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Water Heater By-pass

Yahoo Message Number: 3078
Hi all,

I've been lurking for about 3 or 4 months and this is my first post.

We are the new owners of a 2000 Allure, CCI #30507.

We're in Michigan and need to winterize the water system between winter trips, but our Allure doesn't have a water heater by-pass.
Have any of you installed a water heater by-pass on your coaches? Do you have any suggestions for me?

I've done this on a previous coach, but the plumbing access was significantly easier. My last coach came with a by-pass factory installed. I'm surprised CC doesn't install them.

Thx,
Brian

Re: Water Heater By-pass

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3079
Hi Brian. I am in the same fix as you as I purchased 2000 Allure 30493 last June. I live temporarily in western Mass. and also needed to winterize the unit. I did purchase a bypass kit from Camping World but did not put it on as it would have been costly. It was impossible getting hands behind the heater and removing the unit scared me due to caulking and perhaps damaging the body...This is hopefully my last winter up north so I decided to waste the 6 gals for the water heater. I find it amazing too that CC did not install the bypass kits on units costing over $200grand.

As far as the winterization goes I did do it myself and hope I did it right. 8 years of experience with my previous gas Bounder did not totally prepare me...The ice maker and washer dryer are new and CC just says to use air to blow out the water...I used a total of 12 gals but I did get them on sale...After doing the water lines I then did the ice maker and washer dryer. Just run the antifreeze thru the lines to those 2 as if they are water lines...Not sure if I did it correctly but am pretty certain...I did get info from various sources and even if you disconnect lines to the ice maker and washer/dryer you will still need to rinse thoroughly next Spring to get rid of the antifreeze so I just tried to ram the antifreeze thru...Hope that helps! On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:41:48 -0000 "brian_a2mi" B.Hoxie@...> writes:

Re: Water Heater By-pass

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3080
Hi Brian,

As a new owner of a 2000 Allure myself and first time RV owner as well, I can't be of much help. This is also my first post here.
I am curious though, what is the purpose of a water heater bypass? To prevent freezing, could you not just drain the water heater?
I have just become very familiar with my water heater by repairing the electric heat function. Problem was a bad power switch which is buried under the backside of the water heater itself. My fix was to bypass the switch. I see no value in having a switch in an inaccessible location.

Dave Hills

2000 Allure #30444

brian_a2mi wrote:

Re: Water Heater By-pass

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3083
Dave,

That switch on the hot water heater is put on by the heater manufacturer to keep someone from turning on the hot water heater before the coach is sold.
Once the coach is delivered to the customer the switch is turned on and the customer uses the circuit breaker to turn the hwh off and on. We have never used that switch since we picked up the coach.
Before I retired I worked for an oil company as a project engineer building gas stations. I probably replaced 10 hwhs a year because a new tenent would turn on the hwh before there was water in the system. I even put signs on the breakers and hwhs, but that didn't help when the tenents were from Iran.

Take care,

Bill G. 2001 Magna

Re: Water Heater By-pass

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3085
Dave,

The water heater by-pass is a short hose/tubing with T-valves at each end that allows you to by-pass the water heater. This is so that when you put antifreeze in the system, you don't have to completely fill the water heater tank with antifreeze before antifreeze goes into the hot water lines. With a bypass you can winterize a coach with about 3 gallons of antifreeze and 15 minutes. Without a by-pass it takes 9-13 gallons of antifreeze depending on the size of the water heater. It also takes distinctly longer cuz it's more difficult to blow out the
water beforehand.

Brian

Re: Water Heater By-pass

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3086
Thx for the input Mike,

You're right. You can't get to the back of the water heater thru the access panel. And yes, taking the water heater unit completely out is far too much effort and a bit more risky than I care to take on.
I'm considering taking out the floor of the bathroom sink cabinet and going in from above. Any thoughts or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Unfortunately, I have a few more years before I can start snowbirding for more than a few weeks each winter.

Brian

Re: Water Heater By-pass

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3087
Hi Brian...here's some different thoughts on the subject....and the reason that I use air to clear the system...if you use antifreeze, it's fills the water filter and generally you have to replace the element when you de-winterize or the taste remains forever, and half the time it ruins the element, plus antifreeze doesn't make it into places such as the ice maker unless you run it with the system full of antifreeze, causing it to get red antifreeze into the freezer. My experience is that you can taste the antifreeze no matter what they say if it gets into the ice maker and the water filter.

So even if you put a by pass on the hot water heater you would have to change the water filter and deal with the ice maker????...
By the way, I have had my hot water heater out and it's not a fun afternoon's work but it can be done. Not much room to work and the reconnections are a real pain trying to reach the hoses. (I have some thoughts about this if you decide to try it)

By the way, with a cheap air compressor that has a lock-on connection you can make the air connection at the water input, leave the compressor running and go thru opening all the faucets to purge the system, including the toilet and the ice maker, just don't leave it running long enough to build over 40lbs of pressure without opening a faucet to release the air pressure.....or you can use the on board air if you have a air hose connection, just make sure to open the faucet before you put air into the water system..(too much pressure)...

Ray and Rue

1999 36' Allure 30322

Re: Water Heater By-pass

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3091
Question I have to ask is why are filling your system with rv antifreeze.
I live in the upper midwest and use the down flow drain in the water compartment to drain the water out of the lines open the ice maker line in the outside frigde compartment and drain the water heater on the outside have done this for 3 years now with no problem I use the antifreeze in the traps and in the toilet only the system CC has will aloow the water to be drain from the pape network with faucets open

may try this

Brian Intrigue 10030

Re: Water Heater By-pass

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3094
Hi Brian. I see you are getting many responses...I am intrigued with the one from the person living in the northern mid-west who only uses air...I was just too reluctant to trust that method. I think it is impossible to blow out all the water. Of course, remove the water filter element. I did that regardless at the end of the season.
Why don't you contact the tech service people at CC? Your idea of going thru the bathroom floor is interesting but sounds like more work to me than taking out the water heater. I do not have a house anymore and park the Allure on a field so I cannot keep the unit plugged in. Can you plug in? If so, I might be ready to take my chances and use air to blow out the water lines, keep the RV plugged in, and set the propane furnace at 45 degrees, and keep a close eye on it. Good luck! On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 22:10:23 -0000 "brian_a2mi" B.Hoxie@...> writes:

Re: Water Heater By-pass

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3096
I agree with Brian. I live in Michigan and never did like the idea of antifreeze in my fresh water tank and lines. I can add that I remove the water filter and dump the water out of the housing and put a new, dry one in to be ready for spring, warmer weather, or leaving for warmer climates. I might say here that the filter housing is pretty thick and probably wouldn't break, but why chance it. It is a good time to change the filter anyway.
Lay the the shower head on the bottom of the shower and leave it open so no water will be trapped and do the same for the plumbing bay faucet line while draining. If you have a washer/dryer, remove the drain "catch" tray and dump it. As far as the icemaker, I undo the little line and leave it off as well as the supply line to the valve. You can use a little air to blow out the valve if you want, but I don't think it is necessary. I also found out this year that you don't have to remove the drain valve from the hot water heater.
Just open the pressure relief valve and the bottom drain will completely empty it. I removed the drain valve after doing this and not a drop of water came out. I have a PUR filter on the kitchen sink faucet and I also remove that. Note - the bottom drain petcocks will not completely drain your fresh water tank, but that inch or so of water freezing does not appear to hurt the tank as there is some "give" in it. Remember to open your faucets as you drain to prevent air blockages and add RV antifreeze to your traps as Brian suggested.

I usually leave for Florida in mid-January. I just turn the heat on the day before we leave, reassemble everything, fill up with water and leave. No problems! I do like to fill the water tank when the outside temperature is above 30 degrees, though (for obvious reasons), and there are usually a few days that meet this criteria if you are flexible. If not, carry some drinking water until you reach a campground in a little warmer weather, then fill 'er up.

Joe from Michigan, too!
'97 Intrigue 10332

Re: Water Heater By-pass

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3098
Thx to all who responded to my question.
After reading all the responses, the gist is that most of you, who do winterize your coaches, just drain and blow out the lines. Just to give them credit, that's what CC says in the owners book and on the tech support line.

Now, I do remove the water filter and drain and blow out the lines, including the ice maker; BUT I'm never confident I've gotten water out of all the twists and bends. It's very reassuring to see the red stuff come out at the end of the line and know there isn't a dead space that air pressure missed and we've never noticed any residual flavor. Maybe, I should have more faith that CC, unlike F---tw--d, built the plumbing to be winterized without putting antifreeze in the system other than the drain traps.

Now a couple more questions.
1. I don't have a washing machine, but am plumbed for one. Does anyone have experience of winterizing in this situation? Do the stubbed water lines drain adequately or do I have to put some kind of valve/release on the end of these water lines to let air in?
2. Since I'm comteplating just draining and blowing the lines, is
there a recommended sequence for blowing out the lines? * all hot then all cold or vice versa or both at the same time but each valve in turn?

* nearest to farthest from the water tank or vice versa? * nearest to farthest from the water tank or vice versa for the cold water lines, but from the hot water heater for the hot lines?

Thx again,

Brian, getting colder in MI
2000 Allure, #30507

In Country-Coach-Owners@y..., jdurbin617@a... wrote:
Quote
I agree with Brian. I live in Michigan and never did like the idea

of

Quote
antifreeze in my fresh water tank and lines. I can add that I

remove the

Quote
water filter and dump the water out of the housing and put a new,

dry one in

Quote
to be ready for spring, warmer weather, or leaving for warmer

climates. I

Quote
might say here that the filter housing is pretty thick and probably

wouldn't

Quote
break, but why chance it. It is a good time to change the filter

anyway.

Quote
Lay the the shower head on the bottom of the shower and leave it

open so no

Quote
water will be trapped and do the same for the plumbing bay faucet

line while

Quote
draining. If you have a washer/dryer, remove the drain "catch"
tray and dump

Quote
it. As far as the icemaker, I undo the little line and leave it

off as well

Quote
as the supply line to the valve. You can use a little air to blow

out the

Quote
valve if you want, but I don't think it is necessary. I also found

out this

Quote
year that you don't have to remove the drain valve from the hot
water heater.

Quote
Just open the pressure relief valve and the bottom drain will

completely

Quote
empty it. I removed the drain valve after doing this and not a
drop of water

Quote
came out. I have a PUR filter on the kitchen sink faucet and I

also remove

Quote
that. Note - the bottom drain petcocks will not completely drain

your fresh

Quote
water tank, but that inch or so of water freezing does not appear

to hurt the

Quote
tank as there is some "give" in it. Remember to open your faucets

as you

Quote
drain to prevent air blockages and add RV antifreeze to your traps

as Brian

Quote
suggested.

I usually leave for Florida in mid-January. I just turn the heat

on the day

Quote
before we leave, reassemble everything, fill up with water and

leave. No

Quote
problems! I do like to fill the water tank when the outside
temperature is

Quote
above 30 degrees, though (for obvious reasons), and there are
usually a few

Quote
days that meet this criteria if you are flexible. If not, carry

some

Quote
drinking water until you reach a campground in a little warmer
weather, then

Re: Water Heater By-pass

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3100
I must be one of the few to use anti-freeze. I have the water heater by-pass and the pump main tank by-pass. I first blow out the lines then use the anti-freeze from a gallon jug right into the pump. I had a ruptured housing in my toilet valve assembly and feel it was due to freezing before using the anti-freeze method. It was a little tight installing both by-passes but now it adds not more than 15 minutes and a couple gallons anti-freeze to the procedure. Well worth it, to my way of thinking, for the peace of mind.

Sincerely

George W Becker

gwb36@... 1999 Country Coach Intrigue #10700

Re: Water Heater By-pass

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3101
I too use the air method and only use antifreeze in the traps.
Regarding the water filter, I find that if I remove it after blowing out the lines the filter container is completely empty. I still remove the filter but it is much less of a mess without the container full of water.
I too would be interested in the sequence. I always wonder if I am causing a problem by doing one before the other.
brian_a2mi wrote:

Re: Water Heater By-pass

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3109
Thanks Mike Remember the coach is designed to drain itself but many people had other coaches they had to drain or add antifreeze to to prevent freezing I too had another coach a Winnebago that had a bypass but I put anitfreeze in the system and for a couple of trip we would have the scent of the antifreeze but this is just info for you to choose what is best for you Brian 95 Intrigue 10030
 

Re: Draining Water and Waste Water Systems

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3110
Hi Folks,

Just a thought.

After draining the subject systems by the several methods suggested, I find that with all valves open, lines disconnected and plugs removed, a short drive helps in removing remaining trapped fluids.

Fred Kovol

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