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Very unusual inverter problem

Yahoo Message Number: 97449
I have a Freedom 458 3k watt. "It" has a problem that Xantrex has never seen. I am wondering if anyone else has experienced this problem with this, or any inverter: When I am charging with the generator at higher charging levels (above 40-50 D.C. amps or so), if I turn off the generator (such as when "topping off," in the evening, the inverter--instead of instantly switching on to power things with AC--instead does not switch on for about 1 minute. As a result, I lose all AC power. After a minute or so, the inverter comes on by itself. At 40 charging amps or below, the inverter switches on instantly and I lose nothing.
This is a huge pain. It is so unusual that Xantrex offered to ship the inverter back for testing. They have it, and informed me today that it tests out operating normally and that it must be something in the coach that is causing the AC voltage to not drop off right away, essentially fooling the inverter. They suspect a transfer switch or the generator. I also have a Progressive Industries surge protector. Anyone else ever have this problem? Any ideas from the electrical whizzes? I have no other electrical problems in this coach. This problem occurred when boondocking, never hooked up to shore power for months.

Rich 2002 Magna

Re: Very unusual inverter problem

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 97450
My guess is residual power draining off from gen set and the large amp draw just before shutdown. I would not expect a high draw like that for "topping off!" Topping off implies final charge of the battery bank with low amps. 50 amps is more like bulk charge and batteries are 1/2 empty.

Ray O
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Re: Very unusual inverter problem

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 97456
Ray,

I have 6 Trojan T-105's. Bulk is more like 100 amps.

Rich 2002 Magna

Re: Very unusual inverter problem

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 97457
I agree with Ray O. In addition, shutting off the generator while it is running at or near full capacity is not good for the generator. Most generator manufacturers recommend turning off the loads and letting the generator run at low current output for 5-10 minutes before powering the generator off. This lets the rotor and stator cool down somewhat before being stopped thereby lessening the amount of heat build-up in them. Stopping it at full load means that there is no cooling and the heat will continue to build for a period of time before normal convection allows them to start cooling off. This in turn could cause warping of the rotor and/or stator metal parts as well as baking out the insulation on the wiring.

John

'06 Inspire DaVinci #51905

Re: Very unusual inverter problem

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 97458
Ray, i should add that the problem still occurred when i flipped the AC breaker on my main coach panel while the generator was running. Wouldn't this get past any generator spin down issues? The one test i have not done is to try this on shore power. Do you have this problem if you turn your generator off at higher charging levels? You shouldn't per Xantrex.

Rich 2002 Magna

Re: Very unusual inverter problem

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 97461
I have a much smaller battery bank so would almost never pull that kind of amperage from the genset except to run AC. The breaker on your panel is not feeding your inverter. A/C power is fed directly to the inverter and if your whole coach runs from the inverter it then goes to your main breaker panel.
The test with shore power could help as it will isolate the genset feed from the shorepower feed. No problem when you drop the breakers on the power pole the problem is on the genset side of the transfer switch. Still have a problem then problem is inverter side of switch, or the switch itself.

Ray

They say wine improves with age! As I enter my golden years, I say age improves with wine! The Born Loser

Re: Very unusual inverter problem

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 97466
John,

Thank for the info. I am aware of that. My Onan 8k when has Freedom charging at 50 -90 amps is not using more than 25% of gen capacity. Not even close to full load.

Rich 2002 Magna
 

Re: Very unusual inverter problem

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 97467
Ray, you are right, killing shore power while charging will be the key test. I cannot do that until I get my inverter back from Xantrex. I just spoke with Butch Williams, who, as usual, seems to have homed in on the problem while the manufacturers of my systems cannot: He said this is common problem: when the generator shuts off, the voltage on the Onan does not ramp down for 20 seconds or more (they have actually observed this using an oscilloscope) producing exactly the results I get since the transfer switch does not disengage for at least that period of time so the inverter is seeing voltage long after the genset shuts down. Onan this morning told me that this is impossible. Apparently not.
Butch has fixed this problem by installing some kind of relay between the genset and the transfer switch that triggers the transfer switch instantly the moment it see a shut off signal from the gen switches or Silverleaf. This is a big job apparently and I am always at least 2000 miles from Butch. You might not notice this unless you boondock and have TV or other systems operating at the time.

I will be talking with Onan next week...

Rich 2002 Magna