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Our Story of the stressfull purchase experience from Demartini RV

Yahoo Message Number: 50297
I would like to tell the story of our stressful experience buying our 05 Country Coach affinity from Demartini RV in Grass Valley.
We had heard nothing but good things about this dealer and stopped by on our way back to Canada to look at some Motor homes last fall. We kept in touch for the winter with our salesman Jay and when we saw a 05 Country Coach affinity that looked like it had all the parameters to full time in we gave them a call. It was still available and I hit the road driving 20 hours to have a look.
The coach looked in good condition but was a repo so even in the initial sales walk through we found numerous things that did not work i.e.:, awning, fridge, 110 kept kicking out, batteries looked cooked. Also there was a recall on the marker lights and a Canadian service bulletin that the driver and passenger seat needed to be replaced to transport Canada specs.
The deal we drew up was, I would put a deposit on the coach, demartini would pay to replace the seats and look after the light recall. At the time when the work was done and Country Coach issued the recall clearance letter, which we need to import the coach to Canada, we would pay the balance and pick up the coach.
The following points were discussed and were very clearly defined: The things we had found faulty, would be fixed.
There would be a full PDI, which the salesman said would be very thorough and pick up any other problems, which would be fixed. We were assured EVERYTHING on the coach would be in working order.
An oil change would be done, as there were no service records on the coach.
There were no manuals with the coach, which put us off the deal but we were reassured we would be shown how to operate everything in a walkthrough.
We also asked to have some add - ons as well, a wineguard travler for Star Choice, a receiver in the bedroom and living room and a full tow set-up for the Honda element we bought and an M & G brake system.
So off I went back to Canada to await the call to pick up the coach.
After a month we received a call. The deal was off as it was too much work getting what they needed to do the recall work and it was not assured that Country Coach would supply the Recall clearance letter. All work on the coach was put on hold and the part we ordered were cancelled by the dealer. We were devestated as we had already made arrangements to move, sell the house and thought we had a commitment from the dealer. I got on the phone with Country Coach who said Demartini had only to perform the recall work and had been told to supply the proof of work and the letter would be sent the same day. I have my doubts whether Demartini really put much effort into communicating with CC as it took me 15 minutes to get the parts air freighted to them and a call to Villa to get the seats in 3 days delivered to them as well. Turned out they could get the lights across the street at napa for $7.50 each. As we had a contract the deal was on again.
A couple weeks later I got as call the coach was ready so we loaded the car and made a reservation on the ferry to head down (20 hours) that afternoon the phone rang, and we were told by demartini parts dep. that the wrong base plate for the Honda was ordered and the right one was 2 weeks away as there were none in stock. I got on the phone to road master who said they had 10 in stock and then got demartini to get one shipped the next day. (I don't think they had even tried to order one!) With that sorted out and a long conversation with Jay pointing out that we could not get any work done to the coach on Vancouver Island so please, please make sure everything on the coach was fixed and working we assured it was ready to go so off we went.
Demartini had told us they would pay for our room so we asked Jay to book us a room. He then changed the tune to they would only pay for the first night and would not pay for the pet fee which seemed a bit chincy to me but whatever. In the morning we headed over to do the paperwork on the coach. The week before we had wired the full amount to them so they had already been paid in full plus we prepaid the invoice for the extra add ons, parts and labour that we had ordered.
While we waited for the paperwork to get done we started moving some of our stuff into the coach at which time we noted: Batteries were dead, all power to right side of coach was dead ie: lights fridge. Gfi breaker kept blowing, oil looked to not be changed, Radiator reservoir was dry. Silverleaf was giving inverter errors and kicking inverters off. They worked on the coach for the day and also on the Honda installing the tow stuff while we did the paperwork.
I asked Jay about a walkthrough at which time he gave me a story about how they were not used to country coaches and this was a very complicated coach so I probably new more than they did about the systems than they did, in other words, no walk through, figure it out for yourself!! We then had a driver drive the coach to Reno for delivery. As the electrical issues were unresolved we returned to Demartini where it was supposedly all fixed while we were at our room (on our dime) for another night. That night we were told that all was good and to show up in the morning with the Honda to hook it up for towing. When we did this there was a shower of sparks, and it turns out the 12-volt charge line was wired into my left turn signal. While this was getting fixed we noticed there was no power to right side of the coach and the fridge had kicked off again. The tech got us to shut everything down and restart which seemed to fix it. We noticed the battery voltage was 11 volts but he said the coach had been sitting around a lot and it would charge as we were driving. I had to have them fill the radiator header tank, as it had not been done.
We made it to Marysville 2 hours away before all electrical systems shut down so we ran the generator on the freeway to keep the fridge cold while we changed direction to Junction City to find someone to help us.
To shorten a long story we owe our thanks to Guaranty RV and Country Coach Tech support and all the friends we made staying in the parking lot whom pooled their resources to find our problems. They were all-awesome and squeezed us in where possible for work. All involved where shocked at some of the things that were overlooked or ignored by Demartini.
Here is what was found:
1.   AGM house batteries were cooked, 2 were 9 volts and 2 were 11 volts, there was nothing left in them but gooo, caps were falling off, and they were so warped and bloated they were wedged in the rack. I called Demartini and they said they were fine when we left the day before and had been load and voltage tested individually and passed. The connections had not been touched for years so this could not be possible. (Pictures of batteries in Marc's dead battery directory on CC forum photo section) Demartini did agree to pay $1000 of the $2400 dollar bill for new batteries as they said they could get wet cells for that price. (Replace agm with wet cell in an all-electric high-end coach, hmmmmm!!)
2.   The low voltage over time had killed the silverleaf systems monitor PCM. Fortunately silverleaf is in Eugene so we were able to troubleshoot and get the parts. What Demartini had insisted was inverter issues was actually low voltage problems.
3.   The oil filter had May 2006 written on it and the oil was like goo so we did an oil change. When I phoned Demartini they now said it had not needed an oil change so one was not done. Four-year-old filter, thick black oil, did not need an oil change, hmmmmmm!!
4.   The new batteries and pcm module seemed to smarten the electrical system up and we seemed to be winning the battle.
5.   The large slide had a separated roof (1" gap) so that was re fiberglassed and riveted.
6.   All slide topper awnings were rotten and one awning rail was ripped right off the slide. Cannot believe they did not notice this and were quite aware we had a long trip, which would encounter rain, also there was no chance of getting these repairs done where we live.
7.   Satellite receiver was not even hooked up and the one for the bedroom was still in the box. We specifically spent 250.00 couriering these down to them so they could do the installation for us! When I phoned the service manager he said there was no wiring for a receiver in the bedroom. I walked back to the cabinet and lo and behold there was a direct TV receiver mounted in the cabinet beside the TV back there. I doubt they even looked.

There were many other small things that they should have picked up on a pdi. No lights working in bathroom and that sort of thing but I have gone on long enough. I have talked to the owner, the salesman and the service manager. I got a lot of, we are very busy, selling so many coaches, and finally did get an apology from the salesman. The owner, Tim said he would get back to me and gave me a story about how they are new at the used coach market and are used to selling new Monaco's. Then he said the Coach was probably too much for their service department.
We are now in Canada, we have fixed most everything at our cost, $6000.00 later and I think we will be happy with our new to us coach. I am a retired commercial fisherman and am very handy with a multi - meter, wrench, which has probably saved our buts on this deal.
I hope anyone buying from Demartini reads this. Their business practices seem to have changed in these hard times. While we were there I heard conversations between the managers putting caps on the amount of time for a pdi on a coach. If there was more to fix after this cap was reached, the coach was sent out anyway. I did a lot of research and was convinced they had an impeccable reputation. I cannot believe the way this deal was handled with and would not wish the stress on anyone. If Jay had told us the coach was being sold (as is) which is pretty much what we got we would have looked for something else. When we left there was not even a thank you for the business, (hundreds of thousands of dollars we gave them) and after they got our money their attitude seemed to change.
Live and learn

Marc Sommer 2005 Country Coach Affinity #6429

Re: Our Story of the stressfull purchase experience from Demartini

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50300
Marc

It is shocking to hear your story and learn about how inexcusable Demartini's business practices were with your purchase. The part I am struggling with though, is how so many of the obvious coach problems escaped buyer scrutiny/verification before departure. Maybe because of being unfamiliar with the coach? I'm glad you finally got everything fixed and safely made it home. Thanks for your valuable input. I will certainly avoid Demartini in the future. Happy trails.

Larry, 03 Allure, 30856

Re: Demartini RV

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50301
This story might be worth posting in other RV foreums. Certainly any other prospective Demartini customers should be warned to be "buyer beware". Your experiences are a good lesson for all of us.

Re: Our Story of the stressfull purchase experience from Demartini

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50303

Marc, Sorry to hear your experience with Demartini, I think it is important to hold back some of the funds before you have had the PDI, it pretty much business as usual now when you release all the payment you just about got all you are going to get at that point... Good rule of thumb is to hold back an amount equal to or double the amt of work that need to be done, or put it in escrow until work is completed..
Marvin, 07 Allure 470, ISL 400, #31459

Re: Our Story of the stressfull purchase experience from Demartini

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50304
Actually most of the issues were noticed except for the slide issues as I was not aware that I should check out the slides from the top in detail. The other issues were brought to the attention of the demartini service department and we were assured they were done or they were fixed. They even told us they used 15-40 for the oil change which was never done. I guess I should have gone over each one with them to double check but due to their great reputation(we thought) when someone says it has been taken care of you would think they were being honest about it. You must also remember we drove 2 days to get there and both had the flu and were going to drive 2 days back so we were probably not as sharp as a pencil. It is also our first class a as we were 5th wheelers so a lot of the stuff is new to us.
Marc 05 affinity #6429

Re: Our Story of the stressfull purchase experience from Demartini

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50339
I don't know who did it and only suspect why, but whoever got the larger font for this medium is an angle. I can finally read the list serve now. Thank you and I hope you keep this size.

Ron Bodeen, 2001 Intrigue # 11262, San Diego, CA 619 994 0061

Re: Our Story of the stressfull purchase ... (from Forum Moderator)

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50453
As forum moderator, I thought it would be good to hear both sides of the story, to be fair and balanced.
I contacted Tim DeMartini and sent him a copy of the story. I took the liberty to edit the original message before sending it, ONLY to identify the buyer's findings by uniquely numbering them (A1-A5, B1-B6, C1-C8) to help DeMartini respond specifically to each of these 19 items and provide additional general comments.
As moderator, I would prefer that all of our forum members each reach their own conclusions, pro or con, and keep it to themselves (i.e., off-line), instead of supporting or attacking either party.
I feel that it is only fair to allow Marc and Bev a final rebuttal, if they wish.

Herb

Country-Coach-Owners
Forum Moderator

----------- DeMartini Reply follows -------------

We have noticed that there has been a large discussion involving DeMartini RV and one of our customers. We would like to clear up the situation by providing insight with the facts of this particular transaction. First of all, I am deeply disappointed that we were not able to please Mr. Sommers. Had he chosen to call us when he was within an hour of our location we would have looked for a way to accommodate and participate financially to resolve the battery issue, even though we were under no contractual obligation to do so. The reality is that we have always sold used coaches As Is. Mr. Sommers acknowledged this and he signed a document stating that the vehicle he purchased was sold As Is. Our used contract in this instance is the same as it's always been: The Customer will pay all costs for any repairs. The dealer assumes no responsibility for any repairs regardless of any oral statements about this vehicle. Our number one goal still is and always has been to provide excellent customer service and make sure all of our customers are happy. We appreciate all of the positive feedback we have received from members of this forum to help clarify this situation.
Mr. Sommers spent over three days personally inspecting every inch of the coach before taking delivery. During his inspection he had unfettered access to our service personnel.

Here are my answers to the points the Customer made in his post.

Section A: Before the Customer's Arrival
A1) Faulty Items to be fixed: Answer: All items discovered to be faulty during PDI were addressed and fixed.
A2) Full PDI: Answer: We did perform a Full PDI, the customer was here in person going through most of the coach for three days with our service techs. We told the Customer that we were to check out all systems and components of the coach. We did not assure that no problems will arise in the future nor that all defects would be restored as brand new.
A3) Oil Change: Answer: The Customer brought up to my Salesperson Jay that it was his understanding that we were going to change the oil. Jay told him for the second time that we will be checking the oil levels as we do on every coach. He also showed and gave the Customer a copy of the Work Order, where we did not promise or agree to perform an oil change. Normally an oil change is not included in our PDI since we charge extra for it.
A4) Complete Walkthrough: Answer: My salesperson Jay told the Customer that he will be given a complete walk-through of the coach as we do for all customers. Jay told me that he was going to begin the walk-through and the Customer decided he wanted to get going and voluntarily turned it down. The Customer agreed that he probably knew what they needed to know until they got to Guarantee in Oregon because they were going there for another reason anyway and he had already pre-arranged to have someone from Country Coach show him some of the things on the coach. Also, the Customer spent approximately three days walking through everything on the coach here with our service techs as they explained and showed him how to operate the technical systems on the coach. The Customer also stated a number of times that he had a large 5th wheel and large boats in the past and knows how they work and did not need instruction in a number of areas.
A5) Add-On Requests: Answer: We completed all add-ons asked of us including: Installing Winegard Traveler Satellite System, Installing the Living Room Receiver (the customer led us to believe that he would like us to leave the existing Directv receiver that was already in place in the bedroom and he would switch out the receiver with his Star Choice receiver on his own), a full tow set-up for his Honda Element, and an M & G brake system.
Tow Vehicle: Answer: The reason behind the wrong base plate was actually a vendor error, and the vendors response was that the correct one was two weeks away. Before we even had the opportunity to respond and order the correct baseplate from another source the Customer took it upon himself to research and find the necessary parts.
Section B: While the Customer was at our Location for his initial inspection.
B1) Batteries were dead: Answer: When the customer arrived the batteries were low on charge so we charged each one of them individually for 2 days. According to our service tech, Steve, each battery was charged individually for a few days and levels all came up to 13.6 on the test meter when they were connected.
B2) All power to right side of coach was dead: Answer: We fixed this problem during PDI before the customer took delivery of the coach.
B3) GFI breaker kept blowing: Answer: We fixed this problem during PDI before the customer took delivery of the coach. The problem originated from an outlet in the storage bay that had a dead line that was tripping the GFI breaker, the customer agreed that he would like to eliminate the dead line because he wouldn't be using that outlet since there was already another working outlet in the storage bay.
B4) Oil wasn't changed: Answer: We never promised or agreed to perform an oil change as part of the deal. We did check the oil levels as we do with all coaches and they were found to be okay. Oil changes are normally at an extra charge and would have been on a signed work order if it was clear that he wanted us to perform it on the coach.
B5) Radiator Reservoir Dry: Answer: The Customer pointed out that he thought that the radiator reservoir appeared to be dry. At his request he inspected it further and determined that the reservoir did not need to be filled. There was a shadow stain that made it appear to look empty when it was actually full.
B6) Silverleaf was giving inverter errors: Answer: Everything involving the Silverleaf system was fixed and in working order by the time the coach left our location. The customer even went through the entire system and verified it was in working order himself.
The Customer's claim that the 12V charge line was wired into his left turn signal on his Honda tow vehicle is completely false. My service tech, Steve, says that he double checked that the 12V was connected correctly on the plug in adapter.

Section C: After the Customer went to Guarantee RV.
C1) "AGM House Batteries were cooked, nothing left in them but goo, caps falling off?" Answer: First of all, AGM batteries are not serviceable and state on them "Do Not Remove Caps." It is obvious that the customer removed the caps from his statement claiming that "there was nothing left in them but goo" of course there was "goo" in them because AGM batteries are gel cell batteries and are filled with a gel or "goo" like substance. He shouldn't have taken the caps off the batteries as he could have potentially caused damage to the batteries himself by removing the caps. The Customer may have thought that the connections weren't touched for years because Steve sprayed colored terminal protector on them after testing which may have made them appear as if they had not been touched. As the coach left our location, the batteries appeared to be in good condition. After he left, the customer put a heavy load on the batteries by running the large inverter and residential refrigerator on his way down the road. He claimed that he discovered the Refrigerator to be running inadequately while under this high amp load as he arrived in Marysville, CA which is less than an hour from our location. We never heard from him until he reached Oregon which is 10 hours away from our location. If he would have called us in Marysville, and came back we would have been happy to split the cost for 4 brand new AGM Batteries. The batteries cost us $436 each and so we thought it would be fair to split the cost of the brand new batteries since this was not a brand new coach. It's unfortunate that Mr. Sommers paid $2400; we would have cost him a net of $720 for us to install if he would have driven less than an hour back to our location when he was in Marysville, CA. Instead he chose to drive about 10 hours to Guarantee RV in Junction City, OR. Even though he didn't come back to our location, we still reimbursed Mr. Sommers $1000 toward the brand new AGM batteries.
C2) Low voltage had killed the silverleaf systems, not inverter issues: Answer: We never claimed that inverter issues were causing problems with the silverleaf system. It is entirely possible that low voltage caused the problems with the monitor PCM. There are a number of things that could've caused this since he left our location, ranging from plugging in at a low voltage campground or even low batteries or maybe a wire rattling loose along the way.
C3) No Oil Change: Answer: We never agreed to perform an oil change and if we had it would have been an extra charge. Oil levels were checked and they were adequate. Oil changes are not a part of our normal PDI and we would have gladly done it for this customer at an extra charge if he had clearly asked.
C4) "New Batteries?smartened electrical system" Answer: The batteries were up and systems were operating while the customer was at our location in the shop inspecting the coach with the techs. His trouble with the PCM module could have been caused after the customer left our location.
C5) Large Slide had separated roof: Answer: None of our service Techs noticed this problem. This is not a normal item looked at in PDI, so it was not noted in inspection by us or the customer who personally inspected the coach for three days with a fine tooth comb. It sounds like this may have been a factory defect which isn't covered on a used coach which are sold as is.
C6) All slide topper awnings were rotten: Answer: We don't guarantee that any awning fabric is to be brand new condition on a used 2005 coach. We also didn't inspect the awning fabric because the Customer had all of the awnings out and inspected them himself for three days before taking delivery and was satisfied while he was here.
C7) Satellite receiver was not hooked up: Answer: We did, in fact, install the satellite receiver he mailed to us for the living room TV. The customer was in the coach with our service techs and saw that there was already a DirecTV receiver in the bedroom. The customer led our service tech to believe that he would handle installing his bedroom receiver on his own since there was already a receiver in the bedroom.
C8) Many other small things that should have been picked up on pdi, no lights working in bathroom etc. Answer: The Customer actually spent time in the bathroom with our service techs while the coach was in the shop. The shop is dark inside, especially inside an RV in the bathroom area so all of the lights were on and working while he was in there. Light bulbs do burn out and most likely it either did that or could have even come loose during his 500 mile drive to Oregon.
The story the Customer states about his conversation with me, Tim DeMartini, actually occurred before he took delivery of the coach. He sounds like he either misunderstood me or twisted around my words. I told him that we were not interested in selling him this coach if he was intending on us completly restoring it to new condition. It was a used 2005 coach and not a brand new coach. We sold him the coach over $60,000 below wholesale book and he seemed to expect it to be the same as a brand new $700,000 Country Coach so I offered to give him his deposit money back if that is what he was expecting. I did not say we were new at the used coach market, I said that we cannot make a used coach into a new one. I ended up telling him that I would install his Canadian standard $5000 front seats and required exterior lighting should he go through with the deal.
We do not have any caps on the amount of time put into a PDI. The Customer was here for approximately 3 days continually involved directing and attempting to direct all work being done to the coach. The customer saw the PDI first hand as he was involved in it himself for three days.
I hope that anyone reading this will look at the thousands of happy customers and positive feedback we have received over the past years as evidence that we are an honest dealership that works hard to please our customers. We did not do anything to treat this Customer poorly, and I am sorry that we were not able to meet Mr. Sommers expectations. We know that keeping the Customer happy is what keeps our dealership alive. I still believe that the coach was in excellent condition and I would be happy to talk to Mr. Sommers about purchasing the coach back from him if he is not entirely satisfied with it. We appreciate all of the Customer's comments on this forum because it has helped us to discover his unhappiness, we only wish that he had come to us first and given us the opportunity to respond to his concerns.

Sincerely,

Tim DeMartini

Re: Our Story of the stressfull purchase ... (from Forum Moderator)

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50467
Without a doubt, this is the most professional approach to such a situation. Thanks Herb.
Mike

Our Story of the stressfull purchase experience from Demartini RV

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50364
It's too bad the original poster had such an unpleasant experience with his used motor home purchase. However, I think we should not be so quick to damn DeMartini because of a single report of problems. First, DeMartini has had a fine reputation for a long time and one bad experience could have a number of explanations. Second, while reading the poster's description, it sounds like a number of things could have been handled differently by both parties to this transaction. Finally, anyone interested in a DeMartini coach who is uncomfortable because of this poster's report should ask DeMartini to give their side of the story, not just walk away assuming the entire incident is one-sided.
I bought a used coach from DeMartini less than a year ago and had a quite different experience. They did the pre-sale work we agreed upon, when I returned a couple of months later for the install of a tow setup virtually identical to this poster's rig, they installed in properly and on-time. They provided me with free use of their campground facility for as long as I needed. My salesman was also Jay and he did a competent and thorough job of explaining all the systems on my new (used) coach. I didn't post anything about this experience because it went well and there was nothing more to say. Remember, we mostly hear the bad news on Internet chat sites...
However, even dealing with a reputable dealer it is always "buyer beware." Never make a "final payment" prior to being fully satisfied with the coach and the work done thereon. Get everything in writing and hold the seller to the terms of the contract. Etc.

JMHO
Bill

Re: Our Story of the stressfull purchase experience from Demartini

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50366

I have read all the post here on this subject, and just purchasing a new to me coach I can understand the OP's position, there are a few things that you take for granted. What I can't understand was the batteries dead, had to jump start and the excuse was that it had been setting around for a while and then the oil change that never happened.
It would be quiet interesting to know whom actually owned this coach at the time of sale, was it still owned by the bank? So what i am saying is who was footing the bill for the corrective work? Looks like they were just trying to get it off thier lot...
Lot of questions left unanswered.. JMO Marvin, 07 Allure 470 #31459


From: W. O. Ward To: Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 12:49:21 PM Subject: [Country-Coach-Owners] Re:Our Story of the stressfull purchase experience from Demartini RV

It's too bad the original poster had such an unpleasant experience with his used motor home purchase. However, I think we should not be so quick to damn DeMartini because of a single report of problems. First, DeMartini has had a fine reputation for a long time and one bad experience could have a number of explanations. Second, while reading the poster's description, it sounds like a number of things could have been handled differently by both parties to this transaction. Finally, anyone interested in a DeMartini coach who is uncomfortable because of this poster's report should ask DeMartini to give their side of the story, not just walk away assuming the entire incident is one-sided.
I bought a used coach from DeMartini less than a year ago and had a quite different experience. They did the pre-sale work we agreed upon, when I returned a couple of months later for the install of a tow setup virtually identical to this poster's rig, they installed in properly and on-time. They provided me with free use of their campground facility for as long as I needed. My salesman was also Jay and he did a competent and thorough job of explaining all the systems on my new (used) coach. I didn't post anything about this experience because it went well and there was nothing more to say. Remember, we mostly hear the bad news on Internet chat sites...
However, even dealing with a reputable dealer it is always "buyer beware."? Never make a "final payment"? prior to being fully satisfied with the coach and the work done thereon. Get everything in writing and hold the seller to the terms of the contract. Etc.

JMHO
Bill

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Re: Our Story of the stressfull purchase experience from Demartini

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50367
It would be good if you post your coach model and number or if it is an sob post that info, please.
Hollick 07 Affinity 6767

Re: Our Story of the stressfull purchase experience from Demartini

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50380

Bill, as a small business person one can do a thousand things right and screw up once, there's goes your name. Personally I strive for excelence 100% of the time, 1 upset customer is not accepable, after reading their experience I hope their out of business in a year, for most of us were talking major $$$$ here, let someone else take over the slack which hopefully would not find their situation acceptable as well.
My business is technology based, which is pennies on the dollor by comparision and cannot imagine putting anyone though such experience.
Facts... they purchased a big $$$$ product from a dealer which things were not right, if the dealer bought this rig without checking it over it's their liability not the buyer, sometimes you need to eat the costs of a bad deal while in business, never sticking it to the customer, bad move Demartini.
Wondering how you would post if the shoe was on the other foot, thinking your likely affiliated with the Demartini organization, maybe your name is really Jay.

Mike 06 51795

Our Story of the stressfull purchase experience from Demartini RV

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50384
Sorry I overlooked that - here's my info:

Bill Ward

2008 Monaco Diplomat
Looking for a 36' CC

Our Story of the stressfull purchase experience from Demartini

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 50383
No Mike, my name is "Bill" just like I wrote it and I have no affiliation with DeMartini other than as a satisfied customer. I'm not even defending DeMartini in this situation, only suggesting that there are undoubtedly two sides to the story. I, too, spent my life as a small businessman and know how a business reputation can be damaged by unfounded reports of misbehavior, whether or not they are deserved. I truly believe there are usually two sides to most of these stories. A big problem with Internet dialogues is that, first, we almost always hear about the bad stuff but seldom about the good and second, a few people are so negative that they are willing to accept any story at face value and support the slander of someone's reputation without even considering there might be another take on the situation. And then, of course, there are the conspiracy theorists like yourself who assume that anyone who might take an opposing position must be a troll hiding under a false name.

Sorry for your paranoia Mike.
Bill