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Topic: Boucing on Hwy 90 out of Rapid City SD going East (Read 1225 times) previous topic - next topic
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Boucing on Hwy 90 out of Rapid City SD going East

Yahoo Message Number: 62030
Traveled on Hwy 40 in AZ & NM with no problem, but in parts of CO & WY and now on Hwy 90 SD, the coach is bouncing real bad on all most saw cuts/spacers & overpass interfaces. The coach is an 05 Allure with 45K miles. Question, do I need new shocks or is this normal for these type of roads.

Re: Boucing on Hwy 90 out of Rapid City SD going East

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 62037

We just exchanged messages on this the last couple of days plus it comes up more often than you might think.

Set your Koni shocks to the stiffest setting.
Raise the front end ride height in small increments until the bottoming stops.

Search recent messages on adjusting Knoi shocks for more info.

Bob (rthandren@...)
'05 Inspire 51178

Re: Boucing on Hwy 90 out of Rapid City SD going East

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 62061
Same issue for me last year - went to Road Kings. I'm traveling in SD now and I've been on the road for 3 weeks out of SoCal - ride is great.

Steve Brown

04' Inspire 51168

Re: Boucing on Hwy 90 out of Rapid City SD going East

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 62077
I know you people that went out and bought expensive Road King shocks feel you have to justify that decision, but I know for a fact that the adjustable Koni shocks, set to the second firmest position, with the proper ride height set, give a great ride. So MY advice to those considering Road King is DON'T DO IT! Set your ride height properly and make sure your Koni's are at the next-to-firmest position. You will have a great ride. I am on my ORIGINAL Koni shocks, at 112,000 miles, and my ride is super! NO BOTTOMING OUT!

Al Colby

2000 Intrigue 10979

Re: Boucing on Hwy 90 out of Rapid City SD going East

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 62081
Let me add a thought to this topic. Two days ago I adjusted my front Koni's and increased my ride height. I will find out next week if there is noticable improvement on my trip to Colorado.
One thing stood out from my getting dirty. These Koni shocks are not valved to resist compression from a nose dive, only dampened on the rebound. You can easily compress them with one hand, but you have to pull like heck to extend them. That means these Koni shocks offer nothing to prevent bottoming out where a dual action shock would be a major benefit.
I just called Road King. The are valved approximately 40/60 depending on the application. That's 40% on the dive, 60% on the rebound. That would have to be a better shock on a coach inclined to nose plant. Problem is, its $750 for the front....plus shipping.
Expensive, yes. But they might easily be worth it. If I still have problems during my trip, I will seriously consider going to Road Kings.

Re: Boucing on Hwy 90 out of Rapid City SD going East

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 62083
The major reason the shocks do not dampen bound is because in the event of the tire hitting a bump that goes up as opposed to down the air bags can compress and not put additional load on the tire, if the suspension was stiff to bound the air bag could not dampen it and the tire would take a bigger hit than just the weight already on it. This design is most likely intentional to avoid shock loading of the tires in this situation.

Mikee

Mikee

Re: Boucing on Hwy 90 out of Rapid City SD going East

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 62091
Mikee, as usual I agree with you for the most part, but I believe bound and rebound dampening is to some degree a design variable, governed by the coach manufacturer's ride and suspension objectives. I was able to confirm online that not all shocks are 0/100 (bound to rebound) like these Koni's are. Country Coach did not always get things right, and shock selection in my opinion is right in there.
A 0/100 shock would definitely be the best choice for sudden and sharp impacts like a chuck hole, but contrary to a couple of responses, I think most would agree that these Koni's provide absolutely no shock contribution towards preventing bottoming out from a serious dip in the road. THere is absolutely no dampening effect until the suspension recoils back upward (rebound). For that reason I would definitely consider switching to a dual action shock like the Road Kings, which I note have been sold and installed for some time now without any negative press, other than price, that I can find.
The biggest question at this point is where is the sweet spot in the bound/rebound ratio?

Re: Boucing on Hwy 90 out of Rapid City SD going East

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 62092
All shocks can be extended and compressed by hand. Next time try to compress it faster. You will find that the faster you push the harder it gets. Shocks dampen the force proportional to the speed and amount of force exerted. This is done with a number of methods each one being claimed the best. If you are using your hand test to conclude that Koni shocks are not valved to resist compression I don't believe that is a valid conclusion.
One thing though if the shock easily compresses when you try faster and with more force then yes the shock is bad. Shocks do wear and go bad with all makes. A worn out shock is not really a reason to switch brands.
Shocks, as has been stated here many times, have little to do with bottoming out. That is a ride height issue. If you had a dump truck that bottomed out under heavy load then you would add more leaves to the springs or helper springs not change out the shocks. Adding more air to the air bags is the equivalent of that solution

Don Seager

2004 Allure 31046

Re: Boucing on Hwy 90 out of Rapid City SD going East

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 62093
You are on the right track, think of the reverse situation, when the front axle or suspension hits an upward bump in the road, the axle must be able to move up to avoid lifting the whole coach and transferring the whole load of the coach to the tire. If the suspension is allowed to move up the air bags will absorb the movement. That being said CC used a lot of low profile bags, these bags have 1.5" snubbers in them thus if those snubbers only have 1" or so separation between them at ride height they will contact each other . I have worked on several CC that have these bags the simple solution is to raise the ride height about an inch above CC specs. This has stopped the problem in all the coaches I have done and several others that have done this to. i set the ride height 1" above CC specs in the front them set the rear so the coach is level left to right and front to back. This has fixed the condition in all the coaches. If you want to prov e this dump the air, measure the bag height, then raise the coach with the manual control till it is at the max measure it. lets you get 4 and 10 then set the ride height to 7 and it will ride great. This gives you 3" inches of travel in either direction. as opposed to 1 and 5 so to speak. Now before someone chimes in and talks about drive shaft angle..... As long as the U Joint angle are the same at both ends it is fine. Most U Joint have an operating range of 1 to 20 degrees. The important thing is they are equal. This is set with the pinion angle, it must be equal but opposite the Trans output shaft angle. IE 6+ vs 6- This way the u Joints function in harmony as opposed to working the slip joint in the drive shaft. When one moves up the other moves down so the distance stays the same. We do a lot of heavy haulers and understand this geometry pretty well. Read the posts over the last few days about raising he ride heights 1/2 to an inch and the positive results. >

Mikee

Re: Boucing on Hwy 90 out of Rapid City SD going East

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 62101

Al,

Amen. I was biting my tongue/fingers on keyboard. I am sure some will feel a "better ride" with the Road Kings but that is very subjective and if the buyer is happy spending nearly $1,000 to get that, fine.
But it is extremely doubtful that alone will stop the bottoming out problem; I submit that change alone cannot solve the problem, anyone is free to disagree. There have been plenty of folks posting that the shock changes have not helped, a few have said it has so based on postings at best it's a slim "maybe" situation. Expensive gamble.in my book.
Correcting the ride height will stop, guaranteed, the bottoming problem every time without buying new shocks.and costs nothing for those that can handle a 9/16 box wrench and tape measure.

Bob (rthandren@...)
'05 Inspire 51178

Re: Boucing on Hwy 90 out of Rapid City SD going East

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 62103

Stu:

I didn't comment last time on the lack of compression resistance by your Koni's. If you are accurate in that I propose they are in fact defective. When I adjusted mine resistence in both directions changed with the adjustments. So they may need replacement.
Did you call Koni? They have a lifetime warranty or claim they do for original owner as I recall.

Bob (rthandren@...)
'05 Inspire 51178

Re: Boucing on Hwy 90 out of Rapid City SD going East

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 62104

Stuart:

Most shocks have significantly less comprresson resistance than rebound but I doubt it is 0.
The exception are drag race shocks that are valved to assist rise of the body on acceleration. 90/10 is common for the front end and they give a lousy, jarring ride that can be dangerous. You have to permit compression of the suspenson for it to do its job of smooting out the ride so this direction is valved much softer than rebound.

I am sure MIkee can expand if he wishes.
I see no need and have no intention of swapping the Konis out of our rig. They are quality products.

Bob (rthandren@...)
'05 Inspire 51178

Re: Boucing on Hwy 90 out of Rapid City SD going East

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 62105
I've posted elsewhere questions, opinions and info on Shocks and Handling in general. According to my wife, it is a Man's way, to change his mind at anytime. I've done this, again:)!
To me, there were two seperate items I was trying to address with our new to us, 04 40' Tag Allure. Here is a quick recap: -Test drive when buying the rig. Bottom out the front end, and 2 1/2 to 3 bounces on medium heavy dips. After researching, mostly on this board, as part of the PDI, I had the front shocks set to 4 out of 5, and the ride height set to the top of the setting range. Results on our post delivery shake down trip, were very good. However, the handling was still not what I was looking for.
-Researched with Koni, and Henderson's the new this year, Koni SP3's. Had decided to wait and see how some real world user's of this shock felt.
-I had felt that the 'bottom out' problem was 95% contained by the higher setting of the front end. Could have gone 1/2" over as my next step.
-Had decided that the back and forth 'setting' of the coach in mountain S curves, was not to my liking. So, ordered the over 30K Lbs Super Steer Motion Control Units for the rear, and the under 30K lbs MCU's for the front. (Henderson's suggested that the IFS of the Country Coach, seemed to respond well to this mix of MCU's.) -I then had many good emails on Road Kings. I called to Road King a second time, and this time Lonnie picked up the phone. The knowledge base, and sure - the sell's capability - was much improved by taking with Lonnie. I bought the full set of six shocks from Road King.
We're dialing this coach in at the start of what we hope will be 15-20 years + of usage, in a permanent Part Time Full Time :)! (6-9 months a year on the road.) So spreading the costs out over this period of time, I rationalized for us, that what I felt would be an improved handling rig with Road Kings and MCU's - was a solid investment.
I want to stress 'handling' over comfort. Not handling just going down the road, or needing to perhaps slow down in mountain driving. To me, 'handling' is a total SAFETY item. I want every bit of edge I can get, when an 'emergency' situation comes up. What price can you put on the ability to avoid an accident? (Went with the same thought process when I added the SS-30 behind the Norcold 1200, a reasonable expnese for 'safety insurance'.)
The Road Kings are going on the rig now. We'll drive it, and then probably add the MCU's. But, doing one change at a time is the plan. We'll do a September 'long trip'.
I'm going to wait to get the long trip under my belt, before sharing my full perspectives on the Road Kings and possibly MCU's. I do not expect a 50% improvement in handling. But I do expect a 10 to perhaps as high as 25% improvement, we'll see. One thing great about this country, at least for now, is that it is our individual choices on how and where we want to spend our money. I put my money into this, as I expect handling improvement. (I also like Hi Fi, and will be adding Tube Integrated Amp's and Left/Right improved speakers too. Again, my choice on where I want to spend my money (well, when the wife is not looking!) Got Tubes?).
Realize I was more long winded then normal on this post. But, so often what is important to one person, is not to another. Nothing is wrong with that, we all have our opinions... So, I took the time to try and explain where I was coming from on Shocks, MCU's and "handling".

Best to all, and good luck on your decisions! Smitty

04 Allure 40' 31017
04 Allure Sold to a nice new owner! Now enjoying a 07 Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600 #6775
"We're ONDROAD for THEJRNY!" (Toad and Coach license plates, say Hi if you see us!)

Re: Boucing on Hwy 90 out of Rapid City SD going East

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 62107
Koni's lifetime warranty does NOT apply to a motorhome owner. Kon's definition of "original owner" is Country Coach, Inc., not an individual motorhome owner. Been there, done that!!

Brian Davis

'05 Intrigue OVTS
Coach #11901

Re: Boucing on Hwy 90 out of Rapid City SD going East

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 62109
Brian,

You are correct. Koni explained to me that the shock business is highly competitive. To compete for CC business they sold them shocks at an individual price that had been downward adjusted by the usual average add-on to cover the life time warrantee coverage provided to individuals that purchase them. It made sense so I assume he was right.

Don Seager

2004 Allure 31046

Re: Boucing on Hwy 90 out of Rapid City SD going East

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 62121
The issues is Bouncing, I understand the firm setting and raising height to preventing bottoming out. But when you start bouncing it seems that you need resistance in both directions like the Road Kings? Any comments about Blistein shocks? John Tanzi

Bouncing 05 Allure

Re: Boucing on Hwy 90 out of Rapid City SD going East

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 62122
Stuart,

I do not know this, but I find it hard to believe that expensive shocks such as Konis are not dual action shocks. I wonder if yours are shot? I went to the Koni website and this is what it says:
"Our externally adjustable shock absorbers are the product of choice for motorhomes with large capacity Independent Front Suspensions (IFS). These shocks feature independent bump and rebound that give you control over large inputs and a smooth ride over highway roads. The external adjustment feature allows you to increase rebound force to compensate for wear or tailor the ride to your specific preference".

Note the bump and rebound.

Rich 2002 Magna