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Has anyone talked with Mr. Howard about varia...

Yahoo Message Number: 17218
Kary,

Come to rallies and tell Bob Lee or the president of CCI, be positive, most CC owners do not want to sit thru bitch sessions. We all have seen worse with other companies. Coaches are like boats, They are rolling earth quakes. We drive them on bad roads, faster then we should, park them in a field with poor power, leave them out in all kinds of weather and build them from components mente for other uses. What can we expect? I suspect when coaches are built as long as cars they will get better. But this industry is still small and not very profitable. Even the Japanese are not interested. Maybe the Chinese will build one someday when they take over Wal Mart.

Bill G. 2005 Magna #6425

Re: Has anyone talked with Mr. Howard about varia...

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 17226
I cannot believe this post. You WANT the Japanese and Koreans to put Country Coach (and other American manufactures) out of businesss! How can you posssibly say this?
Let me know if I am out of line here, but I find this post totally unacceptable.

Al (Happy with my coach)

2000 Intrigue 10979

Re: Has anyone talked with Mr. Howard about varia...

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 17258
Kary,

My Magna spec says my hitch is a 10,000 # class III hitch. Is that a 600# tongue weight or is the Magna more equipped then the Inspire? The reason I ask is that your problem is with the dealer sales person, not CC. And you are asking CC to do something they should not be doing because some salesman said it was OK. Sorry but that is really reaching out. When you want to tow something that big then you need to do your homework and not trust it to some salesman who wants to sell you a coach. We have always purchased our coaches at rallies because there you can talk to the CC engineers and get the real scoop not some pipe dreams. You are towing about as much as you should be towing and I would thank CC for telling you to get an equalizing hitch verses them modifying their hitch. After all I don't want to be the one seeing your trailer coming at me on some highway. Last month I saw a motorhome come into Lazy Days with the entire engine compartment totaled where a large SUV went into the coach in a panic stop which broke the car hitch. There is a lot of pressure back there and I would do whatever they say whether you were lied to or not. The life you save may be mine. I'm sorry if this seams so negative but I keep hearing about you and what you want to do with no concern for the safety of others. You have some very real grips for the dealer but don't take it out on CC because they are just trying to help and stay within the legal limits of what they can do and how the coach is rated. We see hugh trailers being towed everyday and most of them are over loaded for the coach that is towing them. You do not want to be in an accident where you are over the vehicle limits.

Bill G. 2005 Magna #6425

Re: Has anyone talked with Mr. Howard about varia...

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 17260
Bill, thank you for your opinion but for whatever the reason you are a bit misinformed about the sequence of events in my situation.

I did not call Country Coach, the dealer passed it off to Country Coach since they would do nothing about their misinformed sale.
Country Coach has now pushed this back to the dealer to configure properly. Additionally, Country Coach admitted, though not in writing, that their advertising is misleading as did the attorney I consulted on this issue. They should post the actual numbers for tongue capacity since they felt the need to focus on a large 10,000 lb number that is not attainable in their configuration. That alone is cause for alarm, don't you think? Secondly, the dealer service department said everything would be fine even though it was overloading the hitch set up (after the sale, not before). I knew that it was not capable of handling above 600 lbs of tongue weight after reading the many pages of documenation and discussed that with Country Coach when the dealer pushed it off to Country Coach. Third, Country Coach seemed to feel that a class III hitch determined the receiver size of 2 inches and had nothing to do with the weight carrying capacity which is not correct. Again, I think I am not the only one who needs to get the facts straight about towing capacities and capabilities.

Secondly, I did do my home work but did not get the manuals out and go through the many pages to find the one paragraph that states the lopsided numbers of 10,000 lbs and 600 lbs prior to sale. How many of you got under the your coach and checked the actual axle capaity from the manufacturer? Weighed your coach prior to purchasing? Drove your coach with your trailer on it prior to purchasing? Know what the four corners actually weighs prior to purchase? KNow what the weight distributing axles weights will be prior to putting them on? Hey, the list is endless, that is what the dealership is for is to answer questions, correctly and honestly. If they cannot, then what is the use of a dealership, which is what I pointed out to Country Coach.
Heck, even after Country Coach recommended a weight distributing hitch, I asked them what the weight distribution would be? They did not know. They did not know how to cacluate it. I told them what it would be. Obvously you feel the same way about dealerships because you do not use the dealership, you go to rallies to buy coaches.
Sorry, my mistake for using the dealership to help select a coach that is suitable for my needs!

Frankly your first sentence tells me you do not understand trailer standards as 600 lbs, using a 9 to 15 percent tongue weight load is only around a 6000 lbs payload to balance correctly for a trailer, not 10,000 lbs. Furthermore a class III hitch is really only rated to 5000 lbs which I questioned at purchase since all the documentation (which you can check on-line in the specifications section) shows 10,000 and a class III hitch. Again, Country Coach admitted that for trailers, this set up was really not that accurate. No tongue weights were mentioned except where buried in the loads of documentation that is largely useless in most cases. And yes, your coach is the same as mine, which is equally as poor given you likely have a tag axle in a Magna.

Did Country Coach try and help, yes they did. I appreciate that I was was clear to them that I appreciated their help. By the same token, they are also a bit off in their numbers, calssifications, and understanding of trailering. Additionally, they have a problem with this (and maybe other) dealerships representing their products accurately. Something I think, as a business man, I would want to change if it were happening.

Sorry Bill, but your post really rubs me the wrong way on so many levels......

Re: Has anyone talked with Mr. Howard about varia...

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 17279
Kary,

Sorry Kary but I did do all those things you mentioned and I never try to make my coach do more then it is designed to do. Thats why I purchased my 3rd CC and thats why we custom built it to not include all the things people think they need. Our coach is a 40 foot, 3 slide Magna. It is that way because I don't want to drive a coach that is at it's limits and then put all my stuff in it. The highway is full of coaches that are over loaded, I see them pass me everyday doing 75 mph. Some people don't like my opinions but thats your choise. I love hanging out at the Lazy Days Crown Club and hearing all these stories. You need to make some decisions based on what you purchased and stop trying to get other people to take the blame.

Bill G. 2005 Magna #6425

Re: Has anyone talked with Mr. Howard about varia...

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 17281
Bill,

Forgive me for not understanding your point of view. It is one that continues to avoid the issue of why coaches are overloaded on the highways. Read my post again and you will see that the dealer was told by myself and Country Coach that it would be overloaded (for whatever the reason, rear axle, hitch, etc) and they still advised me to go ahead and use it above ther recommended limits. I think you need to look at why coaches are overloaded on the highways and the industry itself needs to take responsibility for providing accurate information. Obviously it took your three times to get yours right, that is rather stupid in my opinion!
Secondly, I am taking responsibility for my situation and for others who are overloading their coaches by raising these issues as there are many (other than yourself) that have e-mailed me in support of my position. It seems rather a crime to have to see so many people respond to such a situation that have experienced the same thing. Why do you think that is? Well all these people are not stupid that is for sure.

After re-reading your original post, I find your statement rather arrogant that I am endangering others when I have yet to tow anything behind my coach. Furthermore you do not even know what the weight of my trailer is loaded for my purposes. Frankly, you need to stop speaking without the facts.

And yes, I do not like your opinions as they are ill informed.

Kary

Re: Has anyone talked with Mr. Howard about varia...

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 17284
Bill !

At what point in your life did you realize that you knew everything, must have been a Wonderful day for you and your wife.
Sorry to all you other fine folks in this group I usually just delete anything with Bills name attached to it.
Damn I just don't understand what he is trying to accomplish, he is defiantly not being helpful. That's why most of us like this group is for the help. When you read a post and can't be helpful just move on.
Why does he think it is his duty to keep stirring the pot and try to make Kary feel worse about their problem. And other past post also. I'm sure Kary's blood pressure is all ready high enough over this without Bills help.

I think you owe Kary an apology.
Mac. Allure #30032

gablerwh@... wrote:

Re: Has anyone talked with Mr. Howard about varia...

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 17285
I agree that this group is wonderful because you can get help on any issue, from people that have been there and done that. Unfortunately, some people instead of helping want to have a pulpit from which they can exclaim how much they know and how everybody else is ignorant. I sugest we all step back and focus on what other people are asking and give them help, not criticism. As for the latest series of emails, I suggest you both stop. Nothing of value is added by you two responding to each others comments.

Al

2000 Intrigue 10979

Re: Has anyone talked with Mr. Howard about varia...

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 17286
Al, Mac,

I appreciate your comments and agree with you on all levels. I will follow your advice in terms of this thread as I was done with it after my last post regardless of response. Nothing good was going to come from it obviously.

I appreciate the group here and want to make a difference for the collective group in whatever way I can.

Kary & Carolyn
05 Inspire #51499

Re: Has anyone talked with Mr. Howard about varia...

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 17326
Kary,

You are doing the same thing that many people have done before you, and I'm not going to waste anymore time kicking this dead horse around. This is nothing new and when you have been around for a few years you will understand the business. By the way just because I have owned 3 Country Coaches, one Safari, and one Southwind does not mean I screwed up my first purchase, I just like traveling in a motor coach especially classy ones. Remember this is not a money saving decision, it is a life style decision. You asked for our opinions and some you did not like. But if you are going to continue to own a motor coach you had better be prepared to spend lots of time and money before you get it right.

Bill G.

Re: Has anyone talked with Mr. Howard about varia...

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 17329
Mac,

Sorry, but I don't like being on the road with people who don't want to use the coach the way it was intended or read the manuals. Many wants to over load their coaches, then drive them to fast and ignor the limits built into this equipment. They never want to learn about what they are driving before they buy and then they blame everything on the manufacturer. But if you like that I'll keep quiet and just laugh at all the postings. I don't own anybody an apology for telling the truth. Look me up at the horse races at the CCI Rally I'll be glad to show you where the 65 mph ratings are on the tires then you will know something about my postings. I'll be on the road for the next 3 months so I'll save my air time for something productive.

Bill G.
 

Re: Has anyone talked with Mr. Howard about varia...

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 17407
Hi Ray,

I am now just getting caught up on all my CC user group e-mails and I was reading what you wrote on this subject. I couldn't agree with you more about what you wrote; it is one of the reasons I keep a low profile on this user group now; I mainly just lurk. I think it is a shame for folks to spend as much money as they do on these coaches and for some to have the serious problems they have. I agree with you that there is a certain complacency with the quality problems that CC has and I certainly don't buy the fact this coach is "better than others" and "that we are lucky to have the coaches we do". I myself will never buy a Class A motorhome again until there is a significant improvement in the quality and that they put some sort of diesel-hybrid engines on these coaches (to improve fuel mileage); I'll certainly never buy a new one again.
It was my hope, when I first joined this group, that this user-group could be used as a powerful voice to address some of the short-comings of the CC's with management. I even attended one of the rallies and brought it up at one of the meetings we had with group members. Maybe what I suggesting is too ambitious, especially, since most of the folks on this group are retired and want to enjoy there retirement and don't need the headaches of battling with CC.
I really don't know what the answer is, but every time this subject comes up it gets me to thinking that I wish there was a way we could collectively get CC attentions on some of these issues.

Okay, I'm done; I'll go back to lurking ...

Rick Barnette

Fulltiming in a '04, 36' Allure, 31018 In the process of buying a lot at Outdoor Resorts in Indio, Ca.