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Coach value

Yahoo Message Number: 55573
Hi
Has anyone checked the value of thair coach, we went to the Cleveland Ohio RV show Sunday and some of the dealers were telling me our coach value is droping because of the chapter 11, does anyone have any idea.
Joe Rossi Inspire 2004, 51214
Hiners@yahoogroups.com wrote:

Re: Coach value

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55574
Heard the same from Lazy Days, looking at new Am, Tradition. Interesting, if you follow the used CC inventory over 5 years old surprisingly it doesn't stay a lot very long.
AL

00 affinity #5851

Re: Coach value

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55578
From what I hear, mainly from Junction City that market value is still soft all around with credit still tight. I do not personally beleive there is a brand that is leading any down trend just yet. It you think about it logic would say that with limited production prices should start to firm. After all, new houses are still not being made, and the reason is to keep current home value up.

Jim Spivey Allure 2006 31432

Re: Coach value

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55579
It would appear to me that if no more Country Coaches are made, the value of existing coaches should increase.

Too simple?

George

'04 Inspire 51061

Re: Coach value

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55583
? It would appear to me that if no more Country Coaches are made the value would go down since the people behind the coaches with their experience would be gone. Kind of like a Pontiac, Saturn, now days , they are doing anything they can do to get rid of them. I don't think anyone is collecting them expecting the price to go up. My 2 cents

Re: Coach value

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55587
Jim,

I had a conversation with my realtor in NH two days ago. Sorry I know the is somewhat off topic. He said that in his area of NH new houses are not being built because at a going price of 50 cents on the dollar no one can afford to build the equivalent house that people are walking away from. Many typically owe twice what the house is worth. He also said that only 5% of his loan applications are being accepted and processed by local banks. He claims that the banks are going beyond ridiculous with their qualification requirements.
He is the lead agent in a fairly large Caldwell Banker backed agency. Things are tough at least up there.

Don Seager

2004 Allure 31046

Re: Coach value

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55592
ygrps-yiv-1311978244 v0003a* { }

ygrps-yiv-1311978244 v0003a* { } Values of most class a gas and diesel big rigs have been going down due to the economy. We bought our '06 40' 360 inspire in Oct. '09 at what we considered to be a bargain basement price. With the soon to rebound economy the values should not, in my opinion, drop and if fuel prices ease to '07 levels demand for big rigs such as ours will increase.

--

Re: Coach value

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55593
True to a point....I believe that there are many potential buyers out there that are afraid to purchase an "Orphan" coach and that may lead to declining values...I have checked mine and depending where you go it is all over the map...

W. S. (Bill) Burford
'99 Allure 30307

Re: Coach value

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55603
Hi Joe,

Your's or any make used coach is only worth the wholesale book value or below in these days and times. Most lending institutions will only lend wholesale value plus require a 20% downpayment. Not good for those folks who are upside down on what they owe. Too many new 2008 and 2009 units are going for more than 50% of list price. By the way the dealer was wrong as far a CC is concerned. CC is in chapter 7, not chapter 11.

Chuck & Mary B

Red Bluff, Ca.

Shelby Dog, Miss Kitty, Mr Lucky Cat

Re: Coach value

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55604
There will always be a market for quality used motorhomes. Prices wont fall but I doubt they will increase either.
But your comment re fuel prices is an optomistic one. Crude is on the way up. I'll bet anyones motorhome that we're not far off seeing $3 a gallon again. Then it's not far off seeing $4 again.

Bruce

2001 Intrigue
#11278

Re: Coach value

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55615
Yes, the value of Pontiac, Saturn and other orphans will decrease becasue there are a plethora of reasonable alternatives available, even from GM. But with so few quality coaches still in production and not likely to go back into production any time soon, the value of pre-owned coaches with reputations like CC, Beaver, Foretravel, etc. is likely to increase as demand for quality coaches increases. IMHO, well maintained older coaches will start to increased demand in the not too distant future.
DougC

'94 CC Magna Caprice
'03 mini Hummet toad

Re: Coach value

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55632
You may want to wait and see what Bob Lee does with Junction City. From the court papers it appears that he made a deal with Wells Fargo to take possession of all the manufacturing equipment that sits on his land. When the dust settles is he planning to build coaches again?

Bill Gabler

Re: Coach value

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55633
For what it's worth, he has said he would not be able to handle the financing. Also said the day of the luxury motor coach was ended and that the future was in towables.

George

'04 Inspire 51061

Re: Coach value

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55634
George,

We will let you know this weekend since the Tampa Super RV show will be over on monday. Durring the last 4 months Lazy Days sold 360 higher end coaches at the Crown Club. Stock is low but new ones are coming in at a rate of 15 per week. I help them for no pay at the show booth so I'll let everybody know how things go.
This is the largest RV show in the nation.

Bill Gabler

Re: Coach value

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55635
Some time ago, I put the thought out there that Bob Lee would wind up with CC when it was all over... Bob is not naive or dumb.... In fact he is really pretty intelligent, both in business and working with people... Now, consider for a moment, Bob is working to minimize the value of the equipment and stuff to gain as good a deal as he can.... Now the financing thing can be fixed by BofA as well..... I cannot say this is what is going on, but one does have to stop and think about it...
We could make a soap opera out of this call it... As the CC wheels turn.. Or as the CC assets simmer...

Mikee

Re: Coach value

Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55636
Mikee,

I think that you are right on. When the smoke clears we will see who has what. I don't think that the day of the high end coach is over, but if I were trying to buy a former high end coach manufactures assets, I would sure be trying to make my auction competitors think they were over. 10 cents on the dollar is a whole lot better than 20 cents on the dollar. Someone will fill the void, there are too many baby boomers coming on board with lots of money (as in cash). If you have a lot of cash laying around that you don't want to put back in the market and your days on this earth are numbered, it's time to start spending.

R. D. Vanderslice
06 Allure 470 31294

Re: Coach value

Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55638

Exactly what you would expect him to say if he wanted to minimize the price of buying whatever he wants to buy!! Barrie Boas 94 Concept 5111

Re: Coach value

Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55640
High end low end it is all about profit. Do you all really think there is the same margin in a trailer sale as there is a a class A motor home. Of course not. So how many of anything can you sell to cover what you think is your overhead and expectant profit. That is all it is. Lee made a ton of money on selling his company to idiots who wanted the margin. Borrowing more and more just creates more and more overhead until you just can't haul the freight any longer. I does not make any sense to compare any maker of anything. If they have an overhead that will allow them to profit, they will continue to sell there product. What you all have forgotten is that leverage and easy money got into this business. The poorly financed companies have failed, the poorly prepared for a downturn have failed. What is left is a market lean on production, with little financing. So why take a risk? We have a risk reward system. Until manufacturing is rewarded for taking a risk, all of this discussion is just not on point. If Lee steals the assets, he would still have to make a profit to pay off whatever money he put into the business. The margin in these coaches is terrific when one considers the numbers we saw in the BK process for CC. However the down side is that the margin disappears when fuel goes up, and money is hard to find. That risk at present is still large, and that is the point. No new manufacturing just logically say that used coaches will at some point stop their decline and at least steady if not slowing, then maybe show some appreciation.
But you must have the the customers wants, and is that a Veranda? Is it coaches that cost just shy of $850K? Just what is the model? I don't know, but I do know that all of the post regarding what happens at the auction are pure speculation.

When Mr. Lee said he doubted he could gather the crew to man the plant, what he was really saying is that by this time the unemployed are fast moving in other directions, and the startup effort would be to much for a almost retired individual like Mr. Lee.
Taking over an ongoing business is much much easier than restarting a business that has been closed since last September. Someone could have a plan. Certainly Navistar did. Who else may benefit is a big question. There is also the issue of a closed concern, just where everything is becomes a big deal. Finishing partial coaches could go to any former employee, but then again how do they sell it. It is always risk, and reward. The game in a capitalistic system never changes. I love it, and always appreicate the reward much more for having understood the system.

Jim Spivey

Re: Coach value

Reply #20 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55641
There will ALWAYS be a market for high end coaches. The question is how many? Even during the great depression, in the 30's, there were rich folks having a good time. The money hasn't gone for everyone, or even the majority of folks. I think if anything is going to upset the apple cart it will be fuel prices, government regulations etc. Folks still want the 'lifestyle' that RVing brings with it. The guys at NASCAR and other sports folks making big bucks still need motorhomes. The smart opperators will simply adjust their manufacturing to market demands. It's when manufacturers ignore market demand that they get into trouble. And we can all think of a bad CC model that didn't fit the market!
If you have doubts ask yourself how car manufacturers such as RR have survived. Sure they got subsidies but there is still a markt for luxury goods. Always will be.

Bruce

2001 Intrigue #11278

Re: Coach value

Reply #21 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55642
And me being a capitalistic pig, I understand this well....
Mr Lee has stated upper end coaches, well this is open to translation as well. What is a upper end coach... One that sells for 1 mil or one that sells for 250K. Bob has and can build both...
The close to retirement part does skew the thought process.. .Which motive is stronger? Capitalistic Pig or Retirement... I do not know his priorities.... It could be the determining factor to go either way...
My guess might be he would have a protege to mentor and do most of the work with a handsome reward for sweat equity..
But one thing for sure on Feb 5th we will have a pretty strong clue...

Mikee

Re: Coach value

Reply #22 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55647
The 'manufacturing equipment' referred to below is equipment that was NOT bought and paid for by 'Country Coach' but by Lee Joint Ventures and is being considered as part of the lease of the buildings thus not owned by Wells Fargo. There are several thousand dollars worth of equipment involved including the dyno and brake testing equipment. Whether the equipment is used to build more motorhomes or not is irrelevant...it did not belong to Wells Fargo was the bottom line.

Former CC employee and CC coach owner

Re: Coach value

Reply #23 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55651
According to the court papers, the equipment you refer to was to be auctioned off however Lee petitioned the courts to have Well Fargo repair the roofing on the buildings they were responsible for during the court procedures. The courts then came up with an agreement to give the equipment to Lee in return for not doing any roof repairs. The agreement still must be approved by the courts. That is according to the court papers I receive once a week. Don't know why I'm on the mailing list but it makes interesting reading.

Bill Gabler

Re: Coach value

Reply #24 –
Yahoo Message Number: 55653
Chuck, I am not so sure your statements are correct. There will be some highend used coaches out there that may make a come back. Some examples are Magnas, Sig, Beavers and the reason is that it may be a long time before anyone is building highend coaches of any volume. The amount of money a lending company will loan or how up side down someone is on a coach has no bearing on the value of a coach.
John F.