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Domestic amps when disconnect is off

Yahoo Message Number: 4192
It is warm here in Roseville Ca, so ran my first tests on a CC Allure 2002 #30690 with Invertrix 20 inverter. I will be very verbose.

Background (all/most is not important): Connected to shore power for 16 hours. Domestic and Chassis disconnects on. Inverter/changer on. Steady state reached at 119V 1A, 13.4V 4Amp on Invertrix panel.

Turned off inverter. Disconnect shore power. Turned off Domestic and Chassis disconnects. Of course, batteries have not stabilized several hours, but that is really not very important for this test.
Voltage measured 13.28V, later in the test voltage was 13.14V but I attribute that to the initial stabilization after being immediately removed from a charger.

Visual description: Two red lines run from the coach to the Domestic batteries. (1) I presume from the inverter to middle battery. (2) The other from the right battery to the Domestic Disconnect. There is a red jumper between the center and right batteries so that the domestic and inverter/charger can draw from both batteries.

I removed the wing nuts. Removed the jumper between the batteries.
(Effectively now, the inverter would be using the middle battery, and the domestic the right battery, but I continued). I removed the two main lines, and proceeded to measure amperage with a 20A DC ammeter.

Red lead to inverter (I presume) measured 0.00A. (Inverter breakers were even on). No parasitic drain.

Red lead to Domestic Disconnect stabilized at 0.49A (after a brief initial surge, to start various, always on, electronics).
Turned on Domestic Disconnect and measured 3.07A after it stabilized for 10 seconds. A few minutes later, I repeated but had a steady state measurement of 2.40A, which was repeatable.

Turning the chassis disconnect on/off, did not affect the Domestic Amps, as I expected it would not. Just for completeness of the test.

At 800AH combined battery rating, the batteries would last for 14 days if the disconnect was ON.

At 800AH combined, a 0.49A discharge should take a LONG time to deplete the batteries.

Since in my opinion, this was a very low rate, I did not (yet) pursue where the current was used.

FYI, the line from the right battery to the domestic disconnect, splits out four ways -- two on the battery, always-on side; and two on the disconnected side. Have not traced all of them, but this is what I know:

Hot, always-on side of domestic disconnect:

a. Lead to 105A Domestic breaker above switch, and to where it goes I have not checked yet.

b. Another lead to ???

c. Of course, the lead from the battery

Disconnected side of Domestic switch:
a. 200 Slide breaker

b. Domestic panel in diesel air intake compartment (this is where
the other 1.9A (2.40-0.49) goes.

A diagram would have saved me a few hundred words.

Herb

CC Allure 2002 #30690

Re: Domestic amps when disconnect is off

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 4215
Hi Herb. I see you were not affected by the blizzard we here in the East just absorbed...Spent today cleaning off a foot of new snow from the RV roof. Our CC's have no trouble in getting us to waste time!!! I thank you for doing the test. I have been hoping that a big drain would be found but then all units may be different. Temps are actually supposed to go up to the mid 30's this week so perhaps I will finally be able to make some of my own tests.
I think I understand everything you write and only have one question. CC techs have written that the inverter (Heart in my case) uses 6 amps doing nothing and hence the need to turn off the circuit breaker in the rear bedroom power box. Are Invertrex units different? You write that you measured 0.00A with the invertrex breakers on...Am I missing something??? Thanks again and enjoy the sunshine. Mike 2000 Allure #30493 On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:35:55 -0000 "Herb & Melitta Strandberg herb@...>" herb@...> writes:

Re: Domestic amps when disconnect is off

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 4216
My measurements were with the invertrix ON at the 110V breaker box (probably no bearing since that only controls the OUTPUT). The invertrix was OFF at its remote control panel. I will need to verify where the unidentified wires lead to. I was assuming that the 0.00A cable running from the middle battery would be used to directly feed the inverter because it larger than the other unidentified one on from the always-hot side of the domestic disconnect switch. So, one way or another the inverter is drawing 0A or no more than 0.49A with the disconnect off.

Invertrix units have at least the following two faults:

(1) Manufacturer is out of business.

(2) The unit is also the charger/converter (to produce 12V from 120V. This inverter needs to be on to charge the domestic batteries while plugged into shore power. Leave the inverter off while on shore power, and you will have dead domestic batteries in a few days from running the 12V lights and furnace. Warranty is 10,000 hours, easy to rack up if you have to leave it on. Of course, what good is the warranty without a manufacturer, except apparently CC will honor it.

I will check the diagrams tonight.

Herb

Re: Domestic amps when disconnect is off

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 4220
-Hi Herb,

Good Detective work!

There should be a foldout electrical schematic in the back pocket of one of your two manuals. The battery connections are in the lower left portion of the foldout. It should answer all (most?) of your questions as to where amps are going with the disconnects open.
Fred Kovol

Re: Domestic amps when disconnect is off

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 4227
In summary, after reviewing he wiring diagrams located in the "Chassis" binder -- about the sixth foldout diagram in my book.

Circuits that are alway hot (Domestic switch either on or off) and represented 0.49A drain on my system.

a. Red 2/0 cable to 300A fuse feeding Invertrix Inverter (from battery) -- measured at 0.00A. (By the way, this is a "two-way" cable which will draw from the batteries to create 110V, and feed the batteries to charge them, and feed 12V to the domestic subpanel while floating the batteries on shore power. Would be kind of interesting to put on a -300/0/+300 discharge/charge meter on them and monitor the net flow.)

b. Red 2/0 cable from battery to Domestic disconnect switch (measured at 0.49A with switch off -- This figure would be the combined amps of c,d,e & f below.

c. Red #2 cable to Battery Boost Solenoid (from hot side of disconnect -- the previously unidentified wire in my report)
d. Red #2 cable to 105A Generator Start (says the wiring diagram) (Labeled as 105A Domestic Breaker in the bulkhead)) (from hot side of disconnect)

e. Black #8 30A to Hydronic System (not on my coach but in referenced wiring chart)

f. 3A to Heart Interface Cable (not on my coach but in referenced wiring chart). Maybe there is a lead to the Invertrix cable too splitting off at the generator or ????

Circuits that are turned off by Domestic Disconnect Switch. On my coach, it is extremely likely (b) is consuming the remaining 1.9A (as I can't imagine any parasitic drain from the HTH slide):
a. Red #4 to 12V Domestic subpanel in the engine air intake bay. I may later research the sources of the 1.9A draw by pulling fuses in the subpanel. Of course, the easiest thing to do is just turn off the disconnect :-) and not worry about this.

b. Red to 200A slide breaker.

Again, above is for a 2002 Allure CC #30690 manufactured in 3/2001 with an Invertrix inverter.
Herb

Quote from: fredkovol\[br\
"]
-Hi Herb,

Good Detective work!

There should be a foldout electrical schematic in the back pocket of > one of your two manuals. The battery connections are in the lower

left

Re: Domestic amps when disconnect is off

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 4236
In reference to item f., the Invertrix inverter communicates with its remote panel above the entry door via a 6 conductor phone cable.
The remote panel also communicates with the 'generator controller' via an additional 6 conductor phone cable. There shouldn't be any current draw between the generator and the inverter components unless the generator is on. The 'generator controller' is probably behind the inverters remote panel above the entry door.

Quote from: Herb & Melitta\[br\
Strandberg "] > In summary, after reviewing he wiring diagrams located in > the "Chassis" binder -- about the sixth foldout diagram in my book.

Circuits that are alway hot (Domestic switch either on or off) and > represented 0.49A drain on my system.

a. Red 2/0 cable to 300A fuse feeding Invertrix Inverter (from > battery) -- measured at 0.00A. (By the way, this is a "two-way" > cable which will draw from the batteries to create 110V, and feed

the

Quote
batteries to charge them, and feed 12V to the domestic subpanel

while

Quote
floating the batteries on shore power. Would be kind of

interesting

Quote
to put on a -300/0/+300 discharge/charge meter on them and monitor > the net flow.)

b. Red 2/0 cable from battery to Domestic disconnect switch > (measured at 0.49A with switch off -- This figure would be the > combined amps of c,d,e & f below.

c. Red #2 cable to Battery Boost Solenoid (from hot side of > disconnect -- the previously unidentified wire in my report) >

d. Red #2 cable to 105A Generator Start (says the wiring diagram) > (Labeled as 105A Domestic Breaker in the bulkhead)) (from hot side

of

Quote
disconnect)

e. Black #8 30A to Hydronic System (not on my coach but in > referenced wiring chart)

f. 3A to Heart Interface Cable (not on my coach but in referenced > wiring chart). Maybe there is a lead to the Invertrix cable too > splitting off at the generator or ???? >

Circuits that are turned off by Domestic Disconnect Switch. On my > coach, it is extremely likely (b) is consuming the remaining 1.9A

(as

Quote
I can't imagine any parasitic drain from the HTH slide): >

a. Red #4 to 12V Domestic subpanel in the engine air intake bay.

I

Quote
may later research the sources of the 1.9A draw by pulling fuses in > the subpanel. Of course, the easiest thing to do is just turn off > the disconnect :-) and not worry about this.

b. Red to 200A slide breaker.

Again, above is for a 2002 Allure CC #30690 manufactured in 3/2001 > with an Invertrix inverter.

Herb

[quote author=fredkovol

> -Hi Herb,

> Good Detective work!

> There should be a foldout electrical schematic in the back pocket

of