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Battery woes and/or 12V drain?

Yahoo Message Number: 103448
Rather suddenly my house batteries have refused to hold a charge.  I have a pair of 8D Lifeline AGMs that are less than 5 years old (installed Dec 2010).  Within the last month they have dropped to 10.5 volts overnight when dry camping, with no obvious significant load.  However, when I turn on the so-called "salesman switch" by the entry door, they seem to hold their voltage overnight.    This suggests there may be a significant phantom draw ... or maybe my batteries are just shot.

When the batteries are low (10.5V) the charger or generator brings them back to full charge much more quickly that expected, like less than ½ hour, according to my Xantrex display.  Perhaps this suggests the batteries have a diminished capacity?

I have always taken very good care of these batteries, never letting them drop below 12.2V, so I expected them to last a fair bit longer.  I also benefit from 400W of solar, which helps keep the voltage up.  My previous AGMs lasted for over 7 years and were subjected to more abuse than this pair.

My questions:

  • Can anyone think of a significant    phantom load, particularly a new one, that might be causing my    problem?
  • Lifeline describes a capacity test    whereby you add a 25A load to the fully charged battery, measure the    time until the battery reaches 10.5 volts, and compare that time to    the specification.  They say conventional battery load testers are    not reliable to determine the actual capacity.  I have not performed    this test yet, because I don't know how to determine a 25A load.  All    my meters seem to be limited to 10A.  Any suggestion on how to find    a 25A load device?
  • Most folks say not to equalize AGM    batteries, but Lifeline describes a procedure to "condition" the    batteries, which is very similar to equalization of flooded cells.     It involves a charging voltage of ~15.5-16V, depending on the    temperature, for 8 hours.  Has anyone ever conditioned their AGMs?     Was it effective?  Any problems or issues?

I appreciate any advice or wisdom.

Myron

2004 Allure 31040

Re: Battery woes and/or 12V drain?

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 103450
Dirty battery cable connections may be the issue. If they are good charge  the batteries disconnect them from the coach and each other, let them rest for 2  hours then measure the voltage of each one and report back with the readings. I  can tell from the readings their condition. Depending on the voltages an  equalization may help.

Mikee

Re: Battery woes and/or 12V drain?

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 103451
Follow on if the below doesn't reveal the issue then have the batteries load tested, it will bring out a bad cell.

Ray

They say wine improves with age! As I enter my golden years, I say age improves with wine! The Born Loser

Re: Battery woes and/or 12V drain?

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 103452
Myron,

Though I have wet cells in my Magna I had Liflines in my Allure. I ran an equalize charge routinely each of the eight years I had that coach and those batteries. When I sold the coach they still performed very well. I had 240 watts of solar and always had a de-sulphator device on the batteries also.

I don't know what your current problem is but your RC7GS should show the current drain at any given time.

I would fully charge the battery bank and then equalize. Can't hurt and might help.

George in Birmingham
'03 Magna 6298
George in Birmingham
2003 Magna 6298

Re: Battery woes and/or 12V drain?

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 103453
SUBJECT: RIDE HEIGHT

Sorry can't seem to get a new subject started.

Hi All,

I need to get into a low clearance Garage tonight. My question is: can I use the Dump function to back in and out of a Garage if I do not set it to the "travel mode" to lower the Coach or does it go into Travel Mode when I put it in gear and automatically raise the Coach. Thanks for the help, sorry for the Subject Line problem !

Chris

'03 Magna 42' #6269   

Re: Battery woes and/or 12V drain?

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 103454
Chris,

If you have a Travel Mode button on your HWH  controller panel then you likely have the newer digital controller. In this case  the raise and lower button should be a latch type and stays locked in once you  push the button. It will continue to raise or lower the coach until the Travel  Mode or the Stop button  is pushed. It should not try to go to travel mode  when you put it in gear. The older analog controllers do not have a Travel Mode  button and here the raise/lower buttons are a momentary contact. You must hold  the button while you move the coach as releasing it will drop the controller  back into ride height mode. Be sure you understand this important difference as  being wrong could be disastrous when backing into a garage with low clearance.  Drop me an off line email if you need further clarification.

Don Seager

Former CC Owner

Re: Battery woes and/or 12V drain?

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 103456
Mikee,

The cables and connections appear to be clean, as well as the tops of the cases; I doubt that is the issue.
 I  could disconnect, let rest and measure voltage, as you suggested, but based on recent  experience cutting off "salesman switch" I would expect zero voltage  drop in 2 hours.  Recently, while fully charged, when I cut off the  coach using this switch there was zero voltage drop overnight.  Do you  think your test would show any different results?  In my prior  observation, the battery bank was still connected, so perhaps one  battery was carrying/masking the other?

Myron

Re: Battery woes and/or 12V drain?

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 103460
Myron, how old your Lifelines (or other type of batteries) are is really not relevant. What is relevant is how many times they have been cycled and how deep those cycles have been. This is what determines battery life, not years, even if you did not let them drop below 12.2 V. You do not mention how you use them. I had Lifelines for my house batteries. I boondock 4 months a year and they would be around 50% discharged almost every day. They lasted about 5 years under such use. I also have Lifelines for my chassis batteries which, after 7 years are still perfectly good because they have hardly been cycled. I hate to tell you, when my 8D Lifelines finally went, they exhibited symptoms very similar to yours, but failed under a load. One big difference is that mine house Lifelines were always equalized a few times a year as Lifeline instructed me to do under the usage I put them through, and you should definitely equalize yours which may very well bring them back, having never been equalized. Just use your inverter on an equalization cycle for 8 hours.

Rich 2002 Magna

Re: Battery woes and/or 12V drain?

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 103461
I will just mention for everyone else that I went from the Lifeline house to Trojan T-105 golf cart batteries since I could fit 6 of them in the tray with slight mods and due to reduced cost.  I will, however, go back to Lifelines when these Trojans wear out for one reason: Any savings in initial cost is greatly outweighed by the cost of extra generator diesel since the Trojans take MUCH longer to accept a charge than the Lifeline AGM's. This is only an issue if you boondock a lot.

Rich 2002 Magna

Re: Battery woes and/or 12V drain?

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 103462
Don, on the ride height issue: I have a travel mode button as well as raise and lower buttons. On my 2002, the moment you remove the parking brake, it goes back to ride height automatically. I have heard something about holding down some button which will keep the coach in the raised or lowered position and keep it from going to ride height. I have never understood exactly what button and on this coach it would pretty much be physically impossible to be holding down any HWH button and also driving the coach given the location of the HWH panel. You would need two people.

Rich 2002 Magna

Re: Battery woes and/or 12V drain?

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 103465
Don,

This is not true of all HWH panels. Some do have a travel button,  but when the coach is put in gear it automatically goes to travel mode. If you  hold the dump button it will continue to dump. When you release the button it  goes to travel mode if the park brake is off or the trans is in gear.

Mikee

Re: Battery woes and/or 12V drain?

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 103466
You need to determine if you have bad batteries or a unknown load on the  batteries. This is the easiest way to start. You can use an amp meter to  determine the load. there are several ways to proceed, do as you desire.

Mikee

Re: Battery woes and/or 12V drain?

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 103470
Thank you, Both. I will just have to try and see what I have. It is a standard Factory issued '03 Magna.
Chris 

Re: Battery woes and/or 12V drain?

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 103479
Would someone please define the "salesmen's switch" for me. I've not heard the term before. Thanks

Jerry Azzara

99 CC Intrige Chef's Delite
#10702

Re: Battery woes and/or 12V drain?

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 103481
Battery disconnect switch not really sure why some people call it salesman switch.

Ray O

Re: Battery woes and/or 12V drain?

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 103482
The house shut-off battery switch is called by some the salesman switch, because when a salesman has completed showing the coach to a customer he is suppose to turn that switch off to shut everything off in the coach  so the battery does not go dead.

Steve

08 Magna 6879
 

Re: Battery woes and/or 12V drain?

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 103486
Myron,

When I had the similar rapid battery depletion and battery recharge experience, I discovered by isolating and testing everything one step at a time starting at each battery, that I had a low battery because a terminal cable connecting the battery terminal to a connector "stud" on the wall in my battery compartment was bad. apparently the cable weight and/or the tension from pulling out the battery tray over time had separated the conductor within the cable from it's terminal fitting. For little expense a NAPA dealer sold me a new fitting and installed it on my old cable. I found their charge very reasonable -especially compared to the price I was about to pay for new batteries. I think I got about 3 more years service from them before replacement.
Good luck!

Kent McCoin 5801

42' 2000 Affinity B&B w/2012 JKU Rubicon