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Motor over heating

Yahoo Message Number: 50026
I am having to manage my RPM continuously when climbing to keep the motor from over heating. I am currently enroute to Sparks, NV Cummins Service Center to have in looked at. Are there any comments about their service or any other company in that area?

Jerry

'07 Allure 31485

Re: Motor over heating

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50035
Could you tell us what temperatures you're getting and the conditions (outside temps, road terrain, etc.)?

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Lee Zaborowski
07 Intrigue 12153

Re: Motor over heating

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50038
Jerry

I just completed a 2yr saga of overheating with my 07 allure 470. I am happy to say that the problem has been solved, I may be able to help. My overheating occurred during any ambient temp situation over 75 degrees and climbing any type of grade. The problem was miss diagnosed by a number of shops and lots of dollars. The bottom line is it came from the factory with a fan that would run 1800 rpm at max engine speed. The bypass in the hydraulic fan motor was the problem once the spring pressure was set right in the fan motor it now runs at 2800 rpm and everything works fine. Recently at 95 coming across the Nevada desert I could climb most hills without gearing down however I found that I could the engine below 215 degrees if I kept the RPM above 2000. Call me directly if you more onfo Cell 925 78 4385
japolk@...

Re: Motor over heating

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50040
My coach cummins engine shutdown while descending Hwy 80 from Donner Pass. We drifted into Truckee and could not restart the engine. The rig was towed to Cummins Rocky Mountain in Reno for repair.
Their diagnosis was a failed injection pump. I later learned that things like a failed fuel shutdown solenoid or a failed mechanical fuel pump could cause the same symptoms.
Because I was not local and had to return home for work, I will never know whether the injection pump was the real cause because I had no second opinion.
Next, they installed a new injection pump. They did not suggest or consider having mine rebuilt at a lesser cost or buying a local rebuilt pump at lesser cost.
Then suprisingly they also added a new mechanical fuel pump to the reapair cost as a "good maintenance procedure". Could it be that was the only failure in the breakdown?
I asked what caused the failure so it could be avoided in the future. The answer was that the injection pump was a maintenance item that will fail about every five years. I now know that is not a fact.
So, their technitions probably know the Cummins engines well. They should excell at diagnosis. But, they are probably parts changers not a least cost repair facility. They will spend your money well and in large amounts.
At Cummins West, I received an estimate for a oil leak repair of $2,300. I have successfully repaired that leak over two years ago wth a $7.95 can of gooks from Napa......
I provide the above because I think the Cummins repair shops have highly qualified people, but they do not provide the least cost effective solution at times.

Dean

95 Magna 5280

Re: Motor over heating

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50047
Lee,

For the first two days we were between Tucson and the N. Rim of the Grand Canyon. The ambient temp ranged from 107 to high 90's as we climbed. The motor reached 222 on the silver leaf. Today crossing western Utah and easter NV the ambient temp was high 70's and the motor reached 212 in a long climb. I was using 3rd gear, 30-35 mph, and 1800-2000 RPM.

Jerry

jsmmrlin@...

Re: Motor over heating

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50052
Hi Jerry. Your report does make it sound like you were operating in an extreme environment - very high ambient temperatures, long climbs, and significant elevation. Seems like you handled it correctly though you got close to derating at 222, but no harm, no foul. In my readings, 210-215 is apparently a tolerable range to operate if you watch it carefully. Does this experience necessarily mean you have a problem to fix? That is to ask, was this a rare occurrence, or does the overheating happen often?

Other than these extreme situations, where does your coolant temperature usually read? Have you read the 'The Silverleaf Seminar' article you can download at their website?

Just trying to understand your experience.

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Lee Zaborowski
07 Intrigue 12153
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Re: Motor over heating

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50055
On our '06 Allure with the ISL our normal range peaks @ 205. If we are in more extreme conditions it will get to the 210 range at which point we aggressively manage it to keep it under 220 to avoid a de-rating and possible problems.
As Lee pointed out, it is essential to keep the RPM's up. If under very extreme conditions (we faced 115 ambient and grades going from Baker to Pahrump a week ago) we will also drop the speed to reduce the load on the engine while increasing the RPM's. For example, at one point we were down to 30MPH, RPM's about 2000 and in these conditions kept the engine temp to below 214.
Also, if youy know you will be in these extreme conditions, turn on your dash A/C early. This will force the engine cooling fan to run at full speed helping cooling.

Re: Motor over heating

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50056
This is an interesting discussion. My years of towing with gas rigs, now our first diesel have show me under 220 with a load and hard climb is doing well. All the oils, engine/transmission will handle 220. Over 220, then things start to get hot and the life of the oil will be effected. 250 will adversely shorting the life of the best oils. Some things to watch for are excess coolant loss. If one pulls, heats up to 220, cools off quick after reaching the top, transmission will take longer then engine, and one is not loosing coolant then things are doing well. IF one starts blowing out coolant, THEN things are to hot. At least this has been my experience. One must remember the engine is running at 190 with thermostat. It is unreal to expect it not to gain, 200 is only 10 degrees, 220 is only 30 degrees, that does not seem like much when an engine is under full load. Seems each unit will find it's level and then just set there, and all the discussion on downshifting and keeping the RPM's up are the same for gas and diesel. It's only smart driving.

Leonard
97 Magna

Re: Motor over heating

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50058
My thermostat is a 185 degree unit which does not fully open until over 200 degrees. over 225 degrees seems to be where the alarm goes off and the 8.3L engine shuts down.

Dean

Magna 5280

Re: Motor over heating

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50064
I agree with all that is being said. I've been led to believe that 226 is the temperature our electronic engines are set to derate and 210-215 is a happy, happy range for our diesels to operate BUT you've got to watch that temp closely.

In my experiences, at moderate ambient temps and conditions my coach cruises around 195 to 200 +/- so 210-215 does seem high but apparently it's OK, just needs to be watched.

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Lee Zaborowski
07 Intrigue 12153

Re: Motor over heating

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50070
I'm a born worrier and watch my temp constantly. 192-196 is about normal with the occasional 200 on a hill. The I start to worry.
But what I want to know is 'why does anyone travel on days that are over 100'? Unless you have to travel arn't you better off sitting and enjoying a beers somewhere cool? Or traveling at night.

Bruce

2001 Intrigue #11278

Re: Motor over heating

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50072
Well if we were driving on the freeway primarily and could stay up later then night time wul dbe best.
For us, we have to travel from So Cal to So NV every month an din the summers it is not unusual to see it at 90+ first thing in the monring and remaining at over 100 until after 7 at night. Since our monthly run takes almost 8 hours and we don't do as well at night (just getting older) and at least 1/2 the drive in on unlighted 2 lane highways with no shoulders, day time is about it for us.
We usually start our by 6 AM at the latest to arrive just befor ethe peak temps but even then had 115 a week or so ago. Not fun but manageable.

Today (Pahrump NV) it was suposed to get to 101 but ended up @ 107.
BTW -- with the roof air running and the fans on it really isn't bad inside -- just puts more empahsis on managing the engine temps.

Re: Motor over heating

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50075
Bruce,

I like your thinking - a cold beer would have been nice. We got stuck in Tucson due to my wife's knee surgery. This was our first trip in the CC and we didn't know that we had a cooling problem until we started climbing north of Phoenix.

Jerry

'07 Allure 31485

Re: Motor over heating

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50076
Lee,

I have not read "The Silverleaf Seminar", but I will, thanks.
On flat roads, with ambient temps up to 90 (today in eastern NV) I was running at 200. The climbs today were about 2,000' (5000-7000' elevation) and the highest temp I saw was 212. But this required constant monitoring and manually shifting to keep the RPM around 1800-2000.
My new issue is using the engine brake without getting huge RPM spikes when it down shifts when I am already near 2000 RPM. Is there something about this in the archives?
I appreciate your interest and comments. This is our first summer mountain trip and it has turned into a real learning experience.

Jerry

'07 Allure 31485

Re: Motor over heating

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50080
Jerry

I have a 07 Allure with precisely the same temp issues as you have, I have not found a solution to the down shifting etc but we may want to compare more detailed notes .
Jim

japolk@... Allure 470
41385