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Re: Allure-Intrigue-Magna: differences...

Reply #25 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1286
Oh my, leave it to the liberals (joeycam, degreed psychologist) and it is easy to see why the RV industry, along with the automotive industry in general, is in trouble. Go with the flow, lower your standards, why can't we all get along and numerous other "equality" aphorisms are everything we expect from such brainwashed socialists.
Whatever happened to excellence, quality, pride, self respect and good old American can do? It has been sold down the river by apathetic acquiescence encapsulated so well by phrases like "I understand how you feel" and usually followed by a litany of excusatory psycho-babble non-reasons as to why things are as they are. Good enough for joeycam maybe, but this is not the path to progress - manufacturers have to be held accountable for their products and for their promises - anything less and you become part of the problem.

Peter Harrison,
Intrigue 11066

Re: Allure-Intrigue-Magna: differences...

Reply #26 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1287
Depression is now becoming chronic, negativism prevails, complaint departments represent billions of dollars in staffing.

The point is try to look a the glass half full. All is not lost if everything is not perfect. We should not strive for a "Don't worry be happy" society but we could certainly use some cheering up.
Smile, you might like it.

Re: Allure-Intrigue-Magna: differences...

Reply #27 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1288
joeycam,

My point exactly!

You wrote "Depression is now becoming chronic, negativism prevails, complaint departments represent billions of dollars in staffing."
If a fraction of your "billions" spent handling complaints, recalls and ticked-off users was applied to design, test and quality control the world would indeed be a happier place. See, you're halfway to a solution already - there's hope for you yet!

Peter

Britannia Inc.
800-274-5245

Allure-Intrigue-Magna: differences...

Reply #28 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1289
Hello Walt,

For 2002 all CC products went to 1/2" corion to solve the cracking problems.
Anything with a tag axle is going to be impressive to turn because your wheelbase is much shorter, you can pick up the tag axle and pivot on the drive axle. Have you ever driven a new 40' IFS Intrigue with a tag axle, talk about impressive! The Monaco style slide design allows you to be more creative with floorplans, particularly a living room slide. What you loose is:
1. The nice tall bay doors that fully open under your slide room (2001 and later Allure and Intrigue), even when the slide is open. You also have much more exterior storage with a new Intrigue over a Dynasty.
2. Nothing touchs the floor on a CC, no wheel marks in your carpet or tile, no crack tiles or grout.
3. Self locking, no manual locking arms.
4. Four point locking slide room, there is a ram in each corner, the room moves straight in & out.
5. The exterior of the room is completly wrapped (like a Foretravel and
Prevost). You cannot see the mechanism, gears, arms, etc. Its all enclosed for a cleaner look.

Damon

Quote
One other thing----while in Tucson this winter I drove a 2002 Dynasty 40' > with three slides. They have not gone to IFS due to their airbag placement,

Re: Allure-Intrigue-Magna: differences...

Reply #29 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1290
Damon, your points are well taken---I did notice the lack of storage in the Dynasty, but I sure liked the interior room it opens up. I know full well Monaco hs their quality problems, too but I will look at some other coaches next time around. I didn't do that last time because I had such good luck with my '97, but my experience with the 2000 has left me feeling I should at least consider something else. I've had nothing like the list Charles has, but I'm just not very happy. At one point I was ready to file under the lemon law, but things got better after I went to the factory. Right now it seems the only problems I have are the Hurricane furnace and a roof leak, and I hope to get these fixed at Ft. Benning next week.

Regards, Walt

Re: Allure-Intrigue-Magna: differences...

Reply #30 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1291
Joey, I agree with you. My 2001 Magna is not perfect but CC has done everything to make it that way. When you work with them, they work with you.
These coaches are an earthquakes on wheels and if we took our house on the road, hit the bumps we hit and do 75 miles per hour ( which I do not do) it would have problems also. Many of the problems I hear are not items CC makes but there aren't lots of options on products for MHs. This is a small industry compared to cars and I don't think the Japenese would want anything to do with it. At one time we had another brand mentioned in Damon's note and I got out of the club because I got tired of hearing about all the problems.
The one thing I enjoy about the CC clubs is that I do not hear lots of bitching, maybe I'm just not listening to the right people, but thats my opinion.

Bill G

Re: Allure-Intrigue-Magna: differences...

Reply #31 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1292
Jeff, You are only hearing the bad postings, it's like the news on TV, when is the last time you heard good news or something nice. Bill

Re: Allure-Intrigue-Magna: differences...

Reply #32 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1293
Peter, Unfortunately most of the manufacturing is done by people, who are not very happy at times, with their pay or their wives. You can use all the fancy words you want but this problem is not going to go away, so I guess we need to learn to work with it or move on. Bill

Re: Allure-Intrigue-Magna: differences...

Reply #33 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1296
Joey,

Good philosophy. But lighten up on the guy! He's just not as lucky as you and I. I also had a '98 Intrigue. VERY little trouble... and the factory took good care of me when their service was needed.
I don't think as much of my 2002.... yet. I've had a few problems in the six months I've owned it. Some CC problems and some third party problems. Most just quality control..... that is... people problems.
My thought: we would all pay less if the manufactures didn't have to build in profit to cover the re-fitting, re-installing and re-this & that. But I'm still "sold" on CC!

Dick May

2002 Intrigue, #11438
Member: CCI, FMCA
Dick May
2002 Intrigue, #11438, towing a
2014 Jeep Gr Cherokee ecoDiesel

Re: Allure-Intrigue-Magna: differences...

Reply #34 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1299
---

joeycam;

Thank you so much for slapping some sense into me. You are right, I really do not have any problems and should be EXTREMELY grateful to have the wonderful motorhome that Country Coach has blessed me with.

I promise to "loosen up, stop whining, have fun and HUSH!!!" as you prescribed. I will "get off you roads" immediately and never, ever complain about being screwed by a product seller again. Believeing in the concept of consumer rights just leads to a pitiful state of self delusion. We should know that the product claims and warranties are just a convenient way for manufacturers to sell products and that if we are gullible enough to really believe them, we deserved to be unhappy.

I can see that you are a truly gifted healing professional and a loving and warm human being. I just wish that I had met you before so I could have avoided 57 years of delusion and misery!

I now see clearly that I am not entitled to my own feelings and ideas. You have shown me the light

Re: Allure-Intrigue-Magna: differences...

Reply #35 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1300
Damon,

Thank you for your valuable guidance and insights. I accept your wisdom and am going to study your advice calosely. I DO NOT want to get into buying more frustration and problems. I am going to seek remedies more agressively with CC. Doug Rutherford has offered to drive our coach, I think I will drive it up to Junction City and take him up on it. I jsut wish the woule have been more diligent when I was there in September. They were very busy and rushed. I have felt brushed off in my numerous attempts to get resolution aobout handling to date. I have been chasing the problem for months, closely following their advice.

I tihnk that I finally have Cummins attention (after six months) and hope to find resolution there.

Best regards, Charles.

Re: Allure-Intrigue-Magna: differences...

Reply #36 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1301
Peter,

I respond to youe e-mail with great trepidation. I have promised "joeycam" that I will refrain from such weak, undignified behavior as standing up for myself, BUT:

We get a publication in the western states named "RV Journal" (www.rvjournal.com). It is handed out at camping World and other RV service providing loactions. In their Winter 2001-2 issue on page 96 they have a display ad for five "LemonLaw" legal firms and state openly that RV owners are 100% eligible for protection, bot at the state and federal level. I have sent correspondence to the on closest to me (Laguna Niguel, California).

It sounds to me that you have paid for services out of your pocket that may be reimburseable. I would summarize your experience and send a request for reimbursement to CC along with reciepts. I have done so with some success to date (they have honored two out of three).
I greatly appreciate your willingness to act as coodinator for those of us having chronic problems. It is very possible that we do have "Lemons". It happens with cars, and our coaches are many times more complex.

I am cosidering seeking replacement or a full refund for our coach with legal representation. The steering suspension on mine is really unacceptable, even if Cummins comes accross with a new engine. one of thier managmers told me that this has been necessary in the past.
They have completely rebuilt ISC 350's top to bottom and still not been aboe to stop the blowby. THEY HAVE REPALCED COMPLETE ENGINES IN THE PAST.

Let's ask any other interested owners to take this whole discssuion off the YAHOO site and work together. I have contacted another attorneY (who has doen good work for me in the past) as well. I will be the point person to see who might be willing to represent us. Who knows, we may even be eligible for class action certification??

I'll e-mail you directly when I hear back.

Charles.

Re: Allure-Intrigue-Magna: differences...

Reply #37 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1304
I have to think there is some additional value building a coach in 3 months verses 5 weeks, having a self supporting chassis that can be driven around with out the coach sidewalls holding the engine up, and last having the chassis dyno tested before you take delivery?

Damon

Re: Allure-Intrigue-Magna: differences...

Reply #38 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1305
Bill,

Again, this laissez-faire, settling for second best, don't make waves, they're doing their best attitude is positively part of the problem. How did the Japanese, Taiwanese, and now the Chinese take away our camera industry, motorcycles, motor cars, television, VCR, and calculator industries? By paying attention to detail, responding to consumer desires, implementing quality control and thereby providing well designed, reliable products fitted to the buyers needs. When did you last remember any serious quality or performance issues related to any of the products above from those countries of origin. It's not magic or oriental cunning it is the manifestation of sound business principles and ethics.
And, don't advance the argument that all of these things are high volume, mass produced items and they could not compete in low volume areas? Where did all the shipyards in the USA and Europe go? Japan owns the tanker market and all other significant freight tonnage built each year. Same reasons as above. Look at the current state of the steel industry. Just last week the omniscient government of the USA found it proper to put a 30% tariff on all imported steel in the hope that the American dullards might survive a few more years. That's real progress. About a bright as condoning CC and others for turning out grossly unfinished product and then piddling away two years of the unfortunate buyers time and thousand of dollars in trying to fix the problems that should never have left the factory in the first place. Do you wonder why there has been an average 22% price increase in these vehicles EACH YEAR for the past four years while inflation has crept along at less than 4%?

Remember, there are those that make it happen, those that watch it happen and those that wonder what the heck happened. Why group do you want to be in?

Peter

Britannia Inc.
800-274-5245

Re: Allure-Intrigue-Magna: differences...

Reply #39 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1307
Peter:

I have enjoyed the lively banter but I must protest the use of the old "Japan does it better" misdirect. Japan would never have invented a motorhome and I'm sure the Germans would have built it better. Have you compared the price of a Mercedes with a Chevy lately? How about the statistic that American workers are still the most productive worldwide? Japans economy is still in the toilet. Tarriffs as you know protect industry from unfair practices such as "dumping".
Having said this, I am amazed that after 30-40 years of motorhome manufacturing, we are still suffering from underpower and overweight issues. My suggestion is that the average consumer still wants style over substance, comfort over efficiency. Look at the cars on the road and you'll see what I mean. Is it possible that CC dropped in quality once National took over? In the words of everyones Grandfather "They sure don't build'em like they used to."

Craig G

'89 36' Cambridge

Thanks & Possible Blowby Fix

Reply #40 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1314
Damon,

Thanks for you valuable input on the problems inherent in the coaches (monaco and Beaver) that I was considering to replace my 2000 Intrigue Cook's Choice (11142).

You have motivated me to tackle the problems (once again). I have contacted Doug Rutherford again (e-mail) and I am waiting for a reply. I asked him about the ride height valve configuation on my coach as you suggested and requested that he help me get into Holland Motor Coaches (in San Diego, who have come highly recommended by other local owners).

FYI, the Cummins shop that was working on my blowby problem installed a new "experimental" valve cover on my ISC 350. It uses the old Cummins design with the breather assembly in the cover itself. They (Bloomington, near Fontana, California) claim to be the only shop in So Cal doing these installs. Apparently it does not even have a part number yet. They promised to send me more paperwork. If a part number does appear, I will pass it on. Seems like a prototype deal!

I only drove it fifty miles, but no oil film on my tow car yet!

We are going to the Indy races in Fontana next week-end, I may be able to put on a few more miles to test it. A long trip, including alot of PacBake usage, will be the real test. We are not planning to leave for the east (nad the CC Indy gathering) until mid-april. That will probably tell the real tale (assuming it continues until then.
You might remeber that I did have the Pac (PacBrake Bulletin 157) done as well.

Cummins Bollminton has put it on one other coach and "so-far-so- good". Regards, Chuck.

Re: Thanks & Possible Blowby Fix

Reply #41 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1315
I had the same valve cover installed in San Jose in Dec, but it did not solve the blowby problem. Just had it in to Cummins in Sacramento, who said the problem was that the Pacbrake needed work. Heading for Texas next week, so will see if this does the trick.

Thanks & Possible Blowby Fix

Reply #42 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1316
Way to go Chuck,

I am leaving for Perry tomorrow morning so I will be off line for a little over a week. I know Doug Rutherford and Kevin Kiscoan will be there as well so you may not get a quick return call. I will converse with them regarding your coach. 14" of snow last night and now its 35 and sun, melting all over. Big Mess, hopefully Perry will be warm and sunny!

Good Luck,

Damon

Re: Thanks & Possible Blowby Fix

Reply #43 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1317
It's ALWAYS warm here in the sunny south!

Dick May (Atlanta, GA)
2002 Intrigue, #11438
Member: CCI, FMCA
Dick May
2002 Intrigue, #11438, towing a
2014 Jeep Gr Cherokee ecoDiesel

Re: Thanks & Possible Blowby Fix

Reply #44 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1318
Hi

I have a 99 Allure that had a bad blowby problem. Cal Pacific Cummins in Bloomington/Colton did the modification this past Nov. It included moving the dip stick for one side to the other. This was done at no cost.
It fixed the problem. No more oil on the back of the coach or the toad. Plus no more oil being added. I use to use 1 qt per 500 miles. Now, Zip O.

Good luck
 

Re: Allure-Intrigue-Magna: differences...

Reply #46 –
Yahoo Message Number: 1359
At this age I'll watch it happen, I've made it happen enough!