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Wheel bounce / vibration at Highway speeds

Yahoo Message Number: 40097
I purchased a used 2004 Inspire with 6200 miles on it. Upon driving it home I noticed it had significant vibration coming from the back. It was apparent to me that the rear wheels needed balancing. I took it initially to a truck tire shop and they checked all the wheels and said they looked great but added a small amount of weight to on rear inside wheel. The vibrations were the same. Then took it to RV / Truck tire place and they adjusted weights again on the inside steel wheels and added sand to the aluminum wheels and the vibrations have been greatly reduced but not eliminated. The measurements for travel height were obtained from CC and a chassis shop checked ride height and all suspension components and everything looked good. The tires are the original toyos. After all of this I took a 900 mile trip and for the most part felt the ride was comfortable but the continuous small vibrations are irritating. I'd like it to be smooth if the road is.
All this being said, and since this is my first coach, here are my questions for the group.

Is this normal and as good as it gets as the RV tire guy said? Are the Toyo tires the issue? Are they considered good quality coach tires? What are the thoughts regarding using a product like centramatic to take away the rest of the vibration? Anyone use this? See www.centramatic.com.
Any thoughts or some or all of the questions would be greatly appreciated.

Steve

2004 Inspire #51075

Re: Wheel bounce / vibration at Highway speeds

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 40099
Steve, there could be a couple of things that would cause a vibration.

A tire can be in perfect balance BUT go out of round at a certain speed and then you get the hop. I had this problem with a Toyo that was on the front and it had 16,000 miles on it. The only way to see if it goes out of round it to spin it up to highway speeds and see what happens. My tire was in balance but it went out of round at 62MPH. You could have the rear tires swapped with the front ones but that would be kinda time consuming.

Another problem could be the driveshaft. One of the U-joints could be bad or possibly they need a good shot of grease. The U-joints have a couple of zerks on them and both should be shot full of grease and don't forget the slip ring. The driveshaft is pretty critical and the 5,000 mile lube should be followed very closely.
If possible, have someone with you while you are driving so that they can hepl locate the problem. It is hard to make a good diagnosis when you are driving and trying to hunt down a problem.

Don

'02 Intrigue #11427

Quote from: Steve Vogel
'02 Intrigue #11427

Re: Wheel bounce / vibration at Highway speeds

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 40100
Our coaches are almost exactly 100 apart - 51178 for us and it's an '05 with a C9.
The reason I am responding is our experiences included some of the same symptoms and CC and Cat spent a lot of money over a year or so checking all sorts of potential sources for our problem. At cruising speeds above about 50 mph the coach would feel like it was jumping up and down - really.
It was eventually found to not be the tires but we had a lot of tire work done including re-clocking tires on wheels to take advantage of slight wheel/tire out of round. They also did a complete chassis alignment (it was almost perfect as built) and they trued the tires and I was amazed at what a difference that made. Smoother ride you can really feel and any uneven wear we have experienced is clearly not tire related.
Our problem eventually turned out to be an engine issue - the fuel pump was turning off and back on at about 3 times a second. Believe me, the experience of having ~1000 ft-lbs of torque turning on and off will get your undivided attention.

Just a point that sometimes it can be something you don't expect.
In this case since balancing has improved things for you and with 50+ years of playing with, modifying and restoring cars I believe 99% of the time a shake is tire related so I suspect the tires are the problem in your case - but there is always that small percentage left over. The devices that constantly adjust the balance using sand or some viscous material usually work well but only to a point. It depends on the system but usually they cannot take care of a large balance weight problem or defective tires that have shape problems. If you install them and still have problems I would lean towards the problem again being the tires - as mentioned they can change shape with speed.
We have the original Toyos on our coach and with right at 4 years and 30,000 miles they roll smooth as glass and are vibration free. Toyos have very stiff casings and we are looking forward to a softer ride with new ones when that becomes necessary. FWIW my next set will also be trued as soon as appropriate - it made that much difference and I would never have paid to have it done - I will now. Truing old tires is frequently not cost effective but can be considered. I wouldn't spent the money on tires that have a limited life time left.
Versus replacement, yours, like ours, are getting old enough to start paying real close attention to aging effects. The rule of thumb of 5-7 years is usually about right - I once paid the price (pun intended) for pushing the tires on an old gas coach to 10 years. Lost every single tire over the duration of that trip. Some will require replacement earlier than 5 years, others can last longer than 7 but the damage a failed tire can do to a heavy diesel coach can far exceed the cost of new tires. It ain't worth it.

Bob Handren

05 Country Coach Inspire 51178

Re: Wheel bounce / vibration at Highway speeds

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 40101
I had similar problem and they ended up "shaving" one of my rear Toyos. After that, it was smooth. I now have new Michelins and after riding bumpy roads, I have developed another "bounce." I'm considering the centramatics. http://www.centramatic.com/balancer.htmlhttp://www.centramatic.com/balancer.html Larry, 03 Allure 30856

Re: Wheel bounce / vibration at Highway speeds

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 40103
Thanks for your feedback. I forgot to mention in the list of what has been done that the ujoints were replaced. It seems that they had never been greased from the factory and just had the minimal amount from the manufacturer. There were showing bad wear marks so we replaced. I drove it immediately after that before the sand was added to the tires and it made no difference on the vibration.

Re: Wheel bounce / vibration at Highway speeds

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 40104
Hi Steve. I bought a 1 owner coach 4 years ago and had the same problem. I researched it and talked to Centramatic at a rally, I added the centramatic to both the front and rear wheels and am very pleased with the results, no more bumping and rattling. It was the best improvement I have made in my coach. J. Barrie Boas 94 CC Concept
5111

In Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Vogel" wrote:

Quote
>

I purchased a used 2004 Inspire with 6200 miles on it. Upon

driving it

Quote
home I noticed it had significant vibration coming from the back.

It

Quote
was apparent to me that the rear wheels needed balancing. I took it > initially to a truck tire shop and they checked all the wheels and

said

Quote
they looked great but added a small amount of weight to on rear

inside

Quote
wheel. The vibrations were the same. Then took it to RV / Truck

tire

Quote
place and they adjusted weights again on the inside steel wheels and > added sand to the aluminum wheels and the vibrations have been

greatly

Quote
reduced but not eliminated. The measurements for travel height were > obtained from CC and a chassis shop checked ride height and all > suspension components and everything looked good. The tires are the > original toyos. After all of this I took a 900 mile trip and for

the

Quote
most part felt the ride was comfortable but the continuous small > vibrations are irritating. I'd like it to be smooth if the road is.

All this being said, and since this is my first coach, here are my > questions for the group.

Is this normal and as good as it gets as the RV tire guy said? >

Are the Toyo tires the issue? Are they considered good quality

coach

Quote
tires?
> What are the thoughts regarding using a product like centramatic to

take

Re: Wheel bounce / vibration at Highway speeds

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 40106
Thanks for your replay as well as many others. The theme I'm seeing here is that I think I should take one more pass at a very reputable tire shop, have the tires checked completely and trued if needed. I am thinking like you, and note that jbells did do the centramatic and is very pleased, that the centramatic would be an excellent investment no matter what tires you run for the life of the coach. I can get it done around here for $300 per axle. Note that on the centramatic website there is an endorsement from a Country Coach owner.

__

Re: Wheel bounce / vibration at Highway speeds

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 40108
I HAD A SIMILAR PROBLEM AT 50-55 MPH, AND DETERMINED I HAD 2 OUT OF ROUND TIRES. I CONTACTED LESSCHWAB IN JC. GOODYEAR REPLACED 2 TIRES AT 17K MILES. THEN LESSCHWAB REPLACED THE GOODYEAR REPLACEMENT TIRE 5K MILES LATER AND THEN THEY REPLACED THEIR REPLACEMENT 2K MILES LATER, ALL FOR BEING OUT OF ROUND. BY THE WAY IF A TIRE IS OUT OF ROUND, THE TIRE WON'T BALANCE WITH ANY AMOUNT OF WEIGHT. ALL 4 REPLACEMENTS WERE DONE UNDER WARRANTY. I NOW HAVE A SMOOTH RIDE.
IF YOU HAVE CONFIRMED THAT IT'S OUT OF ROUND TIRES, CALL LESSCHWAB AND ASK FOR REPLACEMENTS.

JB 31309 ALLURE

Re: Wheel bounce / vibration at Highway speeds

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 40113
Steve,

I had the original Toyo's on my Intrigue. Always had vibration issues at highway speeds. Tried traditional weight balancing and Centramatics and still no difference in ride quality.
Don't waste your time trying to correct this problem. Get rid of the Toyos. I replaced mine with Michelin XZA2 Energy tires. Problem solved. Toyo's are known to have out-of-round issues that balancing will not correct.

I know you don't want to spend $600-$700 (maybe more now) per tire, but this is what it will probably take. It worked for me and I'm glad I made the switch. Hey, your tires will be five years old soon, so you probably would need to consider replacement anyway.

Rob

2002 Intrigue #11480

Quote
Are the Toyo tires the issue? Are they considered good quality

coach

Quote
tires?
> What are the thoughts regarding using a product like centramatic to

take

Re: Wheel bounce / vibration at Highway speeds

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 40114
-Hi Steve: Like everything I guess there are good and bad tires in every brand. I have TOYOS on my front axel and Michelins on the two back axels. Something to consider, the use of centramatics negates the need to ever have your wheels balanced again, in fact they took all the weights off of my wheels when they installed the centramatics, I would assume Rob still has his on his coach even with Michelins. I chose the TOYOS because of their wider track when I replaced the front tires, I have 8000 miles on them and they are wearing straight and even. Jbells, 94 Concept 5111.

-- In Country-

Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com, "intrigue11480" wrote:

Quote
Steve,

I had the original Toyo's on my Intrigue. Always had vibration > issues at highway speeds. Tried traditional weight balancing and > Centramatics and still no difference in ride quality.

Don't waste your time trying to correct this problem. Get rid of

the

Quote
Toyos. I replaced mine with Michelin XZA2 Energy tires. Problem > solved. Toyo's are known to have out-of-round issues that

balancing

Quote
will not correct.
> I know you don't want to spend $600-$700 (maybe more now) per tire, > but this is what it will probably take. It worked for me and I'm > glad I made the switch. Hey, your tires will be five years old

soon,

Quote
so you probably would need to consider replacement anyway.

Rob

2002 Intrigue #11480

> Are the Toyo tires the issue? Are they considered good quality > coach
> tires?
>

> What are the thoughts regarding using a product like centramatic

to

Re: Wheel bounce / vibration at Highway speeds

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 40115
We picked our new coach up at the factory and drove it back home to Pennsylvania in 2002. The vibration was so bad that during the trip from OR to PA, I called CC and asked them where we could stop to have the severe vibration problem resolved. CC called back and gave us the name of a reputable truck tire shop in Des Moines.

The technician removed all 8 tires and checked balance and runout (roundness) of each tire. All tires needed balanced, as we found out that CC (Les Schwab) does (did) not balance any of them at the factory.

The very astute technician in Des Moines also noted that 2 of the tires were more than 60 thousandths runout. He "guaranteed" me that with more than 60 thousandths runout the tires would always thump and never roll smoothly regardless of centramatics (which we had installed in OR) or balancing.

When we got back to Lazydays, we had them contact Toyo and order two new replacement tires. Once the two new tires were on the coach (replacing the 2 tires with over 60 thousandths runout), the coach has run smoothly ever since.

The LESSON I learned: When I buy my new tires, the tires will be balanced AND if the runout is over 60 thousandths, I'll refuse to take the tires and ask that other ones be mounted.

Bob Kumza
2003 Intrigue

Re: Wheel bounce / vibration at Highway speeds

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 40123
We ran Toyo's for five + years and 40,000 miles with great success.
So we replaced them with new Toyo's and had 4,000 miles of similar problems to those of the OP. Switched to Bridgestones and really enjoy the ride.

Dean

'95 CC Magna

Quote from: jbells_32713

> -Hi Steve: Like everything I guess there are good and bad tires in > every brand. I have TOYOS on my front axel and Michelins on the

two

Quote
back axels. Something to consider, the use of centramatics

negates

Quote
the need to ever have your wheels balanced again, in fact they took > all the weights off of my wheels when they installed the > centramatics, I would assume Rob still has his on his coach even

with

Quote
Michelins. I chose the TOYOS because of their wider track when I > replaced the front tires, I have 8000 miles on them and they are > wearing straight and even. Jbells, 94 Concept >

5111.

Quote
>

-- In Country- >Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com, "intrigue11480" wrote: > >

> Steve,
>

> I had the original Toyo's on my Intrigue. Always had vibration > > issues at highway speeds. Tried traditional weight balancing and > > Centramatics and still no difference in ride quality.
>

> Don't waste your time trying to correct this problem. Get rid of > the

> Toyos. I replaced mine with Michelin XZA2 Energy tires. Problem > > solved. Toyo's are known to have out-of-round issues that > balancing

> will not correct.
>

> I know you don't want to spend $600-$700 (maybe more now) per

tire,

Quote
but this is what it will probably take. It worked for me and I'm > > glad I made the switch. Hey, your tires will be five years old > soon,

> so you probably would need to consider replacement anyway.
>
> Rob

> 2002 Intrigue #11480
>
>

> > Are the Toyo tires the issue? Are they considered good quality > > coach
> > tires?
> >

> > What are the thoughts regarding using a product like

centramatic

Re: Wheel bounce / vibration at Highway speeds

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 40125
Steve - I have coach 51038 - we had a vibration problem at the outset - took it CC in Junction City - they put a brace in somewhere on the frame and changed the tires out by putting some larger tires on the coach - balanced ties and alignment. I don't remember what else they might have done but now the coach drives and rides great.
Subsequently I got a slight vibration at higher speeds (70 MPH or so). I got a laser alignment after about 12k miles and that improved the ride even more.

Clint Frederick
04 Inspire #51038

Quote from: Steve Vogel
I purchased a used 2004 Inspire with 6200 miles on it. Upon

driving it

Quote
home I noticed it had significant vibration coming from the back.

It

Quote
was apparent to me that the rear wheels needed balancing. I took it > initially to a truck tire shop and they checked all the wheels and

said

Quote
they looked great but added a small amount of weight to on rear

inside

Quote
wheel. The vibrations were the same. Then took it to RV / Truck

tire

Quote
place and they adjusted weights again on the inside steel wheels and > added sand to the aluminum wheels and the vibrations have been

greatly

Quote
reduced but not eliminated. The measurements for travel height were > obtained from CC and a chassis shop checked ride height and all > suspension components and everything looked good. The tires are the > original toyos. After all of this I took a 900 mile trip and for

the

Quote
most part felt the ride was comfortable but the continuous small > vibrations are irritating. I'd like it to be smooth if the road is.

All this being said, and since this is my first coach, here are my > questions for the group.

Is this normal and as good as it gets as the RV tire guy said? >

Are the Toyo tires the issue? Are they considered good quality

coach

Quote
tires?
> What are the thoughts regarding using a product like centramatic to

take

Re: Wheel bounce / vibration at Highway speeds

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 40146
I think I have these problems...it's always been there, even with the original Toyos and now BF Goodrichs. Anyone know a good truck tire place in the DFW area that can take a look at the front and see if there is a problem?

David

2002 Allure #30682

Re: Wheel bounce / vibration at Highway speeds

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 40147
I have not used them for quite some time---probably 2003, but I was very pleased with Laminack Tire Service, located at 3135 S. Shiloh Rd., Garland, TX. Their website is www. T3tires.com. Phone number is (972) 278-2131. Joe Johnson was the President then and that's who I dealt with.

Brian Davis
'05 Intrigue LE
Coach #11901

Re: Wheel bounce / vibration at Highway speeds

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 40193
I don't have any vibration problems with my coach which is right near yours. However, the Toyo tires are nearing the end of their life.
Check your DOT code on the tires; mine were made in 2003 and last year I found a crack in one of the sidewalls. I replaced 2 with Michelin XZA Energy tires (because Toyo won't certify tires for RVs any more). Will replace the other 4 tires before the next major trip (none this year due to gas prices and work which needs to be done on the house).

John 04 Inspire 51078

Quote from: Steve Vogel
I purchased a used 2004 Inspire with 6200 miles on it. Upon

driving it

Quote
home I noticed it had significant vibration coming from the back.

It

Quote
was apparent to me that the rear wheels needed balancing. I took it > initially to a truck tire shop and they checked all the wheels and

said

Quote
they looked great but added a small amount of weight to on rear

inside

Quote
wheel. The vibrations were the same. Then took it to RV / Truck

tire

Quote
place and they adjusted weights again on the inside steel wheels and > added sand to the aluminum wheels and the vibrations have been

greatly

Quote
reduced but not eliminated. The measurements for travel height were > obtained from CC and a chassis shop checked ride height and all > suspension components and everything looked good. The tires are the > original toyos. After all of this I took a 900 mile trip and for

the

Quote
most part felt the ride was comfortable but the continuous small > vibrations are irritating. I'd like it to be smooth if the road is.

All this being said, and since this is my first coach, here are my > questions for the group.

Is this normal and as good as it gets as the RV tire guy said? >

Are the Toyo tires the issue? Are they considered good quality

coach

Quote
tires?
> What are the thoughts regarding using a product like centramatic to

take

Re: Wheel bounce / vibration at Highway speeds

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 40204
Steve,

One of the first things we do to locate the exact cause of a vibration is to test drive at least 18 miles to properly warm up the tires. We immediately bring the coach into the shop and jack it up off of the floor to prevent "tire set". Next is to run the coach up to speed with the rear tires in the air to the speed that the vibration was felt. If the vibration is gone, you are probably dealing with an out of round tire or tires. If the vibration is still there, then you may have to recheck the balance on the tires.
We have a varity of different methods of balancing depending on the circumstances involved. We can balance tires on the vehicle or off the vehicle on either of our tire balancers. We have a tire trueing machine so we do not stop until the problem if found. If you are ever in Minnesota, look us up and we should be able to solve yur problems.

Dick Lorntson
Precision Frame
Elk River, MN
2004 Damon SOB

Quote from: Steve Vogel
Thanks for your replay as well as many others. The theme I'm
seeing here is that I think I should take one more pass at a very reputable tire shop, have the tires checked completely and trued if needed. I am thinking like you, and note that jbells did do the centramatic and is very pleased, that the centramatic would be an excellent investment no matter what tires you run for the life of the coach. I can get it done around here for $300 per axle. Note that on the centramatic website there is an endorsement from a Country Coach owner.

Quote
__
> From: Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Larry

Feather

Quote
Sent: Fri 8/1/2008 6:56 AM > To: Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Country-Coach-Owners] Re: Wheel bounce / vibration at
Highway speeds

Quote
>

I had similar problem and they ended up "shaving" one of my rear
Toyos. After that, it was smooth. I now have new Michelins and after riding bumpy roads, I have developed another "bounce." I'm considering the centramatics.
http://www.centramatic.com/balancer.html> http://www.centramatic.com/balancer.html
http://www.centramatic.com/balancer.html>

Quote
>

Larry, 03 Allure 30856

> -

Re: Wheel bounce / vibration at Highway speeds

Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 40210
Dick,

It's good to see you on the CC list. I was going to ask you to join it. I hope we can get you to talk at some upcoming CC rally.

Thanks for all your help when we were in MN.

Linda & Don
Intrigue 10678

Quote from: R Lorntson
Steve,

One of the first things we do to locate the exact cause of a > vibration is to test drive at least 18 miles to properly warm up

the

Quote
tires. We immediately bring the coach into the shop and jack it up > off of the floor to prevent "tire set". Next is to run the coach

up

Quote
to speed with the rear tires in the air to the speed that the > vibration was felt. If the vibration is gone, you are probably > dealing with an out of round tire or tires. If the vibration is > still there, then you may have to recheck the balance on the tires.
We have a varity of different methods of balancing depending on the > circumstances involved. We can balance tires on the vehicle or off > the vehicle on either of our tire balancers. We have a tire

trueing

Quote
machine so we do not stop until the problem if found. If you are > ever in Minnesota, look us up and we should be able to solve yur > problems.

Dick Lorntson
Precision Frame
Elk River, MN
2004 Damon SOB

[quote author=Steve Vogel"

>

> Thanks for your replay as well as many others. The theme I'm > seeing here is that I think I should take one more pass at a very > reputable tire shop, have the tires checked completely and trued if > needed. I am thinking like you, and note that jbells did do the > centramatic and is very pleased, that the centramatic would be an > excellent investment no matter what tires you run for the life of

the

Quote
coach. I can get it done around here for $300 per axle. Note that > on the centramatic website there is an endorsement from a Country > Coach owner.
>
> __
>

> From: Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Larry > Feather

> Sent: Fri 8/1/2008 6:56 AM

> To: Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [Country-Coach-Owners] Re: Wheel bounce / vibration at > Highway speeds
>
>
>

> I had similar problem and they ended up "shaving" one of my rear > Toyos. After that, it was smooth. I now have new Michelins and > after riding bumpy roads, I have developed another "bounce." I'm > considering the centramatics.

http://www.centramatic.com/balancer.html> >http://www.centramatic.com/balancer.html >http://www.centramatic.com/balancer.html> > >

> Larry, 03 Allure 30856
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Quote from: Steve Vogel"[/quote
Quote
>]
> >

> > I purchased a used 2004 Inspire with 6200 miles on it. Upon > driving it

> > home I noticed it had significant vibration coming from the

back.

Quote
It

> > was apparent to me that the rear wheels needed balancing. I

took

Quote
it

> > initially to a truck tire shop and they checked all the wheels > and said

> > they looked great but added a small amount of weight to on rear > inside

> > wheel. The vibrations were the same. Then took it to RV / Truck > tire

> > place and they adjusted weights again on the inside steel

wheels

Quote
and

> > added sand to the aluminum wheels and the vibrations have been > greatly

> > reduced but not eliminated. The measurements for travel height > were

> > obtained from CC and a chassis shop checked ride height and all > > > suspension components and everything looked good. The tires are > the

> > original toyos. After all of this I took a 900 mile trip and

for

Quote
the

> > most part felt the ride was comfortable but the continuous small > > > vibrations are irritating. I'd like it to be smooth if the road > is.
> >
> >
> >

> > All this being said, and since this is my first coach, here are

my

Quote
> questions for the group.
> >
> >
> >

> > Is this normal and as good as it gets as the RV tire guy said? > > >

> > Are the Toyo tires the issue? Are they considered good quality > coach

> > tires?
> >

> > What are the thoughts regarding using a product like

centramatic
 

Re: Wheel bounce / vibration at Highway speeds

Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 40218
Thanks for your reply. What are your thoughts on the centramatic product?