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Our Liability???? Over Weight Coaches!!!!

Yahoo Message Number: 3510
Does anyone know if we as buyers have added liability if our coach is in a accident and it is over loaded? Two cases.
1. We buy a coach with reasonable capacity and we grossly over load it and fail to stop and hit a scool bus. Maybe we have a Toad without brakes that weights 2500 pounds and we have overloaded storage areas.
2. We buy a coach that has no or little capacity as built (example
Newell 4 slide with 860 pounds total capacity, over loaded front axle, over loaded main axle, an 860 pound capacity over the tag. This is as built empty no passengers, tools, clothes, etc). We load this Newell with 3 or 4000 pounds of liquid and stuff maybe 1000 of it is tongue weight of a tag trailer with proper trailer brakes. Then we hit a school bus. As a user we have added nothing, but normal supplies and liquids to the Newell, but we are just as overweight as the first example.

I know if this was a over the road truck that was overloaded we would have many problems and our insurance may not support or defend us. Is there another law for the RV user? Does it make a difference who caused the over load? If I buy that new Newell, knowing there is no way I can go down the road and not be overloaded am i accepting some additional libality? I think we (as a group)need to make a big issue about manfactures and converters building over weight coaches, especially if we are going to be faced with additional libality or unsafe conditions. Lets hear from a large audience on this one, i think it should be important to everyone.
John D. 2002 Royale

Re: Our Liability???? Over Weight Coaches!!!!

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3512
John, you're asking for legal advice which any attorney worth his/her salt is not going to give by e-mail. That said, I believe the only way to be safe is to weigh your coach and then don't exceed the specified weights per axle.

Walt Rothermel
2003Allure30811

Re: Our Liability???? Over Weight Coaches!!!!

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3513
Walt,

I think that is the problem. If the coach i buy cannot be used without being overloaded am i taking a risk buying it? Just about every brand has several models that will be overloaded if the owner uses it as advertised. If you look at the tests in some of the RV magazines and read between the lines you will see many, maybe more than 50% cannot be used as sold without being overloaded. Since so many coaches are overloaded and so many are sold with very little carring capacity as used are we exposing ourselves to added libality buying these coaches. Simple test go on a factory website and look at the specs, add the weights for black, and gray water, add 1500 pounds for your stuff more or less add the weight of driver and passengers, maybe add trailer tongue weight if you plan on towing something with tongue weight and see where you are. 1500 pounds for clothes, books, magazines, groceries, tools, spare parts, pop, beer, etc is very light for me, but might work for some. Waste water is around 9 pounds per gallon, propane is 6.7 or ? I think, diesel is? Just about every coach i have looked at is overloaded. The Newell 4 slide was going to be 4 or 5000 pounds over, since it was over on the front and main axles as built. I think this is a very important issue, if you assume any new coach you are considering has plenty of capacity without doing the numbers you may be surprised when you do add it all up.
Some where out there some one will tell why this is or isnot a big deal.

PS on another site there was a post telling about a newer CC prevost double slide that blew a tire and rolled over. CC rerated their front axles by putting on bigger tires that were rated at 55 mph or less.
CC used these tires to get higher ratings, so for this guy this loading or overweight thing is a very big issue.
John D. 2002 Royale.

Re: Our Liability???? Over Weight Coaches!!!!

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3514
I understand that Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison of Texas is currently investigating proposed federal safety standards for RV manufacturers. This could be a blessing or a curse, depending on who screams loudest. You might contact her office for more info and/or comment.

Dave Hills

2000 Allure 36' #30444

"john d. " wrote:

Re: Our Liability???? Over Weight Coaches!!!!

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3515
I don't know of any manufacturer that says you can drive with holding tanks full and I know the gasoline coach manufacturers tell you not to run with water in your tank. When you get a six point weigh you do it with empty holding tanks although we all run with something in these tanks, however it is a good policy to try to run with these empty. It would be pretty tough to over load the tires on our Magna but we could easly exceed our chassie limits so we all need to load accordingly.

bill G. 2001 Magna 5998

Re: Our Liability???? Over Weight Coaches!!!!

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3516
I have never heard of an issue with running with water in the tank or holding tanks from any manufacturer. As a matter of fact, our previous coach (gas) handled much better with the water tank full. Four or six-point weighing should be done with the water, propane and fuel tanks full, and good idea to have some in the holding tanks. You want to know the total loaded weight to see if you may run into an overweight situation. Our coach is right at maximum on the front axle, so I would not be so quick to say our tires can not be overloaded.
Per Korslund
Affinity 5259

gablerwh@... wrote:

Re: Our Liability???? Over Weight Coaches!!!!

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3517
Quote
I don't know of any manufacturer that says you can drive with
holding tanks full and I know the gasoline coach manufacturers tell you not to run with water in your tank. When you get a six point weigh you do it with empty holding tanks although we all run with something in these tanks,

Sorry but we have a Country Coach Prevost 40 conversion. We run with full fuel, 200 gallons, and full fresh water,160+ gallons, and leave with empty holding tanks (except for a couple of gallons of slosh).
When I have done the 6 point weight I did it with everything that we would use and have when travelling including my wife. Why bother to 6 point weigh otherwise. We are legal on all wheels and axles and there is room to buy souvenirs.

Bill-PA-Country Coach Prevost 40'XL 1998

Re: Our Liability???? Over Weight Coaches!!!!

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3520
Bill,

I thought the whole idea of being self contained, and the whole concept behind a motorhome, and the whole reason for owning one of these things is to be free. If I have no liquids I might as well have a trailer. We travel in our coach, without the liquids, toliet, shower, etc I might as well drive the car.
John D. 02 Royale 170 gallons fresh and 170 sewer, and i would like more black.

Re: Our Liability???? Over Weight Coaches!!!!

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3523
This is one pet peeve of the RV Consumer Group and is one reason we bought our particular Country Coach. WITH the tanks and all our gear we are within our limits. From what I understand, if you are in an accident, one of the first things that will be done is your coach will be weighed. If overweight, YOU are at fault.
As a consumer it is up to us to best determine the specs of a rig and to not buy ones that are patently not going to haul our stuff. Buyer Beware.

Yes, this is an important issue. I see many rigs going down the road that are obviously overweight, no matter what is causing it. They should be pulled off the road. They are a hazard to my safety too. I welcome required weighing at truck weigh places, etc. That would help clean up the bad manufacturers..or at least make them honest with the consumer.
My two cents...
Jan McNeill
Intrigue 11320

Re: Our Liability???? Over Weight Coaches!!!!

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3527
Jan,

I do not think I have noticed the rigs on the road (overloaded), but I know they have to be out there. In the motor home publications the last three featured coaches a class C, a gas class A and the 4 slide Newell all do or will have overload issues. The Class C was under 500 wet without passengers, supplies, clothes, food, or holding tank liquids. The gas class A was under 900 pounds and had a large basement area, and the Newell at 860 with all capacity on the tag was the worst. RV shoppers who read the reviews of these three coaches will not read a negative word by the reviewer. Some how they find no duty to the public to open up on these issues. I hope readers of these reviews know these are bought and paid for endorsments and there is little chance they will tell the readers about any faults.
Trouble is many who read these magazines will make their purchase decisions based on these or similar reviews. If you buy any of those three coaches you will not be legal when loaded.
John D. 02 Royale

Quote from: janmcneill\[br\
"]
This is one pet peeve of the RV Consumer Group and is one reason we > bought our particular Country Coach. WITH the tanks and all our

gear

Quote
we are within our limits. From what I understand, if you are in an > accident, one of the first things that will be done is your coach > will be weighed. If overweight, YOU are at fault.
As a consumer it is up to us to best determine the specs of a rig

and

Quote
to not buy ones that are patently not going to haul our stuff. Buyer > Beware.

Yes, this is an important issue. I see many rigs going down the road > that are obviously overweight, no matter what is causing it. They > should be pulled off the road. They are a hazard to my safety too. I > welcome required weighing at truck weigh places, etc. That would > help clean up the bad manufacturers..or at least make them honest

with

Re: Our Liability???? Over Weight Coaches!!!!

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3528
I am not surprised that a dealer would advise not to operate with water tank full. Doesn't he have a responsibility to not represent the unsafe operation of the coach? Otherwise, I would think some of the liability could come back on him in some rare cases. However, the owner/operator has the ultimate responsibility and any big insurance company will use that as a wedge to keep from having to pay a claim that will affect their bottom line.

Until we as consumers start educating ourselves before we close a deal on a coach, many dealers and manufacturers will continue to play the shell game. Each time a slide is added to a design, it adds weight. Don't get me wrong, I like the slides. Just not three and four of them. If you buy a coach with three and four slides, you are going to give up something on most coaches manufactured today. That is one of the reasons I stuck with buying an older coach with only one slide. I wanted capacity for my stuff. With a full tank of water, fuel, propane and all my stuff I like to travel with, my wife and I have weight capacity to spare.

Jim Hughes

Jacksonville, FL
2000 Allure #30511

Re: Our Liability???? Over Weight Coaches!!!!

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3530
"From what I understand, if you are in an accident, one of the first things that will be done is your coach will be weighed. If overweight, YOU are at fault.
What do you base this on? I have never heard of this. Do you have exampes of court cases where this was done, or do you simply base this on hearsay you heard in a bar? Per Korslund
Affinity 5259

"janmcneill " wrote:

Re: Our Liability???? Over Weight Coaches!!!!

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3532
Quote

What do you base this on? I have never heard of this. Do you have
exampes of court cases where this was done, or do you simply base this on hearsay you heard in a bar?

Quote
>

Per Korslund

Affinity 5259

Per...I'm sorry, I can't quote where I got that info...over a year
ago on one of the forums or in info on one of the sites and I can't verify it either. It stuck in my mind as quite important though. It definitely sounds like the truth to me....if someone is overloaded, they risk not being able to control their rig as well as someone who is not. If I'm in an accident, I would expect my insurance company to do that as basic research, though, wouldn't you? Jan McNeill
Intrigue 11320

Re: Our Liability???? Over Weight Coaches!!!!

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3543
John,

What you are saying is why so many coaches on the road are over loaded. We carry a full water tank and some waste but not everyone can do that. Coaches can only carry so much and thats why everyone need to be weighted and adjust accordingly.

We have elected not to carry lots of personal stuff so we can run with our tanks full but if you read the fine print from any manufacturer you will find that they talk about running empty. They also talk about not running with your frig. on propane, how many of us do that? we don't.

Bill G. 2001 Magna 5998

Re: Our Liability???? Over Weight Coaches!!!!

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3545
Bill,

I will have to read my owners manual and see what they say about tanks. I have all electric coach so no Propane. I try to start every trip with black and gray empty, and fresh full. Several times I have been unable to dump, but I have found fresh water. So I need a coach that can run with all tanks full, I know some don't do this, but in my case i think i need it. If I could I would have 300 gallons of fresh and 300 black and gray combined, I now have 175 each. I would like being able to go for 10 or 12 days without dumping, now I can make it about 6 or 7. I have a Head Hunter toilet and it seems to use a lot of water even on the low setting, but it sure does agreat job.
Head Hunter needs 60 psi to flush. thanks for comments.
John D. 02 Royale