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Re: alternator charging coach batteries

Reply #50 –
Yahoo Message Number: 66488
Good call Tom. The leads on my echo charge were reversed from the factory, took me some time to figure it out. When I talked to CC rep he said there were a few that the leads were reversed.

Earl Densten

03 Intrigue 11554

Re: Echo Charger saga

Reply #51 –
Yahoo Message Number: 66489
The green light, means NOTHING. I was having the same problems and my mechanic said it was the echo charger I mentioned the green light.

Short story, changed the echo charger, no more problems.

George

'04 Inspire 51061

Re: Forum Housekeeping

Reply #52 –
Yahoo Message Number: 66490
Greetings from not-so-balmy Florida!
Somewhere along the line the topic of "alternator charging coach batteries" became an Echo Charger issue. This is a good time to remind ourselves to change the subject line to fit the actual subject. I'm as guilty as the next guy at just replying to a long since departed subject. Moderator Herb can't do this for us.
When we search the archives for help, it is a lot smoother when the subject line fits the discussion.

Just sayin'...

Merry Christmas!
Jay

05 Inspire

Re: Echo Charger saga

Reply #53 –
Yahoo Message Number: 66494
We're considering doing just that particularly for the coach start battery. Not sure whether mixing a new coach battery with older house batteries is a no, no, particularly if the house batteries appear to have been kept fully charged. I know one shouldn't mix different aged batteries in the same bank but this is a start battery in a different bank even though they are, is effect, connected while driving down the road.

Any rules of thumb on the subject?

Jim M

'02 Intrigue#11410, ISL 400

Re: alternator charging coach batteries

Reply #54 –
Yahoo Message Number: 66495
According to the wire coding and placard on the EC the leads are connected to the correct battery banks. The connectors are arranged so that it's impossible to connect them differently without an adapter or jumper. Do you mean that the wire coding was incorrect so that if the directions were followed the wires were hooked up to the wrong battery bank? I checked mine for continuity from the EC connector through the fuse holder to the battery bank terminal in the battery compartment and they appear to be correct, red to house, red striped to coach.

Jim M

'02 Intrigue #11410 ISL 400

Re: Forum Housekeeping

Reply #55 –
Yahoo Message Number: 66497
Good point. As you've noted the problem started as a low voltage indication after starting on a trip which suggests and may well be primarily an alternator and/or bad battery problem but kind of segued into an Echo Charger subject while trying to figure out why the start battery bank voltage was consistently low in spite of storage on shore power which appeared to keep the house batteries charged OK, apparently a problem with the EC which others have had and noted with lots of discussion resulting on exactly how the EC is supposed to work, the way it should be connected and location of components not to mention possible improved substitutes for the EC. For me the whole discussion has been very educational. The alternator/start battery problem will be attacked and hopefully corrected at our local diesel service center today but it seem we're pretty much on our own when it comes to EC and their foibles.

Jim M

'02 Intrigue #11410 ISL 400

Re: Echo Charger saga

Reply #56 –
Yahoo Message Number: 66498
Hello All

I posteed about my echo charger issue a little over a year ago. From the factory, both EC leads were wired to the house battery! This was found on my coach at the combiner solenoid operated by engine oil pressure. ALSO, CC had added their own fuse, in addition to the EC fuses, on the chassis battery EC circuit. It was a 7 amp fuse! The EC manual says that the chassis battery circuit can charge at 15 amps - duh! Found this fuse, changed to 15 amps, thereafter no problem and fully charged chassis batteries. Because of the constant phantom draw on the chassis batteries the voltage was somewhat lower than the house batteries.

Kindest Regards,

Brad Burgess

Former 08 Intrigue #12249

Re: alternator charging coach batteries

Reply #57 –
Yahoo Message Number: 66501
Yes, and the factory was still reversing leads on the Echo Charger several years later, on a batch of 2007 Allures around serial number 31466!!!!!

Herb

Forum Moderator

2007 Allure 430 #31466 (manufactured 07/2006)

Re: alternator charging coach batteries

Reply #58 –
Yahoo Message Number: 66502
It has been several years, but if I remember correctly the Echo Charger has two leads, a Red lead and a Red/White lead, one goes to the Inverter and the other goes to the chassis battery. There are inline fuses on each lead, somehow at the factory they were reversed.

Earl Densten

03 Intrigue 11554

Re: Echo Charger leads

Reply #59 –
Yahoo Message Number: 66503
This situation has been mentioned but the authors don't state that the solid red lead from the EC was connected to the coach start batteries and the striped red led was connected to the house deep cycle batteries but I presume that is what is mean by "reversing the leads" since the EC manual and placard on the device clearly indicate the solid red goes to the house deep cycle batteries. This can be checked by looking at the installation but in order to see the details you need to take off the entire panel behind which the inverter and other hardware including the EC is mounted - a real gem of convenience in design and planning. Just taking off the inspection panel window cover isn enough.

Incidentally the EC manual states it should be mounted on a vertical surface and, at least in my coach, it's mounted on the ceiling of the compartment - maybe handy for the installer and space saving but making it difficult to read the placard and being sure which lead lead where.

Jim M

'02 Intrigue#11410 ISL 400

Re: alternator charging coach batteries

Reply #60 –
Yahoo Message Number: 66504
That is correct but which factory, CC or the manufacturers of the EC? Actually it's a red lead with a yellow stripe that supposed to go to the coach start battery according to the installation manual.

Jim M

Re: Echo Charger saga

Reply #61 –
Yahoo Message Number: 66980
Interesting discussions in this thread. I am also having a problem with my chasis batteries not charging when I am plugged in. I previously had a problem with my coach batteries not charging but found the charger function had been turned off somehow on the inverters. Easy fix thanks to some help from this forum. The coach batteries are working fine now however my chasis batteries are not charging. When I actually run the engine they charge quickly, but they don't hold the charge.
I found my echo charger (thanks to the forum) and the green light is on and both fuses are fine. So two questions. First question is how can I tell if the echo charger is actually sending a charge to the chasis batteries? My chasis batteries were drained completely several times so I am afraid they may be shot now. Second question is if there is a way to tell if the batteries are shot without taking them out and bringing to a shop?

Thanks for the help!
TJ

6525M
'06 Magna

Re: Echo Charger saga

Reply #62 –
Yahoo Message Number: 66981
You can use a volt meter to check the batteries. Any battery under 12 volts resting is shot. Should have over 13 volts if they are getting any kind of a charge. You should not have any draw on the starter batteries setting, so strongly suspect they are shot. Another check is to use a hydrometer and check each cell. Also can use a digital voltmeter to check voltage of each cell. Remove caps and stick the leads in the water from one cell to the next. A bad cell can pull down the batteries as one cell can internally discharge and it only takes one bad cell to have a bad battery. If one battery is bad, need to replace both as a set. Suspect your batteries are 4 to 5 years old. Most likely end of life.

Leonard

97' Magna 5418

Re: Echo Charger saga

Reply #63 –
Yahoo Message Number: 66994
I read the echo charger service manual on line and came to the following conclusions. This is my opinion only and would welcome any corrections by the experts here.
The echo charger is not really a charger per se (it does not take AC power and create DC power to add to your battery) but rather think of it as a siphon that takes "spare" power from your house battery and gives it to your chassis battery. The bigger the difference between the two batteries the less power it gives (it shuts off at 2 volts difference). I interpret this to mean that it will not allow a dead chassis battery to drain a good house battery. I think it is designed to maintain a charge level in the chassis battery in a HEALTHY system when you are plugged into shore power. If your chassis battery is in a weak condition the echo will not keep it charged. (by design) So for instance if you are plugged in, the house batteries are fully charged, and over a period of time you are losing a little chassis battery power (let's say by frequent use of the electric door locks) the echo charger will give it a little power from the house battery until they are equally charged.
My chassis battery would not stay charged for more than a day or two, I had a green light and good fuses on the echo charger. I changed the 4 year old 8D and my problem went away.

John

Re: Echo Charger saga

Reply #64 –
Yahoo Message Number: 66996
I agree with your understanding I have had a conditioner installed on the chassis batteries for more than five years. A green LED on the unit indicates a voltage greater than 13 volts The lite is visible through the door louvers This is a unit designed for OTR truckers

BOB 06 intrigue 12047

Re: Echo Charger saga

Reply #65 –
Yahoo Message Number: 66997
Hello All

I posted on this last year - check archives. My echo charger was incorrectly wired from the factory - BOTH leads were attached to house battery points - the green light was on but it was just a big loop! Also, CC inserted it's own fuse in the chassis battery line (in addition to the two slo-blow fuses provided with the EC.) They used a 7.5 amp fuse in an EC line that generates up to 15 amps DC - DUH! Changed out wiring to be correct and replaced the 7.5 amp fuse with a 15 - no more problems and very happy chassis batteries. If interested please feel free to call me at 480-502-2651. These issues were NOT uncommon with CC Echo Charger wiring.

Kindest Regards,
Brad Burgess

UTB (used to be) 08 Intrigue #12249

Re: Echo Charger saga

Reply #66 –
Yahoo Message Number: 66999
Glad to hear your problem went away with new batteries. I have similar problem and have brand new batteries, both chassis start and house AGM deep cycle and, unfortunately, after sitting for a few days plugged in to shore power I find my new coach start battery dropped to 10 VDC even though, theoretically, the echo "charger" should have been tracking the house bank through the charger cycles to reach the current 13.6 VDC float voltage (house bank). I understand that the design of the "echo charger" is such that the start battery never quite gets to the identical voltage level as the house batteries but with a functioning inverter/charger is should come closer than 2 VDC difference.

I recently opened up the compartment with the echo charger and it appears the fuses for the echo charger are intact and that is connected correctly on either side of the "battery boost" solenoid (red wire to house/striped wire to start side). I'm concluding that the echo charger itself may be faulty or been damaged and have ordered a new one to substitute. It's unfortunate that there doesn't seem to be any test or reset function to verify this gadget is actually working other than plug into shore power and check the coach start battery to see if it's holding voltage. In the meantime I keep the start battery up with a "battery minder" type charger but that's not really a substitute for a properly functioning echo charger.

It's worth noting that the echo charger installation in CC's is not exactly correct as per the installation manual. it is hooked up on either side of the boost solenoid rather than directly to the batteries and, at least in my coach, is mounter horizontally upside down on the ceiling of the inverter compartment rather than vertically as is specifically recommended in the install manual. I've also heard a significant number were installed with the leads reversed.

i agree with your description that the "echo charger" is not a battery charger in the usual sense but rather is more a sophisticated isolator that allows current to flow from a house bank to the start battery within certain programmed parameters by sensing the voltage status of each battery bank.

Jim M

'02 Intrigue #11410 ISL 400.

Re: Echo Charger saga

Reply #67 –
Yahoo Message Number: 67006
Where was that 7.5 A fuse in the echo charger circuit?

I just checked my wiring diagram for the 12 V wiring and boost system and note that the schematic is incorrect. It has the red echo charger wire going to the start (chassis) battery and the striped one going to the domestic (house) battery. Recently I checked mine and thought they were correct but I'm going back to recheck and see if, in fact, it was wired according to this diagram in which case it would explain my continued trouble getting the echo charger to work.

Jim M

'02 Intrigue #11410 ISL 400

Re: Echo Charger saga

Reply #68 –
Yahoo Message Number: 67017
James, I would think that once your house batteries are charged, you should be able to check the function of the echo charger by measuring the voltage at the leads coming off of the echo charger. If you have a clamp ammeter, you could also measure the current.
I know this does not help, but I have no problem with my Echo at all, on shore or solar power. I do have AGM chassis and house batteries.

Rich 2002 Magna

Re: Echo Charger saga

Reply #69 –
Yahoo Message Number: 67021
Thanks, Rich. After discovering the new chassis start battery down to 10 VDC I brought it up to 12.95VDC using a low output battery minder type charger, then disconnected and rechecked the voltage across the chassis battery terminals after a few hours and found it was holding at 12.95VDC (house floating at 13.6VDC) so my echo charger may be working OK now that the batteries are all good and closer to the same voltage. I don't know how one can check the output of the EC other than at the chassis terminals while everything is connected and charging. If you disconnect the output of the EC then it's disconnected from the chassis batteries and can't sense their status so that a reading from that wire probably wouldn't mean anything.

In going over the wiring diagrams I got with the coach I find the wiring connection for the EC incorrect on the detailed pullout for the inverter compartment, ie. the red wire from the EC is shown attached to the chassis side terminal of the booster solenoid and the striped to the domestic (house) side. On the other hand on the large wiring layout diagram for the whole coach the EC is shown wired just the opposite (correct) way. I've got to pull off the compartment wall on which the small access panel is mounted again, unbundle the wires and make absolutely sure which side of the solenoid my EC wires are attached and where the main cable on those terminals go - chassis battery or domestic (house) bank - a real PIA.

On those two wiring diagrams, incidentally, the cable size from the solenoid to the hot (battery) side of the cutoff switches are reversed between the two drawings, one being 2 ga and the other 0/2 so one can't simply look at the solenoid terminal main cable size and be sure of where they wind up.

Jim M

'02 Intrigue #11410 ISL 400

Re: Echo Charger saga

Reply #70 –
Yahoo Message Number: 67022
Hi Rich,

Just a minor point. A clamp on ammeter is basically an AC device. It will not do well at measuring DC currents. There are clamp on devices that use different technologies that will do better but would probably not be found in the average RVer's tool chest.

Sorry for being a pain. Maybe it is the lousy weather here in AL.

Don Seager

Re: Echo Charger saga

Reply #72 –
Yahoo Message Number: 67040
Don, since the weather is lousy, why don't you go to Sears and look at their clamp ammeters. I just got one for around $60 that measures DC current accurately enough for general purposes. I used it on my solar cells and it worked and on my car. It got good reviews. It even comes with a thermocouple. http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_03482369000P
Rich 2002 Magna

Re: Echo Charger saga

Reply #73 –
Yahoo Message Number: 67042
Rich, Sorry my bad. That's what happens when you have been away from it for 15 years. Well at least I now have to go research how they make it work. That should keep in my place for a little while. Oh, no Sears here either, darn

Don Seager

2004 Allure 31046

Re: Echo Charger saga

Reply #74 –
Yahoo Message Number: 67075
Jim,

As previously discussed with you, I'm having same problems you are & did diagnostic work on my EC yesterday--which is blinking green. Determined that red EC wire went to house batteries by unplugging the red wire connection & checking voltage at that lead which matched that of the house batteries. Did the same with the red/white wire & it matched the voltage on the chassis battery. I believe the wiring is correct since it matched the wiring diagram on the EC--I'll double check that though. Wouldn't this check method preclude you from having to disassemble the panel & unbundle wires?
My chassis batteries measured 13.7 volts and I was getting no output from the EC--although I broke the connection to the chassis battery to measure this. Is this a legitimate check of the EC? I'm assuming my EC is bad.
One other question for the forum: my surge protector is humming pretty loud when plugged into shore power. Is this an indication that it needs to be replaced or does it just need to be maintained?

Thanks,

Fred Compton

2002 Intrigue # 11407