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take it easy folks

Yahoo Message Number: 4393
I have enjoyed many of the messages in this forum and find it a useful tool in keeping up with my Intrigue. I hope to be able to share solutions with others and gain from your experiences.
One thing comes through loud and clear as I read the ones from not-so-happy owners: I'll match notes with about anyone when it comes to the first year blues, including filing a lemon-law complaint and ultimately settling my claim with CC for a relatively small amount.
However, now that the experience is behind me and I have a clearer perspective of the whole frustrating mess, I have adopted a better attitude toward my coach and life in general is much better for me.
If I could offer a word of caution to frustrated owners: If you can accept the fact that nobody builds a perfect product and that CC is probably at the top of the scale when it comes to value in a high-line coach, things may start to go easier for you. Life will get better, I guarantee it!
My greatest regret is that my expectations were aimed far to high for CC to deliver. I have owned 13 RV's including 9 motor homes over the 40 years we have been married. When I shelled out over $200k for this coach, I thought I was entitled to receive a much better product than the RV industry is able to deliver.
As I look back on it now, it was absurd to expect that money can solve it. The more you spend, the more gadgets you get. The more gadgets, the more problems!
My coach has 40k on the odometer now. I routinely fix at least two or three things each time I use it. So?
My lifelong ambition once was to own a Prevost conversion bus with all the trimmings. Ha! If I had the money, I'd also have to hire a full-time mechanic who was trained at the factory to drive around behind me with his tool box. Even then I could not be assured that the beast would not need to be towed!
Thanks for listening. To sum it up: Take it easy, lower your expectations to a realistic level, take problems in stride. It isn't what problems we have, it's how we are able to handle them that makes us happy. Expensive motor homes are troublesome creatures. That is a fact of life. I really (really) like my coach now that I have given it a big hug and decided to be friends with it, notwithstanding its continual need for maintenance, maintenance, maintenance.
If we can use this forum for an active interchange of solving problems and a not just bashing the manufacturer, we will all be happier.

Larry

99 Intrigue 10762

Re: take it easy folks

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 4394
Larry,

I think that a quality coach is something like a thoroughbred horse or a beautiful woman - they all take a lot of TLC. Sounds like you have gained a less stressful perspective. Enjoy!

Glen R. Fotre - Tucson, AZ

1996 Beaver Patriot/Toyota 4x4 Xtra Cab/Toyota RAV-4 AWD/Miata FMCA #F36478 Good Sam #043833367 BAC glen@...
glen@...

Re: take it easy folks

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 4395
I've been "lurking" on this and a few other RV groups for over a year while trying to decide what to buy for our retirement travels. I have concluded that the RV industry has a notable QC problem, but that most of the problems are indeed minor and that with the right attitude there are several quality coaches that would fit the bill for what we're looking for -- a conclusion that matches your bottom line rather well I think

However, it shouldn't take a lemon law filing to get the initial coach issues solved. I'm disappointed that you had to go to that extreme with CC -- they were high on my list of candidates (I wasn't quite mentally ready to cross the $200k barrier, but was getting close).

As a matter of interest, were any of your issues safety related (drivability, braking, etc.) or major house system failures (heating, A/C, plumbing)? IMHO these are not acceptable in any new coach, and particularly in those at CC price levels. Other than this, I can accept that the complexity of a motorhome means there will be problems from time to time -- although I hope it's not as bad as one of your final comments implies (...its continual need for maintenance, maintenance, maintenance.)
I agree with your implication that even Prevosts aren't immune to the problems. My initial inclination was to buy a used higher end (Bluebird, Foretravel, CC Magna) coach -- but with all the problems I've read about it's not clear to me how to distinguish between a problem-free used coach and a problem-prone coach someone's just bailing out of (the mileage is some indication of this, but not a really solid indicator). So I'm leaning towards a new coach that at least has some warranty coverage to get past the first year.

I agree the forums are best used for a constructive exchange of information to improve our coaches and solve problems. But it can also be helpful to be sure recurrent quality issues are well publicized -- I've eliminated a couple of manufacturers from my consideration based on this kind of feedback (but only when there are multiple posters -- not just 1 or 2 "sour grapes" posts). It's also informative to note when folks with problems are treated well by the manufacturers -- as seems to be the case with CC.

Gary Case

Quote from: Larry Hanson
> I have enjoyed many of the messages in this forum and find it a
useful tool in keeping up with my Intrigue. I hope to be able to share solutions with others and gain from your experiences.

Quote
>

One thing comes through loud and clear as I read the ones from not-
so-happy owners: I'll match notes with about anyone when it comes to the first year blues, including filing a lemon-law complaint and ultimately settling my claim with CC for a relatively small amount.

Quote
>

However, now that the experience is behind me and I have a clearer
perspective of the whole frustrating mess, I have adopted a better attitude toward my coach and life in general is much better for me.

Quote
>

If I could offer a word of caution to frustrated owners: If you can
accept the fact that nobody builds a perfect product and that CC is probably at the top of the scale when it comes to value in a high- line coach, things may start to go easier for you. Life will get better, I guarantee it!

Quote
>

My greatest regret is that my expectations were aimed far to high
for CC to deliver. I have owned 13 RV's including 9 motor homes over the 40 years we have been married. When I shelled out over $200k for this coach, I thought I was entitled to receive a much better product than the RV industry is able to deliver.

Quote
>

As I look back on it now, it was absurd to expect that money can
solve it. The more you spend, the more gadgets you get. The more gadgets, the more problems!

Quote
>

My coach has 40k on the odometer now. I routinely fix at least two
or three things each time I use it. So?

Quote
>

My lifelong ambition once was to own a Prevost conversion bus with
all the trimmings. Ha! If I had the money, I'd also have to hire a full-time mechanic who was trained at the factory to drive around behind me with his tool box. Even then
Quote
I could not be assured that the beast would not need to be towed! >

Thanks for listening. To sum it up: Take it easy, lower your
expectations to a realistic level, take problems in stride. It isn't what problems we have, it's how we are able to handle them that makes us happy. Expensive motor homes are troublesome creatures. That is a fact of life. I really (really) like my coach now that I have given it a big hug and decided to be friends with it, notwithstanding its continual need for maintenance, maintenance, maintenance.

Quote
>

If we can use this forum for an active interchange of solving
problems and a not just bashing the manufacturer, we will all be happier.

Re: take it easy folks

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 4396
You hit on a point. The reporting of the good and the bad. Those who read the postings in this type of forum must not loose site that the reporting is some what lop-sided. I would expect that for every one thing reported or implied as a problem, there are 10-20 others in the forum not saying anything because they have no problem in that same area.

I purchased a two year old Country Coach Allure. Yes, it had some problems I found, but I expected it up front. However, I think I had less than if I had purchased new. Having owned a number of offshore boats, I am accustomed to expect that anything can and will happen.
The only hedge against the unexpected is good scheduled and routine maintenance. Maintenance is not just checking the oil, kicking the tires and lighting the fire.

Jim Hughes

Jacksonville, FL

2000 Country Coach Allure #30511

Re: take it easy folks

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 4397
Gary,

Consider how much "fixing" on a high line used coach will cost & compare that to how much one loses in depreciation each year.

Just something to consider...............
Steve

Intrigue #10673

Re: take it easy folks

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 4399
Jim

You make a great point. This site only covers a small percentage of the CC owners. During my travels to rallies and club functions I see hundreds of CC owners and most if not all are very happy with the CC brand. We will be heading for a Country Cousins rally in Lexington, Ky in May and at the end of May we will be at the Indy 500 with Bob Lee's group. At each on of these rallies we will hear discussions on coach problems but no one will be talking about changing brands. We have all been thru the other brands commonly referred to as SOBs(some other brand).

Bill G. 2001 Magna #5998

Re: take it easy folks

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 4400
Well said Larry, Iknow a person that owns a $30,000 Harley and he tows it everywhere he goes because it always breaks down on long highway trips. But he would not own any other brand. He says Harleys break down a lot because they have so much more to go wrong. take care

Bill G. 2001 Magna #5998

Re: take it easy folks

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 4402
I want to thank "Larry Hanson" for his post. I read many newsgroups and rarely see that someone takes the time to admit that his expectations were too high for whatever he bought. Larry gives all of us the opportunity to focus on our own expectations and to re-think how realistic they are.

"Larry Hanson" larry.hanson@...> wrote:

Quote
If I could offer a word of caution to frustrated > owners: If you can accept the fact that nobody > builds a perfect product
Interestingly, nobody buys a new house and expects everything in it to be perfect but for some reason many RV-ers expect that our "houses on wheels" are perfect when we drive them off the dealer's lot. When you combine the complexity of a house with the complexity of a truck chassis and then shake, rattle and roll them through the country, you're bound to discover some problems.

Quote
My lifelong ambition once was to own a Prevost > conversion bus with all the trimmings. Ha! If I had > the money, I'd also have to hire a full-time > mechanic who was trained at the factory to drive > around behind me with his tool box. Even then > I could not be assured that the beast would not need > to be towed!
I think you're going over the top here. Let's talk about Country Coach in this group. As a Prevost owner, I can tell you that the likelihood of a break-down is small compared to motorhomes. However, I agree with you that some of the fancy equipment choices buyers of custom conversation make for their "house on wheels" may require more care and attention than they realize. I also agree with you that the fancier you get the more problems you should expect.
That concept, of course, applies to all motorhomes, trailers, conversions, etc. By the way, Country Coach no longer converts Prevost. Management decided to focus on the development of their own brand of new luxury motorhomes.

Quote
Take it easy,

lower your expectations to a realistic level, take > problems in stride.
If you buy a quality motorhome you CAN expect that it will allow you to enjoy the RV lifestyle. We just have to get past the initial "test phase", make adjustments/repairs/replacements of parts as necessary and allow some time to pass before the RV performs as expected. I found that the same time frame of approx. two years applies to occasional RV users (as opposed to full-time users) who buy a new motorhome made by Country Coach, American, Monaco, etc. There are some lemons out there, and we read about them in the newsgroups, and there are some cream puffs out there, but we usually don't hear from happy owners.

I wish all of you many happy RV travels.

Regards,
Jeff

Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online http://webhosting.yahoo.com

Re: take it easy folks-Prevost

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 4403
By the way, Country Coach

Quote
no longer converts Prevost. Management decided to > focus on the development of their own brand of new > luxury motorhomes.

Hi Jeff,

Country Coach is converting Prevosts. Robin from Buddy Gregg wrote about them a month ago and posted it here, check it out.

Damon

Re: take it easy folks-Prevost

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 4404
Well, Damon, since this is your business you probably know better than I do. I remember clearly reading that CC wanted to get out of the conversion business and focus on CC built luxury motorhomes. It seems they have changed their corporate mind again. :-)

For anyone interested in a Prevost, a Country Coach conversion is worth a look. I don't want to start a discussion about who may currently be and who have been the "best" converter over the years. I just want to point out that Country Coach has built conversions in the past that distinguish themselves from many others by incorporating into their floorplan designs innovative ideas that make RV-ing more comfortable. I have looked at many bus conversions and CC conversions always stood out in the accessory department.
Personally, I think CC's fold-out state room table and swing-around tablet in the front (to name just two) are more attractive ideas than fancy indirect lighting designs and sculpted w/w carpeting.

Regards,
Jeff

"damonrapozo" damon.rapozo@...> wrote: Buddy Gregg wrote about them a month ago and posted it here, check it out. >>

Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online http://webhosting.yahoo.com

Re: take it easy folks

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 4405
Ok, guys...my expectations were too high.
I wanted a coach that was worth what I paid for it. No smoking electronics engine. awnings that stay where they are supposed to be, pac brakes that work, step covers that work...

right now I would settle for an engine that doesn't smoke.
Is that asking too much? I don't think so, with a list price of over $250k I would think that a manufacturer could handle that problem

Quote from: Jeff F \[br\
]

Re: take it easy folks

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 4406
Travman,

I realize Country Coach placed that Cummins engine in your coach, however I do not know what Country Coach could have done to make your engine smoke. It sounds like Cummins needs to jump in a little deeper, of course there is always two sides to every story and we ahve not heard Cummins. On every coach I drive, I always notice a "light" puff of black/gray smoke when under load. This happens on a Cummins, Cat, or Detroit. Anything more than "light" should be repaired by your local Cummins dealership. Sometimes I have had my customers try a different Cummins dealership, maybe one that is a bit more advanced with a dyno? I have had my run ins with Cummins before trying to help customers, and I realize its no fun. Cat is much more friendly in that aspect, and they seem to have less problems (C-10, C-12, and C-15).

One thing I have always noticed in watching and lurking on many groups, majority of the Country Coach complaints are with vendor supplied items such as Cummins, Girard, Hurricane, etc. which every manufacturer runs into. What I see is that every other manufacturer at best has more of an even mix, but most have more coach problems than vendor problems in my opinion. It is more noticable now than ever since my move, this dealership has so many different models that we sell, so I hear all the storys from customers and my co- workers.

Good Luck,

Damon Rapozo

Who is off to Vegas for the Pre-rally tonight

Quote from: travman100
Ok, guys...my expectations were too high.
I wanted a coach that was worth what I paid for it. No smoking > electronics engine. awnings that stay where they are supposed to

be,

Quote
pac brakes that work, step covers that work...

right now I would settle for an engine that doesn't smoke.

Is that asking too much? I don't think so, with a list price of

over

Re: take it easy folks

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 4407
Damon,

Slight correction. There are usually 3 sides to a 2 sided discussion. What "he" said, what "she" said and what "really was said/happened."

FYI exhaust smoke: I have a 1998 Prevost Country Conversion which is the 475+hp Detroit Series 60. Eveytime we accelerate there is a small amount of smoke coming out the exhaust. It is normal and expected. I will only worry when there is continued or much larger quantity of smoke.

Bill-PA-Country Coach Prevost 40' XL 1998

Re: take it easy folks

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 4408
your right, just watch a truck going down the hwy most times when they step on it you see smoke comming from the the stack. The color of the smoke is important, white is bad, blue is not so good.

Re: take it easy folks

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 4493
Folks:

Sorry, but I have been away for a few weeks attending to some family business. I want to add my $0.02 to this thread and to the quality thread.

Since my last post we have traveled from San Jose to LA to Las Vegas to San Diego to the Pomona rally and back to San Jose. We have only had a couple of problems in that amount of time. We broke down on I5 on the way to our meeting in LA (had to be towed to Fresno, $350) missed a critical meeting, slide still "slides" in every night, step cover works ~50% of the time BUT our entry step didn't open while we were traveling down the road once (a first!) and our door tried to open on its own three times (stopped by our deadbolt!). All of these problems except the I5

breakdown (Cummins oil pressure sensor failure) have been to CC in JC at least three times to be fixed.

My expectations are really quite simple. I expect a high quality vehicle to have minimal failures and I expect those repairs to be performed reliably. That's all I expect for my $250,000.
I am sorry but I think Country Coach has a real problem, in addition the the industry's overall poor product quality, fix the problem when the customer brings it to you.

For those pondering how one-sided my complaint is, please email me at: neil@... and I will provide you with the copies of our work orders and factory documentation. I am not interested in distorting the truth, I want CC to take care of the terrible problems they have foisted on those of us who purchased 2002 products that are unmaintainable.

Regards,
Neil

Intrigue #11370

Quote from: bikerbill44
Damon,

Slight correction. There are usually 3 sides to a 2 sided > discussion. What "he" said, what "she" said and what "really was > said/happened."

FYI exhaust smoke: I have a 1998 Prevost Country Conversion which

is

Re: take it easy folks

Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 4576
The electronic engines on the newer Cummins engines are not supposed to emit any smoke so those of you talking about older engines and Detroit diesels are absolutely correct...those do smoke. I am comparing mine to only the newer electronic controlled engines...they are not supposed to smoke and a properly operating one doesn't smoke.
But, apologize for CC and cummins if you wish, that is your right. I prefer to try to get them to fix known problems than to say I can live with a product that is not doing what it should do.

Quote from: bikerbill44
Damon,

Slight correction. There are usually 3 sides to a 2 sided > discussion. What "he" said, what "she" said and what "really was > said/happened."

FYI exhaust smoke: I have a 1998 Prevost Country Conversion which

is

Re: take it easy folks

Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 4580
Travman,

Every electronic engine I have ever driven (Cat, Cummins, and Detroit) blows smoke upon acceleration, not a lot but enough to see. I saw no difference going from manual engines to electronic engines in 1998, they all puff a bit.

Damon

Quote from: travman100
The electronic engines on the newer Cummins engines are not

supposed

Quote
to emit any smoke so those of you talking about older engines and > Detroit diesels are absolutely correct...those do smoke. I am > comparing mine to only the newer electronic controlled
engines...they

Quote
are not supposed to smoke and a properly operating one doesn't

smoke.

Quote
But, apologize for CC and cummins if you wish, that is your right.

I

Quote
prefer to try to get them to fix known problems than to say I can > live with a product that is not doing what it should do.

[quote author=bikerbill44"

>

> Damon,
>

> Slight correction. There are usually 3 sides to a 2 sided > > discussion. What "he" said, what "she" said and what "really was > > said/happened."
>

> FYI exhaust smoke: I have a 1998 Prevost Country Conversion

which

Quote
is

> the 475+hp Detroit Series 60. Eveytime we accelerate there is a > > small amount of smoke coming out the exhaust. It is normal and > > expected. I will only worry when there is continued or much

larger

Re: take it easy folks

Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 4626
I think motorhoming is a sport. Some times we get home run and sometimes we strike out. Or perhaps we fish but catch no fish. The pleasure is in doing it.

john drebick affinity 6194