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winter at Tiger Run in Breckenridge, CO

Yahoo Message Number: 63110
This winter I plan to stay at Tiger Run for a month or two. I have a new to me '97 Intrigue, 36' one slide. I know I read on here with great interest the winter RV suggestions of some owner who has spent winter time there. There were specific guidelines and suggestions about what, where and how to add heat, protect pipes, disable ice maker etc.
Now, the problem is I made a note that this thread existed, that this post was important, thoughtful, and informative. However, I did not note the message number and I have spent too much time searching for it!
So, if you are the author or would be willing to share your thoughts on preparing for a winter month in very cold weather at high elevation, I would love to hear from you. If you have been or are planning to be at Tiger Run in winter even better! On list or off.
I have do have some experience in cold weather RV'ing but I am also know it was a good deal easier in a my small class C Lazy Daze!

Any help greatly appreciated.
Terry

'97 Intrigue 10392

Re: winter at Tiger Run in Breckenridge, CO

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 63124
Terry

I spent a week at Tiger Run a few winters ago and you will need to be prepared for everything to freeze to include the need to potentially add kerosene to your diesel fuel.
I have a 99 Intrigue and will tell you these coaches don't do well in cold weather. When the heat kicks off the coach gets cold very quickly. We always take additional electric heaters when we travel during winter months. Heat pumps will also freeze up when it get really cold. Bottom line is that life can be miserable living in a motor home when it is really cold.

Gene

Intrigue 10920

Re: winter at Tiger Run in Breckenridge, CO

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 63143
We stayed at Tiger Run right after taking delivery of our first Country Coach, a '98 Magna. I don't remember the date, but the temp got down to 10 degrees. The only problem we had was that the water pump froze, but that was due to a malfunctioning thermostat in the plumbing bay. As I recall, the interior temp stayed comfortable. You can see 20 degrees below zero in the winter at Tiger Run. One thing I do now if I am expecting temperatures that low is to us a drop cord light next to the water pump and in the refrigerator compartment. It goes without saying, use an incandescent light, not a CFL. It may be an overkill, but it does increase my comfort level. Also beware of the possibility of freezing the items in your storage bays.

I concur with the recommendation to have an electric heater or two.
I'm curios about the statement about the need to add kerosene to the diesel fuel. All the fuel you get in this area in the winter months is formulated for cold weather and I have not experienced that problem. Hopefully I never will.

Jim Biestek

'04 Intrigue 11783

Re: winter at Tiger Run in Breckenridge, CO

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 63147
Quote from: terry_wertz"

> This winter I plan to stay at Tiger Run for a month or two. I have a new to me '97 Intrigue, 36' one slide. I know I read on here with great interest the winter RV suggestions of some owner who has spent winter time there. There were specific guidelines and suggestions about what, where and how to add heat, protect pipes, disable ice maker etc.
Now, the problem is I made a note that this thread existed, that this post was important, thoughtful, and informative. However, I did not note the message number and I have spent too much time searching for it! > > So, if you are the author or would be willing to share your thoughts on preparing for a winter month in very cold weather at high elevation, I would love to hear from you. If you have been or are planning to be at Tiger Run in winter even better! On list or off.
> I have do have some experience in cold weather RV'ing but I am also know it was a good deal easier in a my small class C Lazy Daze! >

Any help greatly appreciated.
Terry

'97 Intrigue 10392
I live in Alaska and use my 99 Allure all year long. I have traveled from the lower 48 to Wasilla in January and I always attend Arctic Man in Summit lake Alaska with my CC. I have a single galley slide and propane forced air 45000 btu furnace. The heat pumps will not function below 28-30 f. I generally dry camp using only the propane furnace. I have been comfortable at -27f with interior temps at 70f I have only had one water freeze event in the galley sink which thawed later in the day and caused me no further problems. The furnace runs just about constant and be prepared to go through a lot of gas but I find my CC to be the best cold weather rig I have ever owned. I do carry a electric heater but never used it due to not wanting to run generator constantly. Make sure your ice-maker is serviced for cold weather- mine is disconnected- and monitor the temps in water bay. I obviously do not do external hookups in dry camping circumstances. Enjoy the winter, its the best time of all. David White 99 Allure 30349

Re: winter at Tiger Run in Breckenridge, CO

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 63174
Monaco's come with 110V electric heaters in the water bay. I think fan driven. This seems the way to go when plugged in. You can order one from a Monaco dealer, I was told. When boondocking (God forbid in subzero temps) or if you don't mind burning diesel when plugged in, the hydronic heater has its own thermostat for the water bay. Problem is that at least on my Magna, all there is down there are a couple of convective inline baseboard fin type heaters. Very inefficient.
If you installed an active fan driven heat exchanger like we have upstairs (available from Hurricane)down there I believe you would be good well below zero on diesel heat in the water bay. CC told me that my Magna water bay heat was engineered down to 10F. I once was down to zero ambient one night. It got down to 31 degrees down in the water bay by morning. Upstairs was fine.
I solve this problem by simply heading south at a civilized time...Migration...Its the latest thing. Too bad these things don't float and cross oceans. I could then simply "migrate" to the south of France or Spain for the winter, or why not the Greek islands?

Rich 2002 Magna

Re: winter at Tiger Run in Breckenridge, CO

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 63182
John, you would definitely want to have the hydronic heater on with the electric switch 100% of the time. That would provide heat to keep your AquaHot from freezing.

Lee Zaborowski

07 Intrigue 12153, Cat C-13

Re: winter at Tiger Run in Breckenridge, CO - kinda long follow up

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 63195
Thank you all for responding to the winter RV inquiry.
All your ideas help inform my preparation. I hear folks with varying opinions and comfort level with winter camping. I was discouraged, and encouraged by your responses.
I have winter camped in a smaller motorhome for shorter time periods and probably not as cold as Breckenridge CO in winter.
I do not have aquahot but have a "regular" forced air propane furnace.
As I began thinkng about this two obvious weak points in the CC were the location of the water pump and the ice maker supply line. I think the water bay is really not well suited to long term cold weather use anyway. It may be heated somewhat by the furnace, but is essentially uninsulated. Mine actually is open to the neighboring bay where the water filter is located. Without adding insulation and probably an additional heat source at the pump, I cannot imagine that my furnace would keep me from having freeze problems there. I am thinking about adding one inch beadboard type insulation to the bay doors and covering the water filter hole with a piece of water heater wrap insulation. Anyone added insulation to the water bay? think it is needed? will it help?
The other obvious poor design is the ice maker. I guess it makes sense if you never incur freezing temps but is really useless and poorly planned if you want to use your RV in freezing temps. I think my solution will be to remove it. That is not so easily accomplished as the supply line is behind My furnace. I don't see any easy access. Don't see any shut off so winterizing may be problematic too. Anyone else have trouble capping off that line in heated space?
I was thinking I would carry and add fuel additive to prevent gelling before getting up there then top up close to Breckenridge. Have any of your experienced fuel problems at low temps?

In my class C I used an insulated blanket between the cab and coach interior to keep heat from radiating out through the cab area. Anyone try to insulate the windshield area? I would guess that is like an open window in terms of heat loss.
My CC has a living room slide. I would like to be able to use it but also think it may create problems with snow load on the awning and opening the coach to more heat loss or cold air invasion.
How do you use your slides? put away at night? close based on weather conditions? leave it closed all the time?
I hear you.. I will use lots of propane. How much is a lot? some range of use in winter weather? I will be keeping the furnace on because it does throw hot air down in the water bay, but is some supplement advisable? electric? gas catalytic? Most campgrounds charge for electric for long term space renters. Any experience with the eclectric cost? vs. propane for auxiliary coach heat?

David, you seem to push the limits of winter RV use. Both in terms of temps and boondocking to boot. Any special tricks?
Not sure how much interest this thread has for everyone but I like it.
One of the best traits of motorcoach life for me is to be able to stay at that special place where no amount of money could get you a room. That means the ability to migrate to stay comfortable for sure. And to me, it means being able to be safe, comfortable and enjoy winters wonders. Another is the congenial attitude of other owners. I always learn from the collective knowledge base.

Thanks to all
Terry

'97 Intruige 10392

Re: winter at Tiger Run in Breckenridge, CO - kinda long follow up

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 63196
I am not much of a boondocker or cold weather camper, but was caught in Santa Fe for a few days when the temperature was right around 0* most of the day. To keep the water pump from freezing and to augment the heat in the bay, I went to town and bought a heating pad from Walgreens. You know, like you would put on a sore shoulder or for a headache. I used a 20 amp extension cord and plugged it into the outside electrical service and then draped the pad itself over the water pump. After doing that I never had a problem.

Brian Davis

'05 Intrigue OVTS
Coach #11901

Re: winter at Tiger Run in Breckenridge, CO - kinda long follow up

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 63198
I am no expert on cold weather, opting for the "drive south" method of surviving. However, in the last two years I have been in three blizzards, and while the temperature only got down to 10 degrees, the wind was howling about 40 MPH. Maybe my experience will help.
I find that bubble wrap silver insulation in the windshield helps A LOT, heat or cold. Of course I would recommend foam insulated plugs in the ceiling vents. Keep one vent cracked open about a half inch, and you will not have condensation issues.
The wind was a chore in itself, and I finally pulled my two slides in to better balance the load and give the wind less to grab on to. I was boondocking at the time, and my furnace ran about 50-60% of the time to keep the inside comfortable. I have a remote temp sensor in my water bay. Keeping the diesel furnace (Hurricane) thermostat at least 60 degrees will keep the bay above 35. Pulling the slides in did help a lot, as the area exposed to cold was reduced. Not necessary for comfort down to 15 or so in mine.
When I was on full hookup the temperature got down to about 20, and I was able to stay comfortable with two electric space heaters without running the diesel furnace. One of my electric space heaters (a Lasco tower with a LCD display and thermostat) does not like the modified sine wave my Xantrex inverter puts out, and will trip the breaker on the inverter. A separate 20 amp circuit (which my coach is wired for) works great. Wish I had heated floors.
The electric element in my water heater made plenty of hot water for ONE good shower at 20 degrees. The propane has to be called on if there is more than one person showering.
Granted, the temperature was not as extreme as what you anticipate, but there it is. Rockport or Corpus Christi look fine for December through March for me.

Jack Nichols 2003 Intrigue, 40', two slides. 11527

Re: winter at Tiger Run in Breckenridge, CO - kinda long follow up

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 63202
Brian,

Necessity is the mother of invention. These are the stories from which we all learn! Thanks
Terry

'97 Intrigue 10392

Re: winter at Tiger Run in Breckenridge, CO - kinda long follow up

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 63214
Jack,

I have been debating Reflectix in the windshield. I used it on the windows in My Lazy Daze class C and I believe it made a big difference as well. The other choice would be some kind of insulating curtain.
Yes, forgot to mention the vents! I will have insulating plugs in there. I have a few remote thermometers and think one that resides by the water pump would be a wise choice.

Thanks for your information Jack. Migration does have its merits! Terry

'97 Intrigue 10392

Re: winter at Tiger Run in Breckenridge, CO - kinda long follow up

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 63217
Terry,

We wintered in Vermont with the coldest being 20 below and got about 10 feet of snow that winter. We can share alot with you, but would rather if you called us.
I will say that the hardest for me is that once the temps got to single digits, the insides of my cabinets started frosting, so all winter the cabinet doors had to remain open.
Call us.....

Bob and Debbie Elster
'99 Magna #5728

Re: winter at Tiger Run in Breckenridge, CO - kinda long follow up

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 63219
Terry,

We winter in the Salt Lake City area to ski. We do several things to keep from freezing various components: We have a 40W 110V light bulb in the outside refrigerator compartment to keep the ice maker water line warm.
We have a mechanics trouble light with a 40 or 60W bulb in the plumbing bay to keep the dump valves warm.
We have a 40W bulb in the compartment where the water pump resides. The trouble light and the water pump bulbs are plugged into a multi- outlet surge protector that is plugged into the 30A outlet on the RV park electrical post.
We have a water hose wrapped with electric heat tape plugged into the RV park post.
We have a 60W light bulb near the water filter in the basement bay.
We have a 60W light bulb in the other basement bay, just to keep the stuff in there from freezing.
We have wireless temperature sensors in the water pump compartment and the plumbing bay to monitor the temps.
Our temperatures are normally not quite as severe as you will encounter at Breck, but with 50A service you should be able to run a couple of ceramic heaters, run your tile floor heat and your water heater on electric (we do).
We keep both of our roof vents opened a small amount to allow the moisture to escape. If it gets below 15F we will close one vent to conserve heat.
I think that about covers it, BUT, TO US, A VERY IMPORTANT SAFETY ITEM: I have a set of keys for the towed vehicle and the motor home in the BEDSIDE TABLE in case a fire should break out in the front of the coach and we have to "bail out" of one of the bedroom windows into the sub-freezing cold. Would be nice to be able to get in out of the cold.

Have fun,
Brad Ward

2000 Magna 5916

Re: winter at Tiger Run in Breckenridge, CO - kinda long follow up

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 63225
I forgot to mention (probably put the experience out of my mind) that I have a heat tape along my fresh water hose, enclosed both in ¾ inch foam tubing. If it was REALLY cold I would probably just disconnect and drain the hose, only using it to fill the tank when needed.
I also have a trouble light in the water bay, right beside the passive heater used by the Hurricane diesel furnace. The light is encased in a protective frame, so no burning of plastic or possibility of breaking, and it is plugged into a "cube" that turns electricity on about 40 degrees. I set the water bay thermostat at about 35, and my idea is to use only electricity to heat the coach, minimizing diesel use. My electricity was free when I was in that freezing weather, so you see my plan.
I have a "belt and suspenders" orientation on important things like freezing of expensive stuff, and I have been safe so far. I love the mountains in winter, but after about a week in the snow I am ready to get to someplace warm. Renting condos work well for me. I will probably never do that again either.

Good luck with that. Hope I have helped a little.

Jack Nichols, 2003 Intrigue 11527

Re: winter at Tiger Run in Breckenridge, CO - kinda long follow up

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 63229
Jack,

The "cube" intrigued me (no pun). Found one immediately at Amazon.
Amazon.com : Farm Innovators Model TC-3 Cold Weather Thermo Cube Thermostatic...
Thought others might be interested in seeing this high tech device. What a handy idea! Terry

'97 Intrigue 10392
As an Amazon Associate Country Coach Owners Forum earns from qualifying purchases.

Re: winter at Tiger Run - THANKS

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 63326
Thanks to all who took time to give thoughtful response on and off list! I feel warmer and more secure already!

Terry

'97 Intrigue 10392