Skip to main content ↑ ↓
Topic: advice for charger (Read 845 times) previous topic - next topic
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

advice for charger

Yahoo Message Number: 68368
Hi All,

We are looking to install a charger for the chassis battery (yes found out the hard way this is NOT my old Foretravel...), if you are so inclined, please advise on what might be the optimal way to go for this unit. Have gone through archives here but still not clear what will likely be best for us; I typically use the coach 2-3 weekends/month from late March -mid Nov, then basically it is only exercised till spring.

Thank you in advance!

Carrie Chase
07 Tribute 81075

Looking forward to upcoming spring dog shows with the corgis and getting out of the driveway sooner than that.

Re: advice for charger

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 68371
You're problem is a common complaint - echo charger not maintaining the coach battery charge while stored even if it's working properly. If you read the literature that came with it closely you'll find that it's not meant to charge the coach battery completely and at best will keep a good coach battery up to about 1.5 V lower than the house bank which is presumably being maintained by your inverter/charger at the float level, about 13.7-.8.

I use a Deltron Battery Tender plus which I connect directly to the coach battery terminals when stored. I store it connected to shore power so the inverter charger keeps the house battery bank at float status ( 13.7- 13.8 VDC) My Echo charger works but without the supplementary charger on the coach battery it gradually drops to about 12.5 VDC. The echo charger maintains it about 1.5 VDC lower than the house batteries just like it's supposed to but I think it's better to maintain the coach batteries at closer to full charge as long as you check the electrolyte level once in awhile and you're not boiling it. The Battery Tender is a 4 stage charger and holds the coach battery at approximately 13.3 VDC. I've tried a smaller Schneider battery minder but while that works fine for a smaller car battery it never gets the coach D8 start battery higher than about 12.8 VDC which is still better than the echo charger.

I've heard some have had trouble with the Deltron's failing for some reason so if you get one get it from a battery supply place and hang on to your receipt so they can back up the warrantee rather than you having to return it to the manufacturer - hardly worth the trouble. They cost about $54 at an auto parts or battery supply store. It also doesn't hurt to check the voltage of all the batteries individually with a voltmeter occasionally just to make sure it's where you expect it to be.

Jim M

'02 Intrigue #11410 ISL 400.

Re: advice for charger

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 68377
Jim, my Echo Charger Owners Guide says that the maximum output of the EC is 14.4 volts when the input is 14.4 or higher. It will then enter the float stage. This means that the EC WILL achieve and maintain a fully charged chassis battery.
This is also my experience with the EC on my coach. I think you have a bad EC. Where did you get the info that the EC output would be 1.5 volts below the input voltage?

Thanks.

George in Birmingham
'04 Allure 31038
George in Birmingham
2003 Magna 6298

Re: advice for charger

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 68379
My Echo Charger has quit working three times in the last 5 years and each time I found one of the inline 20 AMP sloblo fuses blown. They are located in the EC wires about a foot down stream of the EC. I think a spark caused by disconnecting or reconnecting the battery cables during maintenance could have been the cause. When the EC is working properly, my engine start battery always measures above 13 volts while plugged into shore power. The converter keeps the house batteries charged.

Larry, 03 Allure, 30856

Re: advice for charger

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 68382
My one year old starter battery has always JUST managed to start my C12. I hooked up a battery minder charger to it a few days ago and went to start the coach this morning in 45 degree weather and the engine cranked over faster than ever. I just ordered a magnum echo charger and I am done fooling around with the original echo charger that can't be dialed in like the Magnum can. Hopefully this will solve the lack luster starting.

Dallas 2004 intigue C12

Re: advice for charger

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 68390
I recognize what you are saying and agree in theory that you are exactly right but the manual also has a graph of the output (amps) of the echo charger relative to the difference in voltage between the supply (house) bank and the coach/start battery which is to me a little confusing in that it doesn't show very well what happens when the coach battery voltage should be when you get to the float status but that the output drops to 0 very fast at a difference below 1.5 V. I do know that starting with a whole new set of batteries, my coach on shore power with the inverter/charger floating the house batteries at 13.7 -.8 VDC my coach battery drops very gradually to fluctuate between 12.5 -.7 VDC and stays there. This is with daily checking the voltage at the terminals of both coach and house batteries over a 3 week period. The disconnect switches are on but no lights or other stuff is running.

My impression is that an "echo charger" is really a controlled isolator and since they aren't 100% efficient compared to a solid wired connection like exists with our battery boost solenoid the output to the coach battery has to be less than the house battery bank. It's controlled in the sense that it shuts down if the house battery bank is below a certain voltage (12.8?) and also limits the max voltage to (14.4) in case the inverter charger is putting out too much to the house battery bank. In the case of my echo charger this is between 1.2 and 1.5 volts less. Maybe my echo charger is defective but I never checked the voltage serially over a relatively log period of time before so I don't know if its operating characteristics changed. As it happens I do have a spare but it was easier just to hook up a battery minder type of maintenance charger which maintains the coach battery at 13.3 VDC without any indication that it's gassing.

Thanks for your input.

Jim M

'02 Intrigue #11410 ISL 400

Re: advice for charger

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 68391
Thanks, Larry. I've checked both fuses on the input and output of my echo charger as well as how the leads are hooked up to and they are all OK. Im glad to hear your coach battery is maintained at 13+VDC while hooked up to shore power which is the way I think it ought to work. Unfortunately, mine, during a fairly long period of daily voltage checks holds the coach battery at 12.5 - .7 VDC. I've got a spare echo charger but it is easier just to use the Battery Tender type of charge I also have.

Jim M

'02 Intrigue #311410 OS; 400

Re: advice for charger

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 68398
A few lead-acid battery facts:

A FULLY CHARGED lead-acid battery will measure about 12.67 Volts when measured at the battery terminals with a good quality VOM (Fluke makes a good one)...
The difference between the 12.67 volt "full Charge" and the 13.8 "float voltage" is a "Surface charge" or "False charge"...
If the battery is fully charged and the float voltage is removed, the "Surface charge/false charge" will dissapate quickly (within a few hours) and the battery will stabilize at its fully charged voltage of 12.67 Volts.
The "Echo Charger" is a neat little device that if wired properly and working as designed will maintain your chassis battery bank at near full charge...
If you measure your battery voltage at the battery terminals with a good quality meter and it measures 12.5/12.7 volts, the battery is near full charge... If it won't start the engine, you have problems other than the battery...

buck

k7wn, '99magna5653, Cat C10, Allison HD4060

====================================================

Re: advice for charger

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 68403
Our coach originally had a Xantrex Echo Charger and when it failed we replaced it with a Magnum Secondary battery charger which we like much better. I have additional details on our blog http://www.rvschooner.com - including our replacement of the original inverter (also Xantrex with a Magnum charger).

Re: advice for charger

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 68407
Thanks for your contribution. It helps in understanding the significance of whatever reading we are getting when checking our battery voltage. As a practical matter, however, much of the time when we check our batteries it will be done while the inverter/ charger and the so called echo charger are working so that the somewhat higher readings are to be expected.

Part of the problem with the echo charger is that the manual seems to carefully avoid mentioning just exactly what voltage readings one should expect on the coach battery when a coach is stored for an extended period on shore power with the inverter/charger charging the house bank and the echo charger bleeding off current to keep the coach battery in a suitable state of charge. It's not clear to me whether that voltage under those circumstances should be based on a "fully charged at rest" reading for the coach battery or on one that takes into consideration the surface charge. The statement that the echo charger "tracks the house bank voltage" is helpful but inadequate when trying to determine if the echo charger is functioning properly. Why can't they come up with specific sets of numbers or at least a maximum voltage difference that is acceptable once the system stabilizes?

Apparent insufficient maintenance charging of the coach battery under extended storage conditions appears to be a pretty common complaint and it would really be helpful if Xantrex would supply us with what the coach battery voltage should be reading when the house batteries are being maintained at whatever voltage the inverter/charger is set to provide at float for the house battery type being charged.

Jim M

'02 Intrigue #11410 ISL 400

Re: advice for charger

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 68409
If there is a battery temperature sensor in the system, then the list of what is correct gets very long. Basically go by float voltage. That is 13.2 most times, after things are totally charged and 70 to 80 degree day. Cold days will make the float voltage go up to over 14, if temperature compensated. Hot days will reduce the float voltage. The echo charger will keep the chassis batteries within a few tenths of volts of the house. If the house is 13.2 and chassis is 12.5, echo not working. If the chassis battery never raises while plugged in the echo is not working.

Right now my readings are: Battery temp. 49 deg. charging at 2 amps. House batteries 13.8. Chassis 13.4. 3 to 4 tenths should be the difference.

Leonard

97' Magna 5418

Re: Xantrex echo charger replacement

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 68410
A recent post mentioned replacing their Xantrex with a Magnum secondary battery charger. The correct name is Magnum Smart Battery Combiner (ME-SBC). It's function according to the manual appears to be similar to the Xantrex except that it has more programmable options, an accessory solenoid control to combine banks if desired, made in the US and is American company rather than China/Canadian. The price is similar.

Just browsing the attached pdf manual now.

Jim M

'02 Intrigue #11410 ISL 400

Re: advice for charger

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 68414
"much of the time when we check our batteries it will be done while the inverter/ charger and the so called echo charger are working so that the somewhat higher readings are to be expected."

Jim...

If you check the battery voltage with the inverter/charger active, you will be reading the voltage put out by the inverter/charger, not the battery voltage... To check the battery voltage, the charging system must be turned off or disconnected...
I fully agree that the Echo Charger manual could be much more informative... but since it is not, I just now turned off my Inverter/Charger and then measured the voltage at the terminals of both the chassis battery and the house battery with the VOM... I did not give the batteries time to dissipate the surface/false charge... My house battery measured 13.8V and my chassis battery measured 12.9V... Or about 1 volt difference...
If I disconnected the batteries and let them sit for a few hours to let the surface/false charge dissipate, they would both measure approximately 12.67 volts, which is the voltage of a fully charged lead-acid battery... Once the batteries reach the 12.67V, they will stabilize and the voltage will drop much more slowly due to the fact that you are now discharging the battery and not just dissipating the surface/false charge...
If you store your coach on shore power with the inverter/charger turned on, and if the the Echo Charger is working as designed and is properly wired into the coach system, both your house and chassis batteries should be maintained at virtually full charge...
All of my statements above will hold true only if the batteries are in good shape... If they are weak, sulfated, etc., they are gonna go down no matter what you do...

buck

k7wn, '99magna5653, Cat C10, Allison HD4060

Re: advice for charger

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 68415
Jim, the graph is telling you how much current will flow at variant voltage differences. So, as the chassis battery voltage approaches the house battery voltage the current flow will drop to float levels. This is a good thing. I think you may have read the chart to imply a 1.5 volt difference rather than a 1.5 amp current.
Again, it seems clear that your EchoCharger is not functioning properly. I was just at my coach and took voltage on both chassis and house batteries. The only connection between the two of them is the EC. I have not driven the coach or been plugged in for over a week. It is a bright sunny day and my solar panels are doing their job. House batteries read 13.7 VDC. Chassis batteries read 13.6 VDC. That is how the EC is designed to function.
I know your battery charger will work for you but it will not work for any of us that do not have access to shore power. It is important that people know how the thing works and a 1.5 VDC difference is not how it works. Otherwise we would all have dead chassis batteries.

George in Birmingham
'04 Allure 31038
George in Birmingham
2003 Magna 6298