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Dead batteries

Yahoo Message Number: 8233
Monday morning I needed to start the engine, and found the batteries dead--or nearly dead. It has been only 7 days since I last drove the coach.
The only thing that has changed it that I programmed the Trace so that I would have the automatic generator start function on. I don't see how that would affect the coach batteries.

I ran the generator for a couple of hours and then the engine started and I let it run for 30 minutes or so. I tried it 4 hours later, and it would not start. A friend pressed the "booster" button, and the engine started immediately.

Why is the booster button located up on the panel over the door so that it cannot be reached when needed? Doesn't do any good when you are by yourself!

This morning, Tuesday, I used a mop handle to press the booster button and got the engine started. On the Silverleaf, I went to the diagnostics mode and had the following information:

ID    FMI N Description
70   11   1   Lift pump fault
70   11   2   Lift pump fault
251   2   8   ECM power fault

190   10   1   Lost engine RPM signal

On the last two messages, the codes sometimes flashed "inactive".
Suggestions on what to look for would be appreciated. I hate not knowing anything about this "guy stuff".

Ree

Full-Timin' in 2003 Allure 30852

Currently at www.eldoradoranch.com near www.sanfelipe.com.mx

Re: Dead batteries

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 8235
Ree,

Sounds like the problem is the engine start circuit. The gen auto start on the trace is a function of the house batteries and not the start battery. You confirmed this by pushing the boost button that tied the battery banks together and got you started. Running the generator for a couple of hours won't do the start battery much good because of the charger, but will bring the house batteries up to the the float if they weren't discharged to bad. Sounds like the Sivlerleaf is pointing to low voltage. You may have a cable connection problem or relay in the start circuit. It seems strange that the generator would start OK, but not the engine. I am assuming the house batteries were OK. By the way, my boost switch is a rocker switch on the lights, exhaust, etc. panel left of the drivers seat by the transmission select.
Good luck..
Tom

02 Allure 30780

Re: Dead batteries

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 8240
Ree, On my 03 Allure, there is also a bat boost switch on the trans console to the driver's left. Has a battery icon on it.
Seems running the engine should recharge the start battery?

Bill Harris

03 Allure 1st Ave 30912

Re: Dead batteries

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 8245
Tom mentioned the booster on the console and I tried it last night---and it worked. It looks just like the battery disconnect switch by the passenger seat, so I figured that was what it was. When running the engine, the batteries appear to be charging, but goes back down very quickly.

Ree

Full-Timin' in 2003 Allure 30852

Currently at www.eldoradoranch.com near www.sanfelipe.com.mx

Re: Dead batteries

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 8250
Ree,

Another "guy" thing to check..... you may have a dead cell in your starting battery. Have the individual cells checked. If one is bad it might be drawing the overall power down.

Dick May
2002 Intrigue, #11438

Re: Dead batteries

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 8251
Thanks, Dick. I did check the batteries, the first thing. One cell was low in water. A guy here said that one cell low would not cause the problem. Is that correct or would it? It was only a few weeks ago that I had checked the water and all were okay.

Ree

Full-Timin' in 2003 Allure 30852

Currently at www.eldoradoranch.com near www.sanfelipe.com.mx

Re: Dead batteries

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 8258
I don't think low water by itself would be a problem.... depending on how low it was. If the plates were above the water line it could very well be a problem. "They" say that spells death to a battery.
Have you had the cells checked with a hydrometer? The specific gravity tells all about the condition of the battery.

Dick May
2002 Intrigue, #11438

Re: Dead batteries

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 8262
Thanks, Dick, for the information. I will look for somebody to test it. Now, assuming it is dead---If I get the coach started, will it keep running to get it to to the states? I plan on going to Tucson in March. Secondly, I have the AGM batteries. Does anybody know off hand what the warranty is on them?

Ree

Full-Timin' in 2003 Allure 30852

Currently at www.eldoradoranch.com near www.sanfelipe.com.mx

Re: Dead batteries

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 8264
Ree,

Forgive a silly question: is you starting battery an AGM? I think you said that the water was checked in the starting battery so I guessed it was a standard wet cell.
Once your coach has been started the battery is just extra weight. Even without holding a charge you should be able to reach your destination with the boost switch for starting if the chassis battery won't do the job on its own.
I don't remember the warranty on the AGMs. It should be in your 'package' that came with the coach. As I recall it is a declining warranty.... Something like 100% for the 1st year and less each additional year ending, I think, after year 5. give CC a call for the real story.

Let me know if you find that I have it wrong.

Dick May
2002 Intrigue, #11438

Re: Dead batteries

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 8265
Sorry, but you will need that chassis battery to keep going. The alternator requires energy from the battery to generate power. The ignition system requires battery power too. Engine electronics also require battery power.

You may get down the road but a piece but you will stop when the battery looses it's charge just like running out of fuel. CC is not a perpetual machines.

Start looking for a good 8D wet cell. Newell uses only wet cell and lots of them.
Paul

Re: Dead batteries

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 8266
You are correct, of course, Dick. The house batteries are AGM, the engine batteries are wet cells. Just did not think before I wrote. It is 180 miles to Yuma from where I am. The first 120 miles, the roads are very narrow and for the most part no shoulder to pull off onto if necessary. Not a fun trip. I had not planned on driving the coach from here until I go to Tucson in March.
I will send CC an e-mail tomorrow and get their advice. Need to talk to them about "stuff" that I would like done at the rally.

Thanks for your help.

Ree

Full-Timin' in 2003 Allure 30852

Currently at www.eldoradoranch.com near www.sanfelipe.com.mx

Dead batteries

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 96181
Hi all - sorry for the length of this post - the story just kept growing as I was trying to explain my problem!!

First: I have been trying for several days to access the Yahoo Group home so I could try to search for some answers, but I cannot get into it. Google searches tell me that many, many people have the same issues and that it is generally due to Yahoo "server issues"?, but it is very frustrating.

With that said, here's my latest problem: my batteries suddenly went "dead"?! I am in a park with 110v shore power hooked up and have been here for 4+ weeks, no problems. In the middle of the night (2am) I get warning voice alarm that my batteries' voltage is falling below acceptable (I don't remember the exact message). Very shortly thereafter I lost all DC devices, my refrigerator went off, and my carbon monoxide alarm began beeping. The Xantrex remote indicated voltage below 10v. All of the 110v devices (TVs, Microwave, coffee pot, outlets). In the morning we had a tee-time, so went off to play golf and when we returned, all was back to normal. The batteries seemed to be fully charged and all of our devices worked fine. I have zero knowledge about electrical systems in the coach, so I was very relieved.

BUT - At midnight the next night the entire scenario was repeated, and this time the batteries have not come back. I spent some time Googling and reading the coach documentation but can't find anything obviously at fault. The Xantrex seems to be working but no DC devices are coming back up - the remote indicates "charging" but batteries remain dead (and the coach will not start either - turning the ignition key there is no response). Because there have been no RV service providers available over the weekend, I decided to try charging the batteries with an external charger, to see what would happen.

I connected a battery charger to the lower tray of batteries (domestics) both batteries tested as "bad" (service or replace). In the upper tray, the charger seems to be working, all of the DC devices came up almost immediately and have been working all night. The charger is still on the battery and it seems like it is not going to go above 25% charge, but all devices are working fine (perhaps just working off of the charger through the battery??).

I am now wondering if perhaps the batteries are just bad? My next move is to pull all four batteries out and take them to an RV service place and have them tested. The batteries (Interstate 8Ds) are only 2 years old, which seems to be an awful short life. Any thoughts or suggestions that anyone has would be enormously appreciated!!

Jim Whiting
'99 Magna #5634

Re: Dead batteries

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 96183
Jim What amp service are you hooked to. 15 or 30. My CC owners Manual advises against lower than 50amp service for other than emergency situations and cautions that doing so may result in damage to electronic devices/appliances in the coach. Lance 2000 CC affinity 5873

Re: Dead batteries

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 96196
Jim,

Give Tom a call at trans-specialists about your battery needs. He is a member of the group and I am sure he can fix you up with a quality product. I was never a big fan of Interstate batteries, but that's my opinion. Tom is at 770-634-7530.

Fred '01 Magna #5983

Re: Dead batteries

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 96208
It could be the batteries. I had 2 Interstate AGM 8 D batteries go dead after one year and one month. You will find there is no warranty. Good luck.
Bud

'94 Affinity
 

Re: Dead batteries

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 96210
1. Have you tested the shore power connection? If it fails, your battery charge will fail.

2. Have you tested the house battery terminals with good shore power connected and with it disconnected? Connected with battery charger (in your inverter) turned on should be about 13.6 to 14.4 dcv.
Disconnected will give status of batteries themselves.

3. Are the three breakers on your inverter all engaged, or has the internal inverter transfer switch breaker popped out. If popped there will be no shore power to your inverter's battery charger. (I assume it is a heart freedom inverter.)
4. You will likely have 2 300A T class fuses in your house system. One in the battery compartment and one near the inverter. One of these may have failed and give your symptoms. (There is a battery wiring diagram in your CC manual along with many other schematics and wire number listings and from/to destinations.)
5. Check your battery terminal connections. They should be tight, free of crud where they contact, and the ground connection at the frame should also be tight and clean. Now is a good time to clean them up.

6. Is the battery charger remote (if you have one like a Link 2000 etc) turned on?
7. If your house batteries will not accept a charge from the external battery charger but the chassis batteries do, then the batteries are likely toast.

8. Start the engine, and test the house battery terminals. The alternator should deliver 13.5 dvc to your battery terminals. If it does, perhaps you can pull out of the RV park to a neutral zone and let the engine run a bit to see if the house batteries gain some charge after 30 minutes or so.

9. At the same time, start your generator also. You may get enough charge to the house batteries to allow the inverter's internal charger to begin to charge the house batteries.

10. To get the rig ready to move to the neutral zone, run a jumper cable from the engine battery positive cable to the house battery positive cable. That will allow the house 12v systems to work. Turn off the inverter function but not the battery charger function on your inverter.