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Dry camping battery recharge time?

Yahoo Message Number: 34915
I was curious as to how long it takes owners of CC's to recharge their batteries with generator on a daily basis (no solar cells). At least those with 8D's as in Magnas and Affinity's so we have apples to apples. I have two new Lifelin 8D AGM's, brand new Freeedom 458 3kw inverter and mine is not an all electric coach. It takes me about 3.5 hours per day with my 8kw generator to bring up to float. Yesterday I met an owner of a 2001 all electric Affinity. He has 4 8D's and claim it takes only two hours to recharge daily. I do not see how this is technically possible. He has to be using more amps than I am since his fridge, stove and water heater are all electric and he has two inverters.
Rich

Magna 6148

Re: Dry camping battery recharge time?

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 34917
Rich

Our coaches are like cruising yachts having very similar systems. A super source of information is West Marine. Go to West Marine.com. Then in their search window, type in Smart Battery Charging. Then look at Product Advice and check out Battery Charging.
These sections in their catalog are the best and are called "The West Advisor". Great reference. Check it out.

Ned Herrmann
06 Inspire 51677

Re: Dry camping battery recharge time?

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 34924
I have 2 8D Lifleine AGMs and they will charge from 65% to 95% in less than an hour with my 8KW gen.

Larry 03 Allure 30856

in less than an h

Quote from: intrepid008"
I was curious as to how long it takes owners of CC's to recharge

their

Quote
batteries with generator on a daily basis (no solar cells). At

least

Quote
those with 8D's as in Magnas and Affinity's so we have apples to > apples. I have two new Lifelin 8D AGM's, brand new Freeedom 458

3kw

Quote
inverter and mine is not an all electric coach. It takes me about

3.5

Quote
hours per day with my 8kw generator to bring up to float.

Yesterday I

Quote
met an owner of a 2001 all electric Affinity. He has 4 8D's and

claim

Quote
it takes only two hours to recharge daily. I do not see how this

is

Quote
technically possible. He has to be using more amps than I am since

his

Re: Dry camping battery recharge time?

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 34925
Also, my inverter/converter can be programmed to charge at specific AMPs. I have it set on MAX at 30 AMPS charging.

Larry 03 Allure 30856

Quote from: Ned Herrmann
>

Rich

Our coaches are like cruising yachts having very similar
systems. A super source of

Quote
information is West Marine. Go to West Marine.com. Then in their
search window, type in

Quote
Smart Battery Charging. Then look at Product Advice and check out
Battery Charging.

Quote
These sections in their catalog are the best and are called "The
West Advisor". Great

Quote
reference. Check it out.
Ned Herrmann
06 Inspire 51677

Quote from: intrepid008"\[br\
\[/quote\]\[br\]] > >

> I was curious as to how long it takes owners of CC's to recharge

their

Quote
batteries with generator on a daily basis (no solar cells). At

least

Quote
those with 8D's as in Magnas and Affinity's so we have apples to > > apples. I have two new Lifelin 8D AGM's, brand new Freeedom 458

3kw

Quote
inverter and mine is not an all electric coach. It takes me

about 3.5

Quote
hours per day with my 8kw generator to bring up to float.

Yesterday I

Quote
met an owner of a 2001 all electric Affinity. He has 4 8D's and

claim

Quote
it takes only two hours to recharge daily. I do not see how this

is

Quote
technically possible. He has to be using more amps than I am

since his

Re: Dry camping battery recharge time?

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 34927
Quote
I have 2 8D Lifleine AGMs and they will charge from 65% to 95% in >less than an hour with my 8KW gen.
What is the output of your charger? You have 2 x 255 Ah = 510 Ah total capacity. 30% of this is 153Ah. This means your charger must be putting out ~170 amps(@ 90% efficiency) to do this. Sounds a bit optomistic.

Tom Fisher
Dallas

Re: Dry camping battery recharge time?

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 34935
I guess I don't know off hand, but will investigate and report back.
As stated, when we dry camped we had no problem charging the batteries to 95% in less than an hour.

Larry

Quote from: Tom Fisher
>I have 2 8D Lifleine AGMs and they will charge from 65% to 95% in > >less than an hour with my 8KW gen.
> What is the output of your charger? You have 2 x 255 Ah = 510 Ah > total capacity. 30% of this is 153Ah. This means your charger must be > putting out ~170 amps(@ 90% efficiency) to do this. Sounds a bit

optomistic.

Dry camping battery recharge time?

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 34936
Mine is an electric Allure. I used to charge it 2 hours in the morning and 2 hours in the evening. That's without using too much during the day. Now I have 740 watts of solar but haven't dry camped with it yet. Hopefully it will cut down significantly on genset run time.

John Pratt

'05 Allure 31308
Jeep Commander

Re: Dry camping battery recharge time?

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 34939
Thanks Don! That sounds like my experience too.

Larry 03 Allure 30856

Quote from: Don Seager
Larry,

My experience agrees with your experience. I go all summer on
our lot in NH without power or solar. I have 2 8D AGMs. I have taken extensive measurements while the batteries are recharging and my figures are not even close to 510 Ah. I have read all kinds of claims about Ah ratings so I decided to measure it myself.

Quote
>

I set my auto start on the Xantrex to start at 50% and shut down
at 99%. It routinely takes about 1.5 hours to recharge but remember I start at 50% rather than 65%. With the Xantrex set to "Use All Available Power' the charging currents starts in bulk charge at 90 to 100 amps. It drops rather quickly at first and ends up at less than 20 amps in float charge. I have an 8 Kw Onan.

Quote
>

Don Seager

2004 Allure 31046

I guess I don't know off hand, but will investigate and report

back.

Quote
As stated, when we dry camped we had no problem charging the

batteries

Quote
to 95% in less than an hour.

Larry

[quote author=Tom Fisher"

>

> >I have 2 8D Lifleine AGMs and they will charge from 65% to

95% in

Quote
>less than an hour with my 8KW gen.
 >

> What is the output of your charger? You have 2 x 255 Ah = 510

Ah

Quote
total capacity. 30% of this is 153Ah. This means your charger

must be

Quote
putting out ~170 amps(@ 90% efficiency) to do this. Sounds a

bit

Re: Dry camping battery recharge time?

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 34942
I think you are getting good comments from Ned & Larry but from my experience with boats you could also look at a book written by David Smead & Ruth Ishihara called "Living on 12 Volts with Ample Power".
It is a complex subject and worth knowing a little more about.
John

05 Inspire

Quote from: Larry Feather
>

I guess I don't know off hand, but will investigate and report

back.

Quote
As stated, when we dry camped we had no problem charging the

batteries

Quote
to 95% in less than an hour.

Larry

[quote author=Tom Fisher"

>

> >I have 2 8D Lifleine AGMs and they will charge from 65% to 95% in > > >less than an hour with my 8KW gen.
>

> What is the output of your charger? You have 2 x 255 Ah = 510

Ah

Quote
total capacity. 30% of this is 153Ah. This means your charger

must be

Re: Dry camping battery recharge time?

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 34944
Rich, I think what you are experiencing is normal. The problem is that you do not want to bring the battery bank to float. Like you, I have two 8D AGMs. If I run them down to near 60% it would take me 3 to 4 hours to get to float. But, I can charge to 90% in an hour or so. That is what I recommend for a good efficient use of batteries and generator.

George in Birmingham
'04 Allure 31038

Quote from: intrepid008
George in Birmingham
2003 Magna 6298

Re: Dry camping battery recharge time?

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 34977
Don and all: First of all, how do you set your Xantrex to shut down at 99%? My 458 shuts down at float for AGM or whatever battery type I have it set for. It is programmed.

Secondly, in this discussion we are having that I started, I was always trying to keep this apples to apples. I note that many people, including you are not charging to full float 100%. This would explain charging time differences since that last few per cent takes a very long time. I should mention to all that both Lifeline, Xantrex and CC said that bringing to full float at least once or twice a week is critical to battery life even though it may not seem that important.

Rich

Magna 6148

Quote from: Don Seager
Larry,
> My experience agrees with your experience. I go all summer on our
lot in NH without power or solar. I have 2 8D AGMs. I have taken extensive measurements while the batteries are recharging and my figures are not even close to 510 Ah. I have read all kinds of claims about Ah ratings so I decided to measure it myself.

Quote
>

I set my auto start on the Xantrex to start at 50% and shut down
at 99%. It routinely takes about 1.5 hours to recharge but remember I start at 50% rather than 65%. With the Xantrex set to "Use All Available Power' the charging currents starts in bulk charge at 90 to 100 amps. It drops rather quickly at first and ends up at less than 20 amps in float charge. I have an 8 Kw Onan.

Quote
>

Don Seager

2004 Allure 31046

I guess I don't know off hand, but will investigate and report

back.

Quote
As stated, when we dry camped we had no problem charging the

batteries

Quote
to 95% in less than an hour.

Larry

[quote author=Tom Fisher"

>

> >I have 2 8D Lifleine AGMs and they will charge from 65% to 95%

in

Quote
>less than an hour with my 8KW gen.
 >

> What is the output of your charger? You have 2 x 255 Ah = 510 Ah > > total capacity. 30% of this is 153Ah. This means your charger

must be

Quote
putting out ~170 amps(@ 90% efficiency) to do this. Sounds a

bit

Re: Dry camping battery recharge time?

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 34978
George,

See my reply to Don. Lifeline, Xantrex and CC tell me that charging to only 90% is OK but need to go to float once or twice a week at least or battery life will be considerably reduced. Do not know if this is really true, but that is what they say.

Rich

Magna 6148

Quote from: George Sanders
>

Rich, I think what you are experiencing is normal. The problem is > that you do not want to bring the battery bank to float. Like you,

I

Quote
have two 8D AGMs. If I run them down to near 60% it would take me 3 > to 4 hours to get to float. But, I can charge to 90% in an hour or > so. That is what I recommend for a good efficient use of batteries > and generator.

George in Birmingham
'04 Allure 31038

[quote author=intrepid008"

>

> I was curious as to how long it takes owners of CC's to recharge

their

Quote
batteries with generator on a daily basis (no solar cells). At

least

Quote
those with 8D's as in Magnas and Affinity's so we have apples to > > apples. I have two new Lifelin 8D AGM's, brand new Freeedom 458

3kw

Quote
inverter and mine is not an all electric coach. It takes me about

3.5

Quote
hours per day with my 8kw generator to bring up to float.

Yesterday I

Quote
met an owner of a 2001 all electric Affinity. He has 4 8D's and

claim

Quote
it takes only two hours to recharge daily. I do not see how this

is

Quote
technically possible. He has to be using more amps than I am

since his

Re: Dry camping battery recharge time?

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 34979
Rich,

It is true! If you read the manufactures spec on the batteries it will explain how and why.

Joe 2006 Intrigue 12054

Re: Dry camping battery recharge time?

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 34983
When the talk is about "battery float" are we talking about when the battery indicator lights are yellow or green? thanks

Ron 98 Allure 30185

Re: Dry camping battery recharge time?

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 34988
Ron

Red should be bulk charge, yellow then green as float.
Dry camping, we are out dry camping as I write this. I have 2, 135 watt panels on the roof and I have one 135 panel on the ground that I use when needed. I am getting 11.5 amps out of the two on the roof and 8 amps on the one I can point at the sun on the ground. It is noon here and not a cloud in the sky. I am playing on the lap top and watching football. My battery bank is at 90% My wife just used the hair dryer. We are use to dry camping so we are conservative on usage. My problem is I do need to run the generator and now need to run it just to keep it in good shape. Friday it was overcast and I was getting 2.7 amps out of the roof units.

John 04 31060 ( and very happy with our choice of coach and with C.C. )

Re: Dry camping battery recharge time?

Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 35005
Rich, you make a good point about battery longevity and the proper charging regimen required.

Perhaps I should have added in my previous discussion that I often dry camp for a week but seldom for longer without at least one day of driving and generally one night in a commercial campground with hookups. The result of course is a full charge once a week.

My storage methods are also a series of battery cycles. I have no shore power where I store. I also do not winterize. I heat the coach in the winter to 45 degrees. I now have solar on the roof to contribute to battery charging but many nights the state of charge drops to 50% and the controller starts the generator to provide for battery charging. I routinely charge to 90%....for good or for bad.
I can also say that early this year my 3 year old AGMs were well down on capacity. Perhaps that was a result of my useage habits. I purchased a BD-2 battery desulphator and hooked it up to the AGMs.
The result was a dramatic increase in capacity to as new condition.
I don't mean to recommend that people should mistreat their batteries.
I do think that the recommendation to full charge batteries more than once a week is overkill.

Quote from: intrepid008
George in Birmingham
2003 Magna 6298

Re: Dry camping battery recharge time?

Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 35006
Oops...sorry

George in Birmingham
'04 Allure 31038

Quote from: intrepid008
George in Birmingham
2003 Magna 6298

Re: Dry camping battery recharge time?

Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 35007
Sounds like a whole new subject for me to watch and learn. Battery desulfation...hmm.
Reading your email produced another quick run to Google ( obviously many other millions are too based on their constant stock news ) to quickly research "desulfators".
Don't yet know much or if they provide the boon claimed by the manufacturers but hope to hear from many others here on the site about their experiences. I have experienced the results of sulfation but wasn't aware of desulfation products.
On the other hand, why don't the inverter/charger folks include a desulfation circuit within their units if the benefits are fully genuine? It would be simple to integrate. What am I missing? Hopefully we'll hear from a large sampling.

Re: Desulphators

Reply #20 –
Yahoo Message Number: 35012
I bought a desulphator in January of this year after researching several models. I chose the BatteryMINDer® OnBoard Desulphator for the

house batteries after talking with Bill Woods at VDC Electronics. He knows batteries, and is very helpful.

VDC Electronics
Bill Woods ext 201
800 379-5579
631 445-1064

In April, I bought the BatteryMINDer® Model 12248 to maintain the chassis batteries while hooked up to shore power.
http://www.vdcelectronics.com/OnBoard_Desulphators.htm
http://www.vdcelectronics.com/batteryminder_12248.htm
Both are great products, and paid for themselves already. I was going to replace both sets of batteries, but didn't have to.

Dean 95 Magna 5233

Re: Dry camping battery recharge time?

Reply #21 –
Yahoo Message Number: 35019
"Desulfation" is the same as equalization. This feature is built in to the Xantrex inverters. However, AGM batteries are NOT normally equalized. Under certain circumstances they can be occasionally. Check with your manufacturer.

Rich

02 Magna 6148

Re: Dry camping battery recharge time?

Reply #22 –
Yahoo Message Number: 35035
Desulphation is not the same as equalization. Equalization is the application of a 4 to 8 hour high voltage of about 15 volts.
Desulphation is the application of high voltage pulses the duration of which is measured in milliseconds.

Equalization did not help my batteries but desulphation did.

George in Birmingham
'04 Allure 31038

Quote from: RICHARD BARLOW
> > "Desulfation" is the same as equalization. This feature is built in
to the Xantrex inverters. However, AGM batteries are NOT normally equalized. Under certain circumstances they can be occasionally. Check with your manufacturer.
George in Birmingham
2003 Magna 6298
 

Re: Dry camping battery recharge time?

Reply #23 –
Yahoo Message Number: 35038
You're correct in saying that equalization is not the same as de- sulphation. However, the de-sulphator pulses a RF (radio frequency) pulse into the battery. Hydrogen sulfide crystals form on the battery plates and will eventually cause a short between the cells.
Hydrogen sulfide crystals are very sensitive to RF. If you were a kid during the 50's, you may have had a crystal radio. Without any batteries or any external power source, you could pick up local radio stations on the radio because the hydrogen sulfide crystal inside would actually recieve those signals and transmit to an earpiece. The pulsing of strong RF into the battery will actually fracture the crystals that have formed on the plates and the residue will fall to the bottom of the battery interior. With continuous de- sulphation, the residue will, eventually, be re-absorbed back into the elctrolyte. This will increase battery longevity by a factor of many years. Should be obvious why battery manufacturers don't talk this up.

Dave Trotter

01 Intrigue 11215