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cummins engine

Yahoo Message Number: 3776
I called cummins (1 800 769 3778) on the Question about wheather to start engine when you sit for a long time - Ron Smith at Cummins said to run engine for 30 minutes once a month - did not have to drive it-

Stan and Joni fulltiming
Intrigue #11556

Re: cummins engine

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3779
I don't like it. I can't argue with an 'expert' from the manufacturer but this does not address the balance of the drive train..... transmission, drive shaft, differential, etc., as well as the suspension, steering and all the rest.

But, then, opinions are like belly buttons..... every one has one.

Dick May

2002 Intrigue, #11438
Dick May
2002 Intrigue, #11438, towing a
2014 Jeep Gr Cherokee ecoDiesel

Re: cummins engine

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3798
I do not like it either! I am very hard of hearing so do not be offended if I ask if you (Stan) heard John Smith correctly??? I have received many emails from Cummins and also literature and they all have stated that just idling ones engine is BAADDD! True if idling for 30 minutes you will probably bring the engine temp up to normal range but as Dick May says you will be neglecting all other components. I have heard that the air brake release knob sometimes gets frozen from nonuse! A question: temps here in western Mass have been in the single digits for the past 2 weeks with below zero at night...My Allure would not turn over today...If I can rig up an extention cord at the field where I park how long do I need to plug in to the engine warmer outlet? How do I know when the oil has been warmed up enough? In my CC manuals it says not to use the generator as the power source for this extention cord and I wonder why not?

On Wed, 22 Jan 2003 10:56:52 -0500 "MayMR" maymr@...> writes:

Re: cummins engine

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3799
Quote from: rvmike@j\.\.\.
A question: temps here in western Mass have been in the single
digits for the past 2 weeks with below zero at night...My Allure would not turn over today...If I can rig up an extention cord at the field where I park

How long do I need to plug in to the engine warmer outlet? How do I know when the oil has been warmed up enough? In my CC manuals it says not to use the generator as the power source for this extention cord and I wonder why not?
------------

I am assuming that you have an engine block heater when you say "to plug into the engine warmer outlet?". A few days ago when the outside temperature got down to 9 - 10 degrees, I turned my engine block heater on and recorded the temperature increases of the engine, transmission and manifold (intake) from the "Trip Tek" system that is read off the rear view monitor of my coach. If you key on the "FILES" section that you see in the yellow section on the left of this page and go to the "folder" file "Cold Start-Up" and enter that folder and key on the DSblock2 file you can see the data of engine temp increases and a graph below the table. It is a Microsoft Excel file so you will need to have EXCEL on your computer.

Look it over and see if it will give you any help.

Fred

Re: cummins engine

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3800
If you can start the generator, why not do so? Running the generator will exercise it, you will charge up the coach batteries, and you can run the engine heater directly! Everything I have seen and heard also says it it is bad for an engine to warm up just idling. If you can take it out on the road for at least half an hour, that would be best! Per Korslund, Affinity 5259
rvmike@... wrote:

Re: cummins engine

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3801
A couple of questions:

I don't remember what year Allure you have. Do you have hydronic heat? If so, and it's set to keep you plumbing bay from freezing, then you engine (at least mine does) should stay warm enough to start without using the block heater.

Did your engine fail to turn over because the battery was too depleted since you are not plugged in?

Did you try to start with the battery merge switch held on?
I have wondered why CC advises not to use the gen for the block heater but never asked (I don't usually need it in Georgia). Hopefully someone will have asked and share the answer with us.

Dick May

2002 Intrigue, #11438
Dick May
2002 Intrigue, #11438, towing a
2014 Jeep Gr Cherokee ecoDiesel

Re: cummins engine

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3806
Stanley,

You got an answer from an engine guy. Since your RV consists of more than the engine, there are other components that should be considered.

Personally, I find the response you got short-sighted, particularly in view of the complaints about stuck Pacbrakes. Of course, the Pacbrake isn't a Cummins product.

If you have the pre-luber in your ISC, you won't subject your engine to the severe start-up wear when you turn it on after a long time. That's good. But when you don't move your coach you're not distributung, or re-distributing fluids, and you're not using parts that should be used frequently to guarantee they remain functional for a long time.
From the perspective of "engine only", the response from the Cummins service rep makes sense. From the perspective of "whole drivetrain and accessories" I disagree.

I wish you many happy miles with your CC.
Jeff

"stanley20002152 rejonna@...>" wrote: about wheather to start engine when you sit for a long time - Ron Smith at Cummins said to run engine for 30 minutes once a month - did not have to drive it- >>

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Re: cummins engine

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3808
rvmike@... wrote:

Quote
A question: temps here in western Mass have been in > the single digits

for the past 2 weeks with below zero at night...My > Allure would not turn
over today...

Mike,

in this @#$%^& severe weather, I would let the RV rest. True, it should be exercised and run around the track every so often but if you skip a week, or even two given the unusually cold winter we have, your RV will surely survive the rest period. Running the RV with cold transm. fluid and heting up the interior just to let it cool down again an hour later doesn't make much sense to me. I would not have given this answer last year when we had a much milder winter, but this year is just extreme.

Quote
In my CC

manuals it says not to

use the generator as the power source for this > extention cord and I
wonder why not?
I'm not sure I understand. Where do you want to plug the cord in ? Do you have an outlet directly on your generator ?

Extension cords come in various strengths. You want one that is capable of withstanding the amperage you draw for extended periods of time. I have a long ext. cord that my father-in-law used to power some Christmas lights. I wouldn't use that cord when I take my electric chain saw into the woods. I need much stronger gauge wires for the saw. I suspect the same applies to your cord and your generator but I'm not sure that's what you meant.

Regards,
Jeff

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Re: cummins engine

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3809
Hi Jeff. Yes, I agree with you and am waiting for the thaw to come...It is supposed to go up to the low 20's on Sunday and while that will seem like a heat wave I will wait even longer.
In regards the extension cord/generator/block heater issue CC manuals state not to use the genset as the power source for the block heater (period). That makes it difficult for me as I park on a field and even if the owner will let me use his ac power I will need about 200ft of cord!!! The gauge of the cord will sure matter then.
Hopefully it will warm up soon (above freezing will be fine) and all will be back to normal.

On Thu, 23 Jan 2003 12:30:47 -0800 (PST) Jeff F rv_jeff@...> writes:

Re: cummins engine

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3810
Somewhere in the manuals provided by CC (perhaps under block heater) it says to NOT use the generator power to run an extention cord to the block heater...My manuals are in the coach so are not handy now but that message struck home. Anyone know why they state that?
On Thu, 23 Jan 2003 05:05:05 -0800 (PST) PER KORSLUND peralko@...> writes:

Re: cummins engine

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3814
Hi Dick. My Allure is a 2000 #30493. No, I do not have hydronic heat.
Yes, the house batteries were depleted and I feel certain that there is a leak in the system. Battery volts are going down too quickly. I did have a solar collector added and I need to find out if they attached a diode to prevent back flow. My knowledge of multimeters is not too good though and besides it is much too cold outside right now. I did get my genset working though and voltages did increase but I decided not to try starting the engine again as I was not prepared to take a drive. Anyone have ideas as to how to test for voltage leaks? I do keep my battery disconnect switches off and TV's are unplugged to prevent those phantom loads. The ECM is always on but that should be taking juice from the engine battery. These CC's are so complicated though that there are probably other phantom loads. Any ideas out there? On Thu, 23 Jan 2003 08:13:30 -0500 "MayMR" maymr@...> writes:

Re: cummins engine

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3818
Bonus to the hydronic heat.... my engine temp has not been below 40 or so. I do not winterize. I want the coach to be ready to go when I am and it's seldom needed in Georgia.

For those who have followed the dialog on exercise or not..... I forgot one thing. Tires! Everyone says that tires suffer if left idle without shading form UV and protected from moisture. "They" say that driving keeps the chemicals flowing and protects the rubber from dry rot. Just another reason for a periodic drive.

Dick May

2002 Intrigue, #11438
Dick May
2002 Intrigue, #11438, towing a
2014 Jeep Gr Cherokee ecoDiesel

Re: cummins engine

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3824
Does the Intrigue/Allure not have a switch on the dash to turn on the engine block heater? If it does, why would you need an extension cord for the block heater? Per Korslund, Affinity 5259
rvmike@... wrote:

Periodic Engine Warming

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3828
My take on warming up engines without a load has always been based on the belief that idiling engines have internal "slap" within the cylinders and the cranksaft bearings "chatter" when cold.
Additionally, it is my perception that cold engines create alot more contamination of the oil because condensation is present and the engine is not sealed (especially the cylinder walls when cold). There is a big misperception among vehicle owners that the primary function of engine oil is lubrication. Technicially this is not so --- the function is cooling. It is there to prevent the engine from burning up from heat, not friction (please don't jump me for not stating that the heat is caused by friction --- it is caused by combustion -- if is there was enough friction to cause much heat the engine would seize!!)

The literature that I have read indicates that we can start them up, wait until the air pressure comes up, then put them in gear and drive slowly until the temp gauge moves (to me this is usually the time it takes to chug down to the freeway.)

At some level the discussion is probably moot, the engines in our coaches are designed for the most extreme commercial use imagineable.
Have you ever read the cold weather operating specs in the Cummins manual??? I am waiting to hear about a Cummins 8.3 being worn out by motorhome use. I do not know about you guys, byt the calendar is working against the probability of us putting 500,000 miles on our Intrigue.

Additionally, how could it cause the finest quality steel components to be damaged by sitting idle for a few weeks/months. I will concede that the oil may run off to some degree, but is seems logical that repeated cold starting will just cause more wear. I vote for waiting for the weather to warm up to start it!!

WHY NOT LET IT SIT UNTIL WE ARE GOING TO GO ON A TRIP, THEN PLUG IN THE BLOCK HEATER FOR 8 HOURS TO WARM UP THE OIL???

As far as the batteries and charging system, the inverters have a "stand-by" mode which uses amps. It can deplete the batteries over time. The inverter can be shut off, but the use of a trickle charger is proably the best way to go. The sophisticated electrical managment system the CC uses makes it impossible to do any damage with they kind of unit availlable a Pep Boys. I have my until in a storage facility what provides two hours of 20 amp (rotational) power a day.
It is just marginally adequate for my 2000 Intrigue (my unit has been upgraded to huge deep cell Trojan batteries, about 20 inches high).

After reading all of the literature that I can get my hands on, it seems that battery life is a fuction of the number of discharges and recharges. I may be missing something, but why let them discharge if we can avoid it?

Chuck Gauthier

2000 Intrigue 11142
La Quinta, CA

Teeing off at 10:07 on the Stadium Course at PGA West, forecast is for light scattered clouds and 81 degrees (cruel HUH???)

Re: cummins engine

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3831
Per Korslund, Affinity 5259,

On my Intrigue, and I'm guessing all Intigues & Allures, you have to plug the block heater in with an extention cord. The plug in is in the service compartment. I take it by your post that on an Affinity you just flip a dash switch if you are plugged in....Steve Intigue #10673

Re: cummins engine

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3833
Steve,

That is correct. The switch will work on AC from shore power or the generator. If I'm in a cold location and need to leave in the morning, I'll turn the switch on, take the dogs for their walk, take my morning bath, and by that time the engine is warm.
Per.........Affinity 5259

"rheavn " wrote:

Re: cummins engine

Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3834
My Allure has a Block Heater switch. I think it is located in the bedroom.
Tom Royer

2003 Allure 30858

Quote from: rheavn\[br\
"]
Per Korslund, Affinity 5259,

On my Intrigue, and I'm guessing all Intigues & Allures, you

have

Quote
to plug the block heater in with an extention cord. The plug in

is in

Quote
the service compartment. I take it by your post that on an

Affinity

Re: cummins engine

Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3837
rvmike@... wrote: heater issue CC manuals state not to use the genset as the power source for the block heater (period). That makes it difficult for me as I park on a field and even

if the owner will let me use his ac power I will need about 200ft of cord!!! The gauge of the cord will sure matter then. >>

What if you run the generator, turn on the inverter and plug the engine heater into a 110V outlet in the coach ? The gen. would charge the batteries while the inverter draws from them to heat the engine.

If anybody thinks this is not a workable solution, please explain why.

Of course, running your generator for several weeks, maybe even months is going to make heating quite expensive. If you're not going to use the coach, winterize. Even if you pay 60 bucks (or whatever the going rate is) to the RV shop so that they put their "best winterization man" on the job, you spend less than you would pay for the diesel you'd have to burn to run the generator.

This is a tough winter. I spend more in electricity this winter than in any other year because I did not winterize.

Good luck to all of us.
Jeff

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Re: cummins engine

Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3841
No Per, at least on my Allure 30493 there is no switch on the dash to turn on the block heater. There is an outlet in the rear bay on the pass. side which will take an extension cord. I guess that is one of the reasons why our Allure's are so cheap...
On Fri, 24 Jan 2003 05:29:05 -0800 (PST) PER KORSLUND peralko@...> writes:

Re: Periodic Engine Warming

Reply #20 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3843
Hey Chuck you certainly are a CRUEL fellow!!! Why are you hitting the little white ball when you can be out taking a drive??? It is 5 degrees here in the Berkshires of Mass. and quite windy too. We are supposed to receive a reprieve on Sunday with temps hitting the 20's! Swimming anyone?

With all the salt on the roads I agree to just let the Allure sit and await better conditions.

I will turn off the Inverter at the power box in the rear bedroom and see if that helps the batteries from draining. Of course one has to remember to turn the switch back ON when starting the engine or using the Genset because the battery charger will not work otherwise (don't laugh...I forgot that once...)

Why the batteries are discharging is what I am trying to investigate.
Even turning off the disconnect switches has not prevented discharging.
I will now try disengaging the Inverter too and see if that helps. Any other suggestions?

On Fri, 24 Jan 2003 15:50:03 -0000 "intrigue11142 AP14thPGAWEST@...>" AP14thPGAWEST@...> writes:

Re: cummins engine

Reply #21 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3848
Mine has a block heater switch in the bedroom on the same panel as the light switch and generator switch. I don't EVER plan on being where I need it.
Just head south!

Ree

Full-timin' in a 2003 Allure 30852
Currently at www.eldoradoranch.com on the Baja near www.sanfelipe.com.mx

Re: cummins engine

Reply #22 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3890
For Stan and Joe Fulltiming, Intrigue #11556.
The probable reason the Cummins "Man" said to only start and run the engine once a month and that one did not have to drive it, is that he is an engine man, and couldn't care less about the transmission, chassis, air bags, wheel bearings etc, etc, etc. Coming from a background of military maintenance on vehicles as well as equipments, and having no ax to grind or employer to satisfy, I myself prefer to, and highly recommend, that a 30 minute drive under load be conducted at least monthly.
I have read and been told that a 30 minute idle of a diesel engine is probably going to do as much harm as it does good to the engine.

Ron and Molly '01 Intrigue #11262 san diego

Re: cummins engine

Reply #23 –
Yahoo Message Number: 3895
Quote from: Bodie6413@a\.\.\.
For Stan and Joe Fulltiming, Intrigue #11556.

The probable reason the Cummins "Man" said to only start and run

the engine

Quote
once a month and that one did not have to drive it, is that he is

an engine

Quote
man, and couldn't care less about the transmission, chassis, air

bags, wheel

Quote
bearings etc, etc, etc. .......................
My Gillig manual says

"To protect seals, bearings, and gaskets, the motorhome must be driven at least 20 miles bimonthly (every 2 months). If driven less the seals, bearings, and gaskets may not be properly lubricated."

Hope this helps
Dean

95 Magna 5280

cummins engine

Reply #24 –
Yahoo Message Number: 25897
I have a 2000 Allure with a 230 hp cummins engine. Recently it is difficult to start, sometimes sort of sputters a bit and after many tries it finally fires up and runs fine unti I stop for a time and then it is again hard to crank up. Some say I must be getting air in the engine somewhere. I had the oil and filters changes recently but I think this probloe predates that tho now it is worse. Any suggestions?? Jim Waterfieldi