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Does idling do harm?

Yahoo Message Number: 68428
We are staying in a park in Arizona for six months. Always thought that we were supposed to start our motor every few weeks and let it run for awhile. Then I read a few weeks ago that idling causes problems. Not sure whether we should start it up now and then and let it run for a few minutes...or not. Sure don't want to cause harm. All opinions welcome! Thanks in advance.
Sue 51672

2006 Inspire 360

Re: Does idling do harm?

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 68429
Diesel's like to work, not loaf. Idling is bad for a diesel. Will cause the rings to carbon up and reduce engine performance. Can cause injectors to carbon and plug. Also get some raw diesel blow-by the rings into the oil. Best for diesel is to warm up 10 minutes and then get on the road. Cool down at end of day to cool off the turbo is very important. Better to let it set and when started run her under load.

Leonard Kerns
97' Magna 5418

Re: Does idling do harm?

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 68431
i agree , i only start the diesel when i want to go for a trip, starting running for a short time with out a load isn't good. 1000 to 1500RPM after warm it better than idling, but not as good as a load on the road...when i lived in my big rig we had to run the engine to stay warm in winter & cool in summer, just run at 1000 to 1200 RPM while parked..4hrs or 8 hrs at a time bob '02 magna 6028

Re: Does idling do harm?

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 68437
Sue

Not the expert but the vehicle also needs to move for tires, seals and I am sure other issues. I also believe that the engine needs to get to operating temperature. I hate it but when I am parked for a couple of months I force myself to go for a ride.
I usually have some repair or I top off fuel.

Dan 2006 Allure 31348

Re: Does idling do harm?

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 68439
Hi Sue --

I have an Inspire 06 Inspire 360 too - just got it 2 months ago -- I am parked in Newport dunes RV park in newport beach, ca. until May 1. I, too, had been told to let the engine run (and the generator too), but was told to run the RPMS up to 1000, to not let it just sit and idle on its own. I would be interested in hearing what you further hear on this subject.... all of this is new to me, Sue - first time in a motorhome and I am on my own, so this is all brand new stuff for me!!! have a great day sue

whereabouts in Arizona are u??
Jan

Re: Does idling do harm?

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 68440
Dan -- what do u think of running the RPMs up to 1000 - does that help with the idling procedure? Couple people mentioned that to me and also the person I bought my coach from - have an 06 Inspire 360 Davinci. jan

06 inspire 51898

Re: Does idling do harm?

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 68441
I agree , usually run about 2 minutes from start up and then set to high idle. Usually just under 1000 rpm. ...the worst thing for a diesel engine is starting or stopping.
There are a lot of forces working against each other to accomplish either one.
AL

00 affinity #5851

Re: Does idling do harm?

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 68442
My 1998 Prevost with a Detroit Series 60 is not affected by idling but not a slow speed idle. In fact, the Prevost has a hi-speed idle button that once you start the engine and its up to full oil pressure you can press the fast-idle button. The rpm's go to 1000 and I've been informed that even a half hour idle will never hurt the Detroit. But don't let it sit at the slow speed idle for a half hour. This has been confirmed at various Prevost and Detroit seminars that I have attended. And that high speed button is a Prevost button, not something that CC added.

bill 'n barb, cc 1998 prevost 40' xl #30365

Re: Does idling do harm?

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 68444
From reading the engine manufacturers literature and practice I find idling for 10 minutes will not warm up a diesel; all you have to do to prove that is look at your gauges. They may move up a bit but will not get anywhere near the ~200 degrees where modern diesels operate. On idle insufficient heat is produced to fully warm up because the cooling system is designed to handle the heat produced when the engine is working which is orders of magnitude more than at idle. You could idle all day and never reach normal operating temperature. The engine will stay cool, unburned fuel will wash down the cylinders and contaminate the oil. In temperate weather there is no reason to wait before moving; note I said moving not heavy loading. Driving a short distance before high speed use is a better warm-up than idling. It exercises the engine and the entire drive-train getting all the lubricants warmed up so they can do their jobs. For nearly all cases, the process of breaking camp, leaving the campground/RV park and heading for the interstate is just about right. As the engine (and transmission) warm up increase speed to your normal travel methods.

High idle for a minute or two is appropriate, for my rig it takes a minute or so to refill the suspension after it has been dumped. On our C9 Cat setting the cruise control to "on" and pressing and holding the "set" button will raise the idle slowly to about 1,000 rpm. When the air pressure relief valve "pops" and the jacks are fully retracted it's time to go.

While I'm on my soapbox, the idea that diesels use almost no fuel on idle is an old wives's tale as well. It takes fuel to run an engine, any engine, period. Most of us have Silverleaf of one version or another. If you set the mileage calculator to zero, drive 20-30 miles and then just sit at idle I guarantee you can watch the mileage average drop as fuel is consumed. If this old saw was true being caught in traffic wouldn't hurt mileage either - after all that is lots of idle time. Idling wastes fuel.

Every once in a while we are awakened in an RV park by a nearby diesel owner who believes the only way to warm up an engine is race the p--- out of it for 10 minutes. I don't know about the average CC owner but that is like running fingernails down the chalkboard to my ears.

Bottom line - read the engine manufacturer's manuals and publications, each has websites with lots of good, science and engineering based information. We live in a highly technical age, I've had to change my beliefs based on measured results and testing and I am sure more changes are coming. Our engines are tough but we can kill/hurt them with the wrong advice. Unless you are parked for 6 or more months I wouldn't start anything unless I needed it to do some work - as that is what it is designed to do, not idle. If that makes youu nervous, go for a drive every month. I am sure we can up with some good excuses, like getting the rig washed.
I urge you to not believe a word I have said. Read it for yourselves in the manufacturers' materials and the advice given in the various magazines and at FMCA, Good Sam and other rallies. Escapees is a good group too but not as technically oriented.

Bob (rthandren@...)
'05 Inspire 51178

Re: Does idling do harm?

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 68446
I winter in Yuma AZ and summer in Quincy WA. For the 3 or 4 months I'm there, i do not run my diesel engine or generator. For those who subscribe to the practice of warming your engines periodically, what are the detrimental effects for not doing so? Where can this practice be verified by manufacturer's literature?

Jim E

Re: Does idling do harm?

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 68448
My CC manual say if not used for a couple of weeks and the Cat operation and maintenance Manual states over several weeks.

But, If your engine is out of operation and use is not expected short term, precautions should be taken to protect your engine from damage and ensure proper operation when you return to full production. If an engine is not in use, oil can run off the cylinder walls, piston rings, main bearings, connecting rod bearings, crankshaft, gears, and other parts that normally receive lubrication. This lack of lubricant allows corrosion to begin to appear on the metal, especially in areas of high humidity.

Preserve your investment by following the engine storage and preservation procedures recommended by Caterpillar. Your Cat
® dealer has all the supplies and reference material you will need to preserve your investment.
http://catoilandgas.cat.com/cda/files/1823203/7/PEHJ0241.pdf

Re: Does idling do harm?

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 68449
My Caterpillar Operation & Maintenance manual says, "Special precautions should be taken for engines remaining out of service for prolonged time periods." It does not define "prolonged time periods". What it says is "Refer to Storage Procedures For Caterpillar Products, SEHS9031 for more detailed information on engine storage". I can't find SEHS9031. The whole problem is the word "storage". What does that mean? Your reference to " http://catoilandgas.cat.com/cda/files/1823203/7/PEHJ0241.pdf" does not clear that up.

Jim E

Re: Does idling do harm?

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 68450

Much farm equipment sits for nearly a year from one job to the next without even fuel stabilizers. Unless there is a clear problem with a particular location (high heat and humiidity and known fuel eating bugs/mold endemic) even that isn't needed. They start right up and last decades. IMHO much is from folks trying to sell everything from treatments to service. Make the owner nervous and sell, sell, sell
New car manufacturers now explicitly state things like paint and fabric treatments are not neeed. They also provide two maintenance schedules, and the dealers always determine you need that oil changed every 3,000 miles no matter how you drive.
Diesel engine manufacturers have spent millions improving the metallurgy and design of their engines to make them trouble free and reliable. Why spend bucks burning fuel when they don't even recommend it?

Bob (rthandren@...)
'05 Inspire 51178

Re: Does idling do harm?

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 68451
Jim

My information is based only on discussions with service techs. I have been told that there are oils in the composition of tires designed to prevent cracking and deterioration that are brought to the surface by the tire rolling down the road. I believe that my Onan generator operations manual is very specific regarding periodic operation and the need to run the generator under load.

I believe that experienced service techs are better qualified to recommend operations practices for a RV than the manufactures manual. I could give you numerous examples of where the recommended service is light years from reality. The over prescribe probably to cover the rears.

Dan 2006 Allure 31348

Re: Does idling do harm?

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 68452
I rebuilt cat engines and components and have seen first had what can happen. RUST. To the point of pitting metal. But that was seen on heavy equipment engines that set sometimes for a year of longer. The worst one was a engine that had set unused for a couple of years, it was bad. Water would condense and setting on oil lubed metal and start rusting. For short term not running in dryer climates, not something I would worry about. For close to a year in humid conditions, then ?????? Think one could kind of tell by how damp the interior of the coach becomes of lack of use in storage.

But there are other things on our coaches other then engines. All the running gear. We take ours out once a month and make a 40 mile round trip. Warms everything up real nice and keeps everything lubed. Run the gen for .5 hrs. as well at the same time. This is so much better then a cold start and idle. As others have noted, takes work to warm up a diesel as should be done.

Think how much fuel one can buy for a transmission control valve hung from lack of use. Or fuel injection problems or any number of problems that will show up from lack of use. Running once a month or so, is just like buying insurance for your drive train. Small investment to cover big ticket items.

Leonard Kerns
97' Magna 5418

Re: Does idling do harm?

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 68453
Jan

If I can't bully myself into moving my backup plan is a couple of minutes at idle and then increase the idle to about 1000 until the temperature pickups. I also have a hydro-hot with engine pre-heat which I will also use.

Dan 2006 Allure 31348

Re: Does idling do harm?

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 68454
One thing I should have added: Always impressed with Cat, they painted the inside of all metal castings to stop rusting from a setting unit. Don't know of anyone else that does that, sure others do, just don't know who.

Leonard

Re: Does idling do harm?

Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 68456
Dan,

Without getting in a p----g contest, i disagree. Of all people, i would never put much creditability in what a service tech has to say. You ask a question, you always get a answer. No one in their position likes to say "I don't know".
Don't know what tires has to do with this subject. Give me a little more info on where the Onan manual specifies periodic operation of the generator.

Jim E

Re: Does idling do harm?

Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 68457
Leonard,

I want comment on your experience with cat engines, but i certainly would question the fact that diesel engines rust in the context that this discussion addresses. we are talking a few months, not years. I will never agree that my Cat C10 is going to get rusty because I set here in Yuma for 5 or 6 months without running. The same thing holds true for everything associated with a MH, suspension, generator and etc.

Jim E

Re: Does idling do harm?

Reply #20 –
Yahoo Message Number: 68458
Jim, I don't know what generator you have partially because you don't identify your coach or post your coach number. But, I have done your research and find the recommendation for exercise on page 11 of the owners manual for my HDKAK.

George in Birmingham
'04 Allure 31038
George in Birmingham
2003 Magna 6298

Re: Does idling do harm?

Reply #21 –
Yahoo Message Number: 68459
Ken here I agree with Lenord, Working at Cat The Fleet Trucks had a Idle Time enabeld to shut down the diesel, Our Drivers in Florida liked to Run the A/C when they off loaded eqpt. Thousands of Gallons are saved allowing me and coworkers to get some Retirement from our Dealer. I run our coach every other month at High Idle for 20 min and relevel the coach and do a walkaround and check for leaks or noise. Its up to You.

Ken 99 Allure 30356

Re: Does idling do harm?

Reply #22 –
Yahoo Message Number: 68460
George,

I have an SOB with the HDKAK generator. In my service manual, after "Exercise", there are instructions on "Storage", which is defined as "---when the genset cannot be exercised regularly and will be idle for more than 120 days". In my manual there are six items you should perform when storing. !. Turn the genset circuit breaker off, 2. Change air filter if dirty, 3. change engine oil, 4. Disconnect battery cables, 5. Plug exhaust pipe and 6. Close fuel supply valve. Now, if I don't do any of these things, which component of my genset could possible be damaged? You see the two stepping here? Instead of doing the procedure for "infrequent" use, I'll just do the "storing" procedure. I would bet this is better than running your genset, once a month, for two hours under half load.
Oh, BTW, my SOB is a 1997 Beaver Marquis. At one time I owned a 1994 CC Concept. Had it for about 6 years and used the same operating procedures for it with no problems.

Jim E

Re: Does idling do harm?

Reply #23 –
Yahoo Message Number: 68461
Jim, in my manual on page 11 is the heading "Exercising the Genset" which says

"Exercise the genset at least 2 hours each month if use is infrequest.
It goes on to tell you how to exercise it and even recommends the best way to structure the two hours per month of exercise. This section immediately precedes "Storing the Genset" section which begins on the next page and is the same as yours.

I suggest that you look back one page in your manual.
So, I think you can store it or you can exercise it but the manufacturer suggests that you do not just let it sit without one or the other. Frankly, for me, exercising is much simpler than storing.

George in Birmingham
'04 Allure 31038
George in Birmingham
2003 Magna 6298

Re: Does idling do harm?

Reply #24 –
Yahoo Message Number: 68463
Jim,

You need to read my post more careful, I stated much more then 5 or 6 months. For 5 or 6 months in the dry of Yuma I would not worry. For 5 or 6 months in Oregon's winter I would worry. Just the other day I was under ours and water was dripping off of everything. And it is in an enclosed cover. Temperature change and dampness coming up from the ground I guess. Caused me to open one end for more circulation. When you see that much dampness under the coach, makes one unhappy and wonder just how far into things it goes. Five or six months in that wet of conditions would cause lots of problems, that is only one reason we take it out every month and get it good and hot. It is kind of the same thing with keeping tires longer then 5 years, how much of a gambler is one? A little proactive maintenance is cheap compared to what the repair bills can be.

Leonard