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Water as temporary coolant

Yahoo Message Number: 50168
I'm converting to Final Charge OAT technology antifreeze which is good for 300,000 miles without a change or additive. I've drained 14 gallons of conventional coolant out of my Cummins ISL 400, but know there is some coolant left behind in the Hydro-Hot loop and in the heater loop. I'm just guessing it is about 2 gallons. I want to fill up with water twice and drive to get the engine hot so as to mostly displace the old coolant in these loops.
Do you think that is ok to do for two 10 mile trips to get the engine hot and circulate the water without risk of damage from cavitation?

Thanks

George Harper
04 Allure
31093

Re: Water as temporary coolant

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50174
Quote from: George Harper"

George
Below is an Dec 2008 excerpt from an expert on another forum on how to properly flush your radiator. It talks to CAT, but most of the procedures are the same. Important points as I recall:

- Use distilled water to flush

- Use 100% concentration antifreeze and adjust 50/50 concentration after. reason is, you will never get all of the water out and if you use 50/50 antifreeze, you can never get the right (50/50)concentration. Read below.

Larry 03 Allure 30856

From another author: Here are two articles I wrote on the Cooling System for the Caterpillar RV Engine Owners Club-- but most of this will be the same for your rig. Cooling System 101 I just changed out my coolant to Caterpillar ELC and replaced all water hoses and belts. Thought I would share the experience. To my knowledge no chassis/coach maker is using ELC?so all are "low silicate coolant for diesels" with included or added SCA. Coolant needs to be changed per manufacturer's instructions (usually every 3 years). Additionally the SCA, pH and freeze point need to be checked on regular intervals using SCA test strips and SCA added as needed. The test strips are inexpensive and easy to use (we check the SCA concentration in all coaches at Cat RV Club Rallies). When either the time lapses (time starts when coolant installed in cooling system, NOT when purchased) or testing reveals an out-of-line conditions like pH or freeze point, it is time to change it. You can avoid all the testing and SCA adding, and go to 6 year change intervals by going to Caterpillar ELC and get better cooling system protection as well. Whichever coolant you choose, most of the steps are the same. The job is reasonably time consuming TO DO RIGHT, but low-tech. Turn dash heater to full hot for the rest of the procedure?fan off. With the engine cold or at least cool, drain coolant. On some, there is a drain cock on the radiator. On others, pull the lower radiator hose. I catch it in 2 Rubbermade 10 gallon storage bin lined with black trash sacks so I do not even get them dirty. At the end of the whole process, use a coffee can and funnel to pour old coolant into new coolant/water containers for recycling. Our city maintenance shop recycles coolant for free. Refill cooling system with tap water. IMPORTANT: Be sure to remove any air lock from the thermostat housing. Some systems have a hose set up for this. On ours I just loosen the coolant line to the air pump and bleed the air out. Allow engine to warm up (using the cruise control to select idle speed of 1,000-1,100 speeds this up). Run for about 10 minutes at normal temp. If the temp gauge does not rise as normal, you likely have an air block and need to bleed the thermostat housing. Allow engine to cool 20-30 minutes and drain again. Repeat until the color is clear. At this point, if this is the first coolant change on a 2-3 year old coach and you are not changing coolant brands/types, skip right to "Last rinse". For older systems or for switching types of coolant, add a Cooling System Cleaner such as Cat Fast Acting Cooling System Cleaner 4C4611. Follow directions. Run, allow engine to cool, drain and again flush until effluent is clear. The flushing is markedly sped up by pulling off the heater hose (usually 5/8 to ¾" lines going to dash heater/motor-aid water heater, etc from the water pump. Put a hose nozzle in the hose and let it run until what comes out is clear. Run the engine to temperature at least once with tap water. If your hoses are over 3-4 years old, this is a good time to change them as well (before last rinse). Same for thermostat(s). Last Rinse is with distilled water. At $.62/gal at Walmart, it is silly to skip this step and leave your system full of high-mineral content water (there will be several gallons of residual water that you can not easily remove). Run engine for 10 minutes after getting to operating temperature. Cool and drain. Also drain and flush your coolant overflow container and refill with new coolant/distilled water. Add the proper amount of Coolant CONCENTRATE (NOT PRE-DILUTE) to make 50% of cooling system capacity. My cooling system is 18 gallons, so I added 9 gallons of Caterpillar ELC CONCENTRATE (119-5150) (plus one for overflow container). Top off with distilled water to achieve your 50/50 mixture. This is also a good time to clean the OUTSIDE of the radiator/after-cooler whether you have rear or side radiator. On rear radiator, most if the debris will be on the FRONT of the after-cooler (accessed from under the bed). On side radiators, most debris is on the outside of the after-cooler (side of coach). If it is just dirt, a hose and regular nozzle is all you need. If greasy or oily, use a degreaser such as Dawn. But be SURE to rinse it off completely. Check belts while you are in there. Overheating Article I have had several calls this week about overheating-- guess it's that time of year. On all coaches, but PARTICULARLY REAR RADIATOR coaches, the after- cooler and radiator need to be cleaned AT LEAST ONCE A YEAR. You can verify that you actually need to clean them by taking a strong flashlight. Access the engine from the TOP (bedroom). Shine the flashlight inside the fan shroud/between fan blades. The fan blades "sling" the dirt toward the perimeter, so you want to make sure that the perimeter is as clean as the center (You are looking at the front ((Front of coach)) of the after-cooler. The radiator is behind that the after-cooler(back of coach). Yes, there are a few coaches with stacked radiator/after-cooler and these can be cleaned from the back (back of coach). If you just have dirt on the after-cooler, a hose with garden nozzle will work fine. If there is oil/greasy deposit, get the engine a little warmed up and turn it off. Wet the after-cooler and spray some Dawn dish washing detergent (Some use Simple Green) along with water on it (AFTER-COOLER) from the FRONT inside the fan shroud. Let sit, but not until it dries out. Hose out. Repeat. Pressure washers are dangerous-- it is hard to maneuver them around the fan blades and VERY easy to bend the fins. You will also want to clean the radiator which is done from the back/outside of the coach. But this is NOT where most of the dirt will be deposited. And make sure the crankcase breather (1" ID open hose on most Caterpillar engines) is extended to behind the air intake (shroud) for the cooling system. Also verify that the extension ONLY goes downhill from the engine (no dip loop or sag) or you could do serious engine damage in cold weather. One of the byproducts of combustion is water vapor which can freeze if allowed to collect in the extension and if it blocked the whole tube BAD NEWS. Now, if you are climbing a hill and experiencing overheating, use the transmission down arrow to select a lower gear. For a given road speed, XX number of HP are required (read that also as heat produced). Producing XX HP (same heat load) but with the water pump turning at say 2,100 RPM instead of 1,600 RPM WILL reduce engine temperatures. But it will also increase fuel consumption. So I view this as a short range fix ONLY. Best answer is to get the cooling system back to 100%

Re: Water as temporary coolant

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50181
The article Larry shared here is written by Brett Wolfe, who is one of the resident Cat Engine gurus on the CAT RV CLUB site (CATRVCLUB@yahoogroups.com). We joined that Yahoo Group and the FMCA Club when we got our Intrigue last fall.

If you have a Cat engine, this is a must group to be a part of. The depth of discussion and information on Cat engines is outstanding.
IMHO the Cat Club is a must join for Cat engine owners. Yes, I admit I am an unabashed supporter of the Cat Club.

--

Lee Zaborowski
07 Intrigue 12153

Re: Water as temporary coolant

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50217
Take a look in the files section. There is a procedure in there for flushing the system. Also, the procedure should be in your manuals. If it is a Cummins, a quick call to 1-800-diesels would answer the question as well.

Jim Hughes

2000 Allure #30511

Re: Water as temporary coolant

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50223
Hello Lee,

I met a guy in a new Monaco in Tennessee who had a bad radiator ( same as the CC radiators) and since he didn't have enough water on board he emptied his gray water tank into his radiator and drove 300 miles to B. Gregg in Knoxville. Gray water, soap, greae, old coffee, bad wine, etc, makes good coolant evidently. I've told this story before, but I met him at the B. Gregg dealership when my radiator went out nearby. I left my coach there, drove the toad back to Texas and waited on the call from B. Gregg as to when my coach would be ready under the CC waranty. They called and three weeks later I flew back to Knoxville. When I pulled into the B. Gregg lot, there sat the same guy still waiting on Monaco to send him a radiator. He was not a happy camper when he found out my coach was ready.

R. D. Vanderslice
06 Allure 470 31294

Now sitting in beautiful Hearthstone Grove In Petoskey, Michigan. Leaving Saturday for Traverse Bay Resort, Michigan. First time to Michigan and loving it.

Re: Water as temporary coolant

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50224
Hey R. D. when you get to heading south come on down to Branson! Or see you in Amarillo in the spring. It will be a great CAT CLUB Rally,

Lee