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Delivery Outside of California

Yahoo Message Number: 11804
Just a point of clarification. I believe if you read the appropriate California Government Code section and/or the brochure produced by the California Board of Equalization, you will find that 91 consecutive days of out of state use is not required. It is out of state delivery and "use" out of state more than 50% of the time during the first 180 days of ownership. This will of course increase (double) as of 10/1/04.
Ray

Allure #30819

Re: Delivery Outside of California

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11805
A point of correction (as the previous post contained several errors), pertaining to the old CALIFORNIA law which expires 09/30/2004:

There are two ways to qualify for the official exemption from USE (often referred to as SALES) tax. Major points are --

(1) Take delivery out of California and USE it for 91 days before bringing it to CA. To help prove use, you must have receipts for food, cellular phone, RV Park, etc. Then you can enter CA with the coach. The 91 days of USE does not have be consecutive but you must keep it out of state during the whole time (e.g., use it for 60 days, store it for 35 days, use it for another 31 days -- storage days do not count.)

(2) This second approach is not well known but in my opinion is the preferred way to go -- if you are taking delivery close to CA. Take delivery out of CA, USE it for one or more day out of CA, then bring it into CA (and document its entry with an RV Park receipt -- all previous time out of state does not count) -- the clock now starts.
From this point in time, you have to "USE and/or STORE" the coach out of state for more than half (but one BOE publication says half or more - a fine distinction of one day) of the next SIX MONTHS (not 180 days -- thay can catch you on that!). This approach allows you to load and repair your coach, if necessary, in CA. My example which qualified and passed audit: Delivery and use out of CA 6 days, in CA 30 days, out 30 days (using it on some weekends only), in CA 30 days, out 30 days, in 4 days, out 17 days, in 7 days, out 16 days -- qualified with 93 days out of state. Interesting note is that at one point a few years ago, the law was changed, for clairity, from "USE or STORE" to "USE and/or STORE" to show that the time upon this second optin can really be a mix of the two.

I can't speak with reasonable knowledge yet about the revised law which still offers an exemption.

These are not loopholes but the what the law allows.

p.s. While I refer to "days" it is really easier to count "nights". The Board of Equalization was happy with that.

Herb

Forum Moderator

Quote from: smip30

Re: Delivery Outside of California

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11807
Herb:

You gave a very accurate description of the old law as I understand it. In my case the coach stayed out of CA for 105 days with weekend use only (we both were at Bordertown, NV at the same time). I did cross the border into CA to buy fuel on day 4 of ownership after the out of state delivery.

The result was that I could qualify whichever way the DOE interpreted the rules. The letter from the DOE was a pleasure to receive.
The new rule posted for October 1,2004 to July 2006 seems to say that if you register your vehicle in CA, there is no exemption. Does anyone have a different interpretation?

Thanks

Dean

95 Magna 5280

Quote from: Herb & Melitta\[br\
Strandberg"]
A point of correction (as the previous post contained several
errors), pertaining to the old CALIFORNIA law which expires
09/30/2004:

There are two ways to qualify for the official exemption from
USE (often referred to as SALES) tax. Major points are --

(1) Take delivery out of California and USE it for 91 days before
bringing it to CA. To help prove use, you must have receipts for > food, cellular phone, RV Park, etc. Then you can enter CA with the > coach. The 91 days of USE does not have be consecutive but you

must

Quote
keep it out of state during the whole time (e.g., use it for 60 > days, store it for 35 days, use it for another 31 days -- storage > days do not count.)
> (2) This second approach is not well known but in my opinion is the > preferred way to go -- if you are taking delivery close to CA.

Take

Quote
delivery out of CA, USE it for one or more day out of CA, then

bring

Quote
it into CA (and document its entry with an RV Park receipt -- all > previous time out of state does not count) -- the clock now

starts.

Quote
From this point in time, you have to "USE and/or STORE" the coach > out of state for more than half (but one BOE publication says half > or more - a fine distinction of one day) of the next SIX MONTHS

(not

Quote
180 days -- thay can catch you on that!). This approach allows you > to load and repair your coach, if necessary, in CA. My example > which qualified and passed audit: Delivery and use out of CA 6 > days, in CA 30 days, out 30 days (using it on some weekends only), > in CA 30 days, out 30 days, in 4 days, out 17 days, in 7 days, out > 16 days -- qualified with 93 days out of state. Interesting note

is

Quote
that at one point a few years ago, the law was changed, for > clairity, from "USE or STORE" to "USE and/or STORE" to show that

the

Re: Delivery Outside of California

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11809
I read your previous post on this subject, and I questioned how you were legal in the eyes of California law for anytime you exceeded twenty days having the vehicle in California. My understanding is that if you are a California resident (determined by employment and and a residence in California), you have 20 days to license the vehicle, and my understanding is CHP is currently into revenue generation for the state, so they even ask neighbors to rat on each other. Also, during that six month period, what is the status of registration? Do you drive on dealer plates? No plates? Is the vehicle in the process of being registered? And, how do insure this vehicle during this period, as a full-timing vehicle?
Sorry for all the questions. I just don't want anyone to believe it is an easy process to accomplish this endeavor.

Warren

Re: Delivery Outside of California

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11811
Quote from: Warren Leuning
> I read your previous post on this subject, and I questioned how

you were

Quote
legal in the eyes of California law for anytime you exceeded

twenty days

Quote
having the vehicle in California. My understanding is that if you

are a

Quote
California resident (determined by employment and and a residence

in

Quote
California), you have 20 days to license the vehicle, and my
understanding

Quote
is CHP is currently into revenue generation for the state, so they

even ask

Quote
neighbors to rat on each other. Also, during that six month
period, what is

Quote
the status of registration? Do you drive on dealer plates? No

plates? Is

Quote
the vehicle in the process of being registered? And, how do

insure this

Quote
vehicle during this period, as a full-timing vehicle? >

Sorry for all the questions. I just don't want anyone to believe

it is an

Quote
easy process to accomplish this endeavor.

Warren
 _____
You do need to license the vehicle in CA ifyou are a resident, and if you buy it from a CA dealership, that part is easy. If you buy it from an out-of-state dealership, you will be required to take it to CA to have a DMV employee (or County Sheriff as I did) check the VIN and fill out just one more form before it can be licensed.
After all that is completed, you can pick up your plates and leave the state.

All other things aside, please remember that if you are audited, you will be dealing with a bureaucrat who will be interpreting the law.
Some will be fair, some will not. Make sure you have all of the documentation to cover yourself and above all be nice to them. If you are in any way discourteous, they will take the hard line.

Carol

'04 Inspire Genoa 51046

Re: Delivery Outside of California

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11833
I called the California Board of Equalization (BOE) (916-445-5742) yesterday and was referred to Sheila Sarem (916-445-6579) in the Legislative branch of the BOE. Sheila evidently takes the new regulations and new laws and prepares BOE publications and documentation for their implementation. We contrasted the old and new regulations to identify the differences.

An important part of the old program was that a California resident still registers their vehicle in California ? don't mess with registration in OR, etc if you are a CA resident.

The new law says that if you are a California Resident and register the vehicle in CA, forget any USE TAX exemption. The only possible way for a CA resident to get an exemption would be to register the vehicle in another state. Of course, this is very very risky, unless, for example, you own a vacation home on Colorado and you buy a car to keep at your Colorado vacation home and obtain Colorado registration. In this case, you would have to keep the car out of state half of the 12 months, before you could bring it back permanently to your CA home and re-license it for CA without tax.
It would seem harder to justify a motorhome, but one might be able to do it with an out of state ownership of a RV lot (such as Outdoor Resort) and licensing it in that state.

I posed a hypothetical question: A CA resident workamps in West Yellowstone MO for 4 months, and 5 months in Arizona, returning to their property in CA for 1.5 months between each out of state period. Answer: They are a California resident and the vehicle is registered in CA ? no exemption.

It appears that a California resident must have a VERY legitimate reason to register the coach out of state to claim a USE TAX exemption for all deliveries on or after 10/01/2004. As before, don't use the address of a relative or friend in Oregon.

I will call Sheila back today to ask another question: It would seem under the new law, that DELIVERY out of state would not be a key item. Also will ask about the time proof required for the Colorado example above.
Herb

Forum Moderator
From Branson MO
www.suncitykid.com/where

Quote from: Herb & Melitta\[br\
Strandberg"]

Re: Delivery Outside of California

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11836
Herb, I have receive conflicting input on other items from our state employees. As a test all them again and talk to a different person and see if the same answer is given. Texas is a mess when people inquire about drivers license requirement, and the testing one needs, license fess etc. You get multiple answers depending on who you talk too.

Just a thought!
Skip
=====

I will call Sheila back today to ask another question: It would seem under the new law, that DELIVERY out of state would not be a key item. Also will ask about the time proof required for the Colorado example above. Herb
 

Re: Delivery Outside of California

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11837
I agree. However the help desk or tax specialist do not know the details of the new laws yet. I was referred to her as the most knowledgeable person about the new law pertaining to vehicle delivery. The legislative branch of the BOE works with how the new laws affect the BOE operation.

Yes, I have called the BOE many times before (1-3 years ago) and talked with the first person that answered, and have been told false information (with their own spin of the morality of CA coach owners). I now always ask for a specialist and sometimes double check with a re-call. When I took my documentation to the BOE, it was reviewed in person, and I was congratulated for having the best organized documentation he had ever seen.

At this point, Sheila appears to be our best resource (as well as the actual bill itself which I seem to recall was pretty exemptive about CA residents) until we can apply our own interpretation to the BOE documentations once it is published and then question the BOE.
Sometimes the language in the actual bill is hard to follow.

Herb

Forum Moderator

Quote from: Skip Knowles
> Herb, I have receive conflicting input on other items from our
state employees. As a test all them again and talk to a different person and see if the same answer is given. Texas is a mess when people inquire about drivers license requirement, and the testing one needs, license fess etc. You get multiple answers depending on who you talk too.

Quote
>

Just a thought!

Skip
=====

I will call Sheila back today to ask another question: It would
seem under the new law, that DELIVERY out of state would not be a key item. Also will ask about the time proof required for the Colorado example above. Herb