, the roof and side wall joined with nothing but the medal corner piece. I used a high grade Marine Caulk and caulked the wood where it joined together, and then placed caulk in the angle piece and on both sides of the angle, and re-installed the angles, cleaning up any ozed out caulk, used duct tape to secure the angle until the caulk set up. So far no more leaks, and we have been in lots of rain. I could not believe the way CC left these joints. Raw plywood, and water had soaked into it from day one, I even pulled out the windows that were under these joints and You could see the water stain. Do not use the eternibond, it is something to clean up, or remove, those joints will still leak under the eternibond, the ones on top.
Marvin, 07 Allure 470, 31459

Re: It Just Fell Off

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 89234
Marvin - Good information. And the plywood isn't even exterior grade.
Imagine that! Fixes are of two types. Those that really fix the problem and those that just delay the next repair. And the CC sign says, "The Finest Motor Coaches In The World." And they all seem to sleep well at night. Go figure.

Best - Scott

2006 Allure 430 40' #31349

(Bus-Stead Lemon) My Allure Page http://www.muniac.com/Allure%20Page.html

Re: It Just Fell Off

Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 89238
Marvin, thanks for the alert. I have just started investigating my slides and I will certainly be looking at those top corner pieces. Unfortunately, it has been raining here in Virginia for several days and I will have to wait for a 'dry spell.'
I do wonder about comment regarding eternabond. I used it on my previous coach and it worked as advertised. If it is properly applied to a properly prepped surface (will not stick to silicone and it must be rolled to properly activate the adhesive), it is not going to leak. If you've ever tried to remove eternabond, it is easy to see how well it works. I would think it would be ideal to use to seal those angles at the top of the slide rooms.


Gary 2007 Allure 470 #31578

Re: It Just Fell Off

Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 89247
Mike - I've been critical and out spoken about CC in the areas I feel they've short changed their customers. But we too are comfortable with our bus. Given the chance to go back in time, I don't think I'd select another unit. I'd just handle a lot of stuff differently. Knowledge is the key to successful management. Something I didn't have at the time.
I wasn't happy about CC going belly up and walking away from its debts.
Wasn't happy about the $850K of Owens Corning compensation that disappeared from the customers in need of paint jobs. After all that bread did belong to the customers that had issue.

Your example typifies so many things being made in USA. Once a trademark of quality now nothing more than a beautiful young woman with terminal cancer. It's all very sad. We need to do much better. And we can if customers get involved in whole process. A good goal is for the customers to make quality mandatory and prerequisite to running a profitable business. It's amazing how a business will pay attention when it's hit in the wallet.

The plumbing in these vehicles is way below satisfactory. It isn't the PEX tubing but not using proper diameters, runs and manifolds as required. Some of these issues are easy to fix like your pump plumbing. Others are extremely difficult. The lack of proper design creates unacceptable pressure drops and loss of flow. The really really sad part is so many of these things could be corrected at no additional cost to the builder. But no one gives a crap. And when the pride is gone where do we go to find quality??

Best - Scott

2006 Allure 430 40' #31349

(Bus-Stead Lemon) My Allure Page http://www.muniac.com/Allure%20Page.html

Re: It Just Fell Off

Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 89250
Gary, I used the eternabond in the begining, cleaned the area really well, but I still had some leakage, then I had to remove the eternabond, the hardest job of all, l could not find anything that would remove the adhesive. My next step was to remove the corner angles, there was the evidence of the leakage, the side wall and roof met and no caulking, nothing but the bare ends of plywood and some other material 5hat looked like pressed cardboard, if that joint had been properly caulked it would never leaked, like Scott said. Good luck with your eternabond, never again for me. Marvin 07 allure 31459

Re: It Just Fell Off

Reply #20 –
Yahoo Message Number: 89251
Marvin, I understand. I do wonder if the caulk used by CC for that area had any silicone in it? That would be the only reason I could think the Ebond did not seal well. It works underwater.

Gary

2007 Allure 470 #31578

Re: It Just Fell Off

Reply #21 –
Yahoo Message Number: 89258
The trim pieces that is being talked about here is a common problem that all CC have had The reason being is that they did not use any primer before applying the sikaflex adhesive The best way to fix this is ( not with tape or silicon ) take the loose strips off clean the sides Of all old adhesive and the strips !! Tape off the width of your trim piece ! And the use a Pinch weld primer on the trim piece as well as the side ! Then you use the Sika Flex adhesive I used 227 it is in most of your marinas as well as rv supply houses apply to both surfaces I used pipe clamps but I see some folks just tape until set .
If you google Sika flex you can see the different applications and colors that it comes in and they Also have primers and cleaners .

I did this 4 yrs ago on my 06 Intrigue and it still looks like it was just finished it takes some time But the end result is worth it
Denny Parker
06 Intrigue

Re: It Just Fell Off

Reply #22 –
Yahoo Message Number: 89273
Well I will add my problems to the mix and the fix to my problem. My coach is a 2006 Inspire with 2 different types of slide. The 2 front sides are a 1 piece molded box where as my bedroom slide is a 5 piece bolt and screwed together and it leaked like a sieve. The head board above the piano hinge that is screwed down they used plywood on end for spacer strips, screws going into the plys then when it got wet I lifted up the bed and the power of the hyd lifts pulled the screws out and the bed landed on top of me, what a joke a 2 year old could have did a better job. I used real wood and screwed and glued it the right way.
Now to the fix.

I got a roll of 100% waterproof tape color to match coach applied to all the seams and a 2" sponge roller for under the topper and a roll of blue paint tape then I went to Camping World and got a can of ProFlexRV http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/item/proflex-brushable-sealant/21208 After applying the tape I went about 1/2" out beyond the tape with the blue paint tape for a good looking edge, used the roller under the topper and a brush on the sides. When it dries (36 to 48hrs) it is clear and waterproof and the good part it does not leak plus it looks good. One thing, it will not stick to silicone.
Floyd 2006 Inspire 51744

It just fell off

Reply #23 –
Yahoo Message Number: 89174
Scott,

Mine did the same thing last year, except mine was on the drivers side front that came off.
I did not notice it when I either was moving the slide in or out but suddenly I found that part sticking out from beneath the carpet. It also got all bent up when this happened.
I need to get mine repaired and repainted also.

Dave

07 Country Coach Allure 430 #31495 12 Jeep GC Toad Mountains of So Cal
Dave & Jodi
2007 CC Allure 40’ Tag #31495
2012 Jeep GC
Big Bear Lake, Ca & Henderson, Nev
 

Re: It just fell off

Reply #24 –
Yahoo Message Number: 89212
Dave - There are 16 opportunities for the angles to come loose. My front bottom angle on D/S main slide was the first to go. I had to put a retaining screw in it owing to this one being part of the skid.
As for water, it started leaking long before it completely failed. Bad scene:

http://muniac.smugmug.com/Maintenance/Bus-Repairs/i-WmZ5Ftr/0/M/IMG_3487-M.jpg 10 minutes and a couple of strips of vinyl tape would have avoided all the hassles. Live and learn as they say.

Best - Scott

2006 Allure 430 40' #31349

(Bus-Stead Lemon) My Allure Page http://www.muniac.com/Allure%20Page.html