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Another Desert Storm Question

Yahoo Message Number: 40380
The other day I noticed the engine cooling fan comes on as soon as I start the engine. Is this normal? It doesn't make any different if the AC is running or not. I even disconnected the relay that forces the fan on when the AC is on. Jumpered it both full on and full off.
It didn't make any difference in fan speed that I could notice. The cooling fan is operated by a controller in the side of the radiator.
Could it be stuck on? Has any one changed one of these controllers.

Frank

2000 Magna 5766
385 CAT

Re: Another Desert Storm Question

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 40382
Frank, first get under coach and remove the "six 6 wire connector" on the "controller", make sure the wires are pushed well into there receptors and connections are clean. Next check and/or replace your "coolant sensor", then the "air temp" sensor there both pretty cheap, if that does not fix it, your "controller" needs reprogamming or the "hydralic valve" the controller operates is bad.

Thanks, Mike 03 Allure 1st Ave #30898

Quote from: kyteflyer_2000
> > The other day I noticed the engine cooling fan comes on as soon as I > start the engine. Is this normal? It doesn't make any different if > the AC is running or not. I even disconnected the relay that

forces

Quote
the fan on when the AC is on. Jumpered it both full on and full

off.

Quote
It didn't make any difference in fan speed that I could notice.

The

Quote
cooling fan is operated by a controller in the side of the

radiator.

Re: Another Desert Storm Question

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 40383
Frank, forgot to tell you when any of these componets fail the "controller" automatically defaults the valve to run fan at highest RPM as safety to the engine.
Mike

Quote from: kyteflyer_2000

Re: Another Desert Storm Question

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 40390
The controller only has 2 wires. One is +12DCV. The second goes to the AC relay in the front. The when the AC is on the relay grounds the second wire. The controller is a Mechanical Hydraulic controller (Sauer Sunstrand PN B5531-10294-12) and is attached to the radiator.

Frank

2000 Magna 5766
Cat 385

Quote from: allure012000

Re: Another Desert Storm Question

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 40391
I am a volunteer for the home coming parking at Albany. If any of you all know you have the Desert Storm problem, Please when you pull up to the different stations for directions for parking please shut down your engine when on a dirt surface while receiving directions. I know I am being presumptuous but breathing dirt for 6 hours a day for three days CAN BE A CHALLENGE! Thanks very Much! TWI 2004 Intrigue, Volunteer!

Re: Another Desert Storm Question

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 40397
Check the fuse. If the fuse is blown, the fan defaults to always on/high speed. At least that's how it eworks on my coach (per CC tech).

Larry 03 Allure 30856

Quote from: kyteflyer_2000

Re: Another Desert Storm Question

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 40398
Also, once I installed the metel plate on the bottom of my radiator, I have no more desert storms. A reasonably simple fix IMO.

Larry 03 Allure 30856

Quote from: kyteflyer_2000

NEED EMERGENCY ELECTRICAL ASSISTANCE ASAP

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 40399
We are stranded (safely in a campground) with a totally dead 12V system. My Inverter is a RS2000 Sine Wave Inverter/Charger. The Total Coach System display is down. The Norcold shows "low dc" and is inoperative, as is anything using 12V.
We have 50A shore power (OK according to the surge protector) and the 120V systems seem fine - I can watch TV but can't flush the toilet!.
I have tried to charge using the front panel of the RS2000. The panel shows "low battery" and will go into "bulk charge" but there is no apparent effect on the batteries so I get nowhere, and in a while it will go into a "fault" mode. Is there a way to visually check the big breaker fuse between the Inverter and batteries?
Do you have any troubleshooting advice? Is there a breaker somewhere I need to check? (I've looked at the 2 IOTA breaker panels in the hallway, their OK) I'm suspecting the house batteries are bad (we bought the rig used so don't know about the first 2 years if it's life) but even if bad wouldn't they at least take a charge? Call if you like at 515 708-3390 or 3391.

Lee (stranded in Moab, Utah)

Lee Zaborowski, Jeanne Bortz

2007 Country Coach Intrigue #12153 Branson, Missouri
http://jeanneleez.blogspot.com

Re: NEED EMERGENCY ELECTRICAL ASSISTANCE ASAP

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 40401
While your troubleshooting your problem, get an auto battery charger and charge the batteries externally, that will keep your "minimal" 12 volt systems operating. When I had a charging problem, it was the charger. Call tech support on your inverter and talk to them, they are a great source of "real good" information. In a bind, I used jumpers from my car to bring the house batteries back up so I could start my generator. Does your generator have a separate battery charge system on it, mine does. That's when I used my car to jump the batteries so I could start the generator.

Joe and Judy

98 Intrigue 10578

Quote from: Lee Zaborowski\[br\
] >

We are stranded (safely in a campground) with a totally dead 12V > system. My Inverter is a RS2000 Sine Wave Inverter/Charger. The

Total

Quote
Coach System display is down. The Norcold shows "low dc" and is > inoperative, as is anything using 12V.

We have 50A shore power (OK according to the surge protector) and

the

Quote
120V systems seem fine - I can watch TV but can't flush the

toilet!.

Quote
>

I have tried to charge using the front panel of the RS2000. The

panel

Quote
shows "low battery" and will go into "bulk charge" but there is no > apparent effect on the batteries so I get nowhere, and in a while
it will go into a "fault" mode. Is there a way to visually check the big breaker fuse between the Inverter and batteries?

Quote
>

Do you have any troubleshooting advice? Is there a breaker
somewhere I need to check? (I've looked at the 2 IOTA breaker panels in the hallway, their OK) I'm suspecting the house batteries are bad (we bought the rig used so don't know about the first 2 years if it's life) but even if bad wouldn't they at least take a charge? Call if you like at 515 708-3390 or 3391.

Re: NEED EMERGENCY ELECTRICAL ASSISTANCE ASAP

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 40402
I'd suggest you first test the batteries. You might have one shorted internally. You might be able to temporarily rearrange the battery connections to get the bad one out of the system and run on the remaining one(s).
----Ron

Re: NEED EMERGENCY ELECTRICAL ASSISTANCE ASAP

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 40403
Quote from: Lee Zaborowski
r />]
Lee,

It may be too obvious but have you checked that the 12V switch just inside the door is in the on position?

Lyle Wetherholt
0-4 Intrigue 11740

Quote
>

We are stranded (safely in a campground) with a totally dead 12V > system. My Inverter is a RS2000 Sine Wave Inverter/Charger. The Total > Coach System display is down. The Norcold shows "low dc" and is > inoperative, as is anything using 12V.

> We have 50A shore power (OK according to the surge protector) and the > 120V systems seem fine - I can watch TV but can't flush the toilet!.

> I have tried to charge using the front panel of the RS2000. The panel > shows "low battery" and will go into "bulk charge" but there is no > apparent effect on the batteries so I get nowhere, and in a while it
will go into a "fault" mode. Is there a way to visually check the big breaker fuse between the Inverter and batteries?

Quote
>

Do you have any troubleshooting advice? Is there a breaker somewhere
I need to check? (I've looked at the 2 IOTA breaker panels in the hallway, their OK) I'm suspecting the house batteries are bad (we bought the rig used so don't know about the first 2 years if it's life) but even if bad wouldn't they at least take a charge? Call if you like at 515 708-3390 or 3391.

Re: NEED EMERGENCY ELECTRICAL ASSISTANCE ASAP

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 40404
---Just had much the same problem. After replacing a solenoid, not the problem, I noticed a couple of LED lights in the bay were glowing dimly. Removed the batteries and checked the ground wires behind and noticed just a touch of corrosion. Took apart cleaned and everything back to normal. Jbells 94 Concept 5111 In Country-Coach- Owners@yahoogroups.com, Lee Zaborowski wrote:

Quote
>

We are stranded (safely in a campground) with a totally dead 12V > system. My Inverter is a RS2000 Sine Wave Inverter/Charger. The

Total

Quote
Coach System display is down. The Norcold shows "low dc" and is > inoperative, as is anything using 12V.

We have 50A shore power (OK according to the surge protector) and

the

Quote
120V systems seem fine - I can watch TV but can't flush the toilet!.

I have tried to charge using the front panel of the RS2000. The

panel

Quote
shows "low battery" and will go into "bulk charge" but there is no > apparent effect on the batteries so I get nowhere, and in a while
it will go into a "fault" mode. Is there a way to visually check the big breaker fuse between the Inverter and batteries?

Quote
>

Do you have any troubleshooting advice? Is there a breaker
somewhere I need to check? (I've looked at the 2 IOTA breaker panels in the hallway, their OK) I'm suspecting the house batteries are bad (we bought the rig used so don't know about the first 2 years if it's life) but even if bad wouldn't they at least take a charge? Call if you like at 515 708-3390 or 3391.

EMERGENCY ELECTRICAL ASSISTANCE RECEIVED

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 40409
I am impressed . . . and thankful. Within an hour of my post here and to Country Coach Technical Assistance I received 3 phone calls . . . early on a Sunday morning yet! It is now early afternoon and it looks like we are whole again and will be good to go tomorrow AM.
Damon Rapozo from Guaranty really started the problem solving, CC Tech Jim Craig provided the detailed reboot sequence, and Al Herman was invaluable with advice on heat control and generator issues. All the other posts were on target or provided good information on related problems. Thanks to everyone!
The root problem for us was a balky generator (which will soon be in a Cummins shop) and a resultant fault which pulled the house battery charge below 12V, after which it was all downhill. The batteries are up over 12V now and still charging, all faults removed. I'm writing up the reboot sequence for the low house battery situation. If anyone wants it e-mail me at the address as found on the From e-mail line above.
Again, the comradeship and helpfulness of this group and Country Coach was impressive!!

Lee (still in Moab, Utah)

Lee Zaborowski, Jeanne Bortz

2007 Country Coach Intrigue #12153 Branson, Missouri
http://jeanneleez.blogspot.com

Re: Another Desert Storm Question

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 40626
There are other sensors which cause the dust storm, mine was caused by a failed air temp sensor in the turbo duct inside the engine compartment. That sensor is mounted on the bottom of the duct work with the sensor facing upward thus acting as a cup gathering any moisture that might form inside the duct, it eventually failed. No matter what other condition your A/C relay is in, the failure of the air sensor will cause the fan to run at full speed continuously.
Putting a baffle below the fan does not solve the problem of the fan running at high speed continuously. In addition to creating a dust storm, if the engine fan is running at high speed you are also costing yourself at least 1 MPG in lost fuel economy. So, while the baffle hides the problem it does not solve the problem. Best to check the sensors and get the fan cycling as it is designed to cycle. I was told by a Cummins tech that the fan, when running at top speed, consumes around 30hp, almost 10% of the power in your 350hp engine.

Ray

2000 Intrigue 11040

Quote from: Larry Feather
>

Also, once I installed the metel plate on the bottom of my

radiator, I

Quote
have no more desert storms. A reasonably simple fix IMO.

Larry 03 Allure 30856

[quote author=kyteflyer_2000"

>

> The other day I noticed the engine cooling fan comes on as soon

as I

Quote
start the engine. Is this normal? It doesn't make any different

if

Quote
the AC is running or not. I even disconnected the relay that

forces

Quote
the fan on when the AC is on. Jumpered it both full on and full

off.

Quote
It didn't make any difference in fan speed that I could notice.

The

Quote
cooling fan is operated by a controller in the side of the

radiator.

Quote
Could it be stuck on? Has any one changed one of these

controllers.

Re: Another Desert Storm Question

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 40627
Because of my poor MPG (7.5), I wish I could find a problem with my fan conrol system, but I've had it checked twice, once by myself and once by CC and everything seems OK.

Larry, 03 36' Allure, 370 ISL 30856

my fan cntrol system

Quote from: travman100"

> There are other sensors which cause the dust storm, mine was caused > by a failed air temp sensor in the turbo duct inside the engine > compartment. That sensor is mounted on the bottom of the duct work > with the sensor facing upward thus acting as a cup gathering any > moisture that might form inside the duct, it eventually failed. No > matter what other condition your A/C relay is in, the failure of

the

Quote
air sensor will cause the fan to run at full speed continuously.
Putting a baffle below the fan does not solve the problem of the

fan

Quote
running at high speed continuously. In addition to creating a dust > storm, if the engine fan is running at high speed you are also > costing yourself at least 1 MPG in lost fuel economy. So, while the > baffle hides the problem it does not solve the problem. Best to

check

Quote
the sensors and get the fan cycling as it is designed to cycle. I

was

Quote
told by a Cummins tech that the fan, when running at top speed, > consumes around 30hp, almost 10% of the power in your 350hp engine.

Ray

2000 Intrigue 11040

[quote author=Larry Feather"

>

> Also, once I installed the metel plate on the bottom of my > radiator, I

> have no more desert storms. A reasonably simple fix IMO.
>

> Larry 03 Allure 30856
>

[quote author=kyteflyer_2000"
>]
> >

> > The other day I noticed the engine cooling fan comes on as soon > as I

> > start the engine. Is this normal? It doesn't make any

different

Quote
if

> > the AC is running or not. I even disconnected the relay that > forces

> > the fan on when the AC is on. Jumpered it both full on and

full

Quote
off.

> > It didn't make any difference in fan speed that I could

notice.

Re: Another Desert Storm Question

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 40639
Larry, newbie Lee here . . . so not so familiar with the CC engine configurations but if your rig has a rear radiator and fan then you are a candidate for a 2-speed Horton Fan Clutch. Cummins can install these (~$650) but your mileage will go up around 0.5 MPH as the fan will not go on until the coolant hits 200 degrees. On my 2005 Monaco Diplomat with the 400 ISL it got me 9+ MPH.

Lee

Lee Zaborowski, Jeanne Bortz

2007 Country Coach Intrigue #12153 Branson, Missouri
http://jeanneleez.blogspot.com
 

Re: Another Desert Storm Question

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 40644
OK, thanks Lee! I'll have to consider that.

Larry

Quote from: Lee Zaborowski\[br\
] >

Larry, newbie Lee here . . . so not so familiar with the CC engine
configurations but if your rig has a rear radiator and fan then you are a candidate for a 2-speed Horton Fan Clutch. Cummins can install these (~$650) but your mileage will go up around 0.5 MPH as the fan will not go on until the coolant hits 200 degrees. On my 2005 Monaco Diplomat with the 400 ISL it got me 9+ MPH.

Quote
Lee

Lee Zaborowski, Jeanne Bortz

2007 Country Coach Intrigue #12153 >

Branson, Missouri
>http://jeanneleez.blogspot.com >

--- On Tue, 8/26/08, Larry Feather wrote: > From: Larry Feather

Subject: [Country-Coach-Owners] Re: Another Desert Storm Question > To: Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 2:43 PM >

Because of my poor MPG (7.5), I wish I could find a
problem with my

Quote
>

fan conrol system, but I've had it checked twice, once by myself

and

Quote
>

once by CC and everything seems OK.

Larry, 03 36' Allure, 370 ISL 30856 >

my fan cntrol system--- In Country-Coach- >

Owners@yahoogroups. com, "travman100" wrote: >
>

> There are other sensors which cause the dust storm, mine was

caused

Quote
>

> by a failed air temp sensor in the turbo duct inside the engine >

> compartment. That sensor is mounted on the bottom of the duct

work

Quote
>

> with the sensor facing upward thus acting as a cup gathering any >

> moisture that might form inside the duct, it eventually failed.

No

Quote
>

> matter what other condition your A/C relay is in, the failure of >
the

> air sensor will cause the fan to run at full speed continuously.

> Putting a baffle below the fan does not solve the problem of the >
fan

> running at high speed continuously. In addition to creating a

dust

Quote
>

> storm, if the engine fan is running at high speed you are also >

> costing yourself at least 1 MPG in lost fuel economy. So, while

the

Quote
>

> baffle hides the problem it does not solve the problem. Best to >

check
> > the sensors and get the fan cycling as it is designed to cycle. I >
was

> told by a Cummins tech that the fan, when running at top speed, >

> consumes around 30hp, almost 10% of the power in your 350hp

engine.

Quote
>

> Ray

> 2000 Intrigue 11040

>

> --- In Country-Coach- Owners@yahoogrou ps.com, "Larry Feather" >

> wrote:

> >

> > Also, once I installed the metel plate on the bottom of my >

> radiator, I

> > have no more desert storms. A reasonably simple fix IMO.

> >

> > Larry 03 Allure 30856
> > > --- In Country-Coach- Owners@yahoogrou ps.com, "kyteflyer_2000" >

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > The other day I noticed the engine cooling fan comes on as

soon

Quote
> as I

> > > start the engine. Is this normal? It doesn't make any >

different

> if

> > > the AC is running or not. I even disconnected the relay

that