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Norcold 1200 Refrigerator

Yahoo Message Number: 70335
The Norcold 1200LRIM 4-door refrigerator that came with my 2006 Allure and has worked flawlessly for the past 5 years. I usually leave the setting at "6" and have solid frozen food and cold refrigerator temps in all sorts of weather. So when I read the glowing reports from those who have upgraded to the Samsung residential unit, I was not eager to replace my trusty unit.
But alas, I decided to make the switch, inspired by the larger unit and claimed higher performance. I was not concerned about the overheating/fire hazard issues I had heard about with the Norcold since I had the recall parts installed and had no problems with the unit.
I decided to pull the Norcold unit out myself to have the unit available for resale at home. The new Samsung will be installed by OMCC in a couple of weeks.
When I pulled the unit out, I was surprised to find evidence of overheating and corrosion on the upper part of the cooling assembly. The cooling tubes on the upper third of the unit had significant corrosion and rusting, indicating to me a pending failure. The tubes are surrounded by thick fiberglass covered with an aluminum foil type outer layer. The tubes had overheated to the point that they had burned through both the fiberglass and the outer metal layers. Why they did not catch fire, I do not know, but this was a disaster waiting to happen.
I will upload pictures to the website shortly so you can see the problem yourself. None of this is visible from the outside door vent. The unit must be physically removed from the cabinet to inspect for this damage. I strongly urge owners of this refrigerator to take the time to thoroughly inspect their unit. Remember, mine was working perfectly and had the recall parts installed.

Al

2006 Allure 31440
Heading to Oregon

Re: Norcold 1200 Refrigerator

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 70337
Al,

That's good advice! Owner/operator be warned. My Norcold crap out wasn't quiet as extreme as yours but dangerous nonetheless. This is serious stuff and shouldn't be sloughed off. It also marks HUGE irresponsibility by gas absorption frig makers. Sadly expected in an unregulated industry. Domestic appliances mfgs operating in proximity to apple pie and motherhood would never get away with passing these dangers into a home. The Norcold recall is nothing more than a band aid and has expanded into a recall of recalls. What's needed is proper design followed by maintenance and inspection. I've documented my experiences here:

http://www.muniac.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=68#Post68 At the bottom, just above Conclusions, are a few PDF links that go into technical details about fire events and the gas absorption refrigeration processes. It's all very sobering stuff. Please be careful everyone.

At 01:41 PM 4/19/2011, you wrote:

Quote
>

The Norcold 1200LRIM 4-door refrigerator that >came with my 2006 Allure and has worked >flawlessly for the past 5 years. I usually leave >the setting at "6" and have solid frozen food >and cold refrigerator temps in all sorts of >weather. So when I read the glowing reports from >those who have upgraded to the Samsung >residential unit, I was not eager to replace my trusty unit.

But alas, I decided to make the switch, inspired >by the larger unit and claimed higher >performance. I was not concerned about the >overheating/fire hazard issues I had heard about >with the Norcold since I had the recall parts >installed and had no problems with the unit.

I decided to pull the Norcold unit out myself to >have the unit available for resale at home. The >new Samsung will be installed by OMCC in a couple of weeks.

When I pulled the unit out, I was surprised to >find evidence of overheating and corrosion on >the upper part of the cooling assembly. The >cooling tubes on the upper third of the unit had >significant corrosion and rusting, indicating to >me a pending failure. The tubes are surrounded >by thick fiberglass covered with an aluminum >foil type outer layer. The tubes had overheated >to the point that they had burned through both >the fiberglass and the outer metal layers. Why >they did not catch fire, I do not know, but this >was a disaster waiting to happen.

I will upload pictures to the website shortly so >you can see the problem yourself. None of this >is visible from the outside door vent. The unit >must be physically removed from the cabinet to >inspect for this damage. I strongly urge owners >of this refrigerator to take the time to >thoroughly inspect their unit. Remember, mine >was working perfectly and had the recall parts installed.

Al

2006 Allure 31440
Heading to Oregon

Best - Scott

2006 Allure 430 #31349
(Bus-Stead Lemon)

Re: Norcold 1200 Refrigerator

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 70338
Al, I have an inspection camera that has a 3 foot wand. Would this item be able to inspect the burned places you described? That way a removal might be averted. Just a thought. The camera was cheap at HF and it has a color monitor.

Ernie Ekberg
Weatherford, Tx 76086
817-475-3991
www.ernieekbergflooring.net

Re: Norcold 1200 Refrigerator

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 70339
I do not want to minimize the tragedy of a coach fire. Most of us on this board have an ammonia-absorption type refrigerator and are likely to be reading these posts with concern. We do need to be vigilant and wary. I'm one of those.
I've done all the recalls and have installed a fire extinguisher set-up in the external compartment. My wife and I talk frequently about the escape plan should a fire strike.
However, having said that, I'm not sure panic is necessarily called for. I read that there are over 8.2 million RVs in the country. Recent statistics show there were, typically, 3,550 RV fires across those 8+ million RVs a year. Also there are 5 primary reasons for an RV fire. You can read about this in -

cjbfire.com/ManSample.pdf

Put another way, that means if you lined up 2,250 RVs, one of them would be involved in a fire from one of 5 causes. I guess it all depends on whether you like those odds or not.
I'm not offering any opinions or suggesting what folks should do, just offering some facts for your consideration. Some perspective is always helpful.

Lee
--

Lee Zaborowski

07 Intrigue 12153, Cat C-13

Re: Norcold 1200 Refrigerator

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 70343
Quote
Quote from: Lee Zaborowski

Lee,

Your odds are indeed impressive----so long as you are not the odd man out.
Lyle Wetherholt
04 Intrigue 11740
> I do not want to minimize the tragedy of a coach fire. Most of us on this > board have an ammonia-absorption type refrigerator and are likely to be > reading these posts with concern. We do need to be vigilant and wary. I'm > one of those.
> I've done all the recalls and have installed a fire extinguisher set-up in > the external compartment. My wife and I talk frequently about the escape > plan should a fire strike.
> However, having said that, I'm not sure panic is necessarily called for. I > read that there are over 8.2 million RVs in the country. Recent statistics > show there were, typically, 3,550 RV fires across those 8+ million RVs a > year. Also there are* 5 primary reasons for an RV fire*. You can read about > this in -

cjb*fire*.com/ManSample.pdf
> Put another way, that means if you lined up 2,250 RVs, one of them would be > involved in a fire from one of 5 causes. I guess it all depends on whether > you like those odds or not.
> I'm not offering any opinions or suggesting what folks should do, just > offering some facts for your consideration. Some perspective is always > helpful.

Lee

--

Lee Zaborowski

07 Intrigue 12153, Cat C-13

Re: Norcold 1200 Refrigerator

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 70345
Lyle, these are not my odds . . . just the facts, as I was careful to state.
There is a long list of deadly, dreaded things with shorter odds. Those are higher on my list and I think/worry more about.

Lee

Re: Norcold 1200 Refrigerator

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 70349
How many of the 8 mil get driven, or even touched each year? I expect the number of fires among the active RV's is quite a bit greater than the fires in the dormant ones.

Mike '03 Lexa

Re: Norcold 1200 Refrigerator

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 70353
Ernie,

I believe it would if it has a light. Remove the outside inspection door and you will see the bottom of the coils with two pipes running up the right (from the rear) side of the unit. Follow these pipes up as far as you can. My damage was between 28" and 48" from the bottom of the unit. Or if you can snake around the left side past the coils, this area is open all the way to the top. You could go up and look back to the right.

Al

2006 Allure 31440

Re: Norcold 1200 Refrigerator

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 70354
The refrigerator is now available for parts. Let me know what you need - doors, shelves, brackets, bins, etc.

Al

2006 Allure 31440

Re: Norcold 1200 Refrigerator

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 70362
Good point, Lee however, of those 3550 RV fires, I wonder how many are folks fulltiming? I wonder of all the refrigerator fires, how many of them happen to those who depend on and use the refrige regularly... we all know folks who have an RV that has been used maybe once or twice a year...

Bill

05 Intrigue 11881

Re: Norcold 1200 Refrigerator

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 70371
I've watched many products, with many defects in design/manufacturing/both, get recalls. Some with much press (Toyota being raked over the coals by the press. Others, like Workhorse, never getting a bit of press. In our home, our high end Dacor fridge, could have caused a fire by a melted component. Our Dacor double oven, has now had more costs put into repair of bad design/manufacturing, then the costs of most new ovens.
I've come to the conclusion that it is in all of our best interest, to take our own counter measures to protect our belongings, and love ones.
Like many, we have the 1200. I read on many boards, and made many calls, and then decided to:

-Add a smoke detector behind the fridge -Add a SS-30 extinquisher behind the fridge -Replaced a non functioning cooling unit, with the Amish unit -Added additonal in compartment cooling fans -Added the Solar driven exhaust fan
We wanted propane cooling as an option. So, the Samsung repalcement was not for us. We did all of this on our schedule, and on our dime. I did not trust the Mickey Mouse, 2nd recall attempt by Norcold.
We too have our exit strategy talked over, for many conditions. We review/update these emergency plans once each season.
We all have different wants and needs, so what works well for us, may not be the best for others. That's the way things are.
Best to you all. Be safe, have fun, and do what you feel is best for yourselves, Smitty

04 Allure 31017
04 Allure Sold to a nice new owner! Now enjoying a 07 Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600 #6775
"We're ONDROAD for THEJRNY!" (Toad and Coach license plates, say Hi if you see us!)

Re: Norcold 1200 Refrigerator

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 70380
Everyone knows my opinion on Nocold vs Samsung residential refrigerator.
I am not a full timer but for the few weeks that I just want to jump in the motorhome and go boondocking, I enjoy having a big freezer and refrigerator that runs on less than 11 amps per hour of electricity from the 12 volt batteries through the inverter. But if I were a full timer I would have a very difficult time adapting to a 12 cu ft refrigerator that cost more to run and maintain than the 19.7 cu ft Samsung.
Unfortunately, my wife is totally spoiled by the Samsung and never had the chance to enjoy the nocold 1200LRIM refrig before I ripped it out of the coach within a few days of buying the motorhome.

BEFORE:

photos/album/370769381/pic/113504802/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=21&count=20&dir=asc
AFTER:

photos/album/370769381/pic/1671201942/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=21&count=20&dir=asc
Dallas 2004 Intrigue 11688 C12 (Samsung RF197ACRS) dedicated boondocker.

Re: Norcold 1200 Refrigerator

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 70382
To take it to the next level, which is relevant I feel. How many of the refer fires were the double door units that seem to be the problematic ones. This statistic could be interesting..

Mikee

Re: Norcold 1200 Refrigerator

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 70388
On my Dometic, I can inspect this area from the top of the MH after I remove the vent cover for the fridge. I have measured 300 + degrees at the top of the CU. As I recall a discussion with a tech, I think they can get as hot a 600?

Larry, 03 Allure, 30856

Re: Norcold 1200 Refrigerator

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 70391
Quote
Quote from: Mbaul@...
Mikee,

Let's go even one step further in the statistical analysis. Lee claims 8+million RVs to come to his probability conclusions. I wonder how many of the millions are RV's with the Norcold 1200. Now take the number of fires as a function of only the RVs with the 1200.
He also notes many other things with higher probabilities to worry about. Are all of those other things also of the same danger level? i.e. loss of life and maybe your stick home burning down if your RV is in a attached garage? Clearly my worrisome level was higher than Lee's.
Lyle Wetherholt
04 Intrigue 11740
> To take it to the next level, which is relevant I feel. How many of the > refer fires were the double door units that seem to be the problematic ones.
This statistic could be interesting..

Mikee



[quote author=Lee Zaborowski

Lee,

Your odds are indeed impressive----so long as you are not the odd man out.
Lyle Wetherholt
04 Intrigue 11740
>

> I do not want to minimize the tragedy of a coach fire. Most of us on this > > board have an ammonia-absorption type refrigerator and are likely to be > > reading these posts with concern. We do need to be vigilant and wary. I'm > > one of those.
>

> I've done all the recalls and have installed a fire extinguisher set-up > in

> the external compartment. My wife and I talk frequently about the escape > > plan should a fire strike.
>

> However, having said that, I'm not sure panic is necessarily called for.
I

> read that there are over 8.2 million RVs in the country. Recent > statistics

> show there were, typically, 3,550 RV fires across those 8+ million RVs a > > year. Also there are* 5 primary reasons for an RV fire*. You can read > about

> this in -
>

> cjb*fire*.com/ManSample.pdf
>

> Put another way, that means if you lined up 2,250 RVs, one of them would > be

> involved in a fire from one of 5 causes. I guess it all depends on > whether

> you like those odds or not.
>

> I'm not offering any opinions or suggesting what folks should do, just > > offering some facts for your consideration. Some perspective is always > > helpful.
>
> Lee
>
> --

> Lee Zaborowski

> 07 Intrigue 12153, Cat C-13
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: Norcold 1200 Refrigerator

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 70394
OK, I'm sorry to repeat myself, but these recent comments suggest posters have not read the article I referenced. If I am wrong, I apologize in advance.
First, these are not "Lee's claims." As the article notes, that data comes from the National Fire Incident Reporting System, and fire depaments must report incidents to the U. S. Fire Administration.
Second, everyone seems to ignore my comment, extracted from the article, that THERE ARE FIVE MAJOR CAUSES OF RV FIRES. The article does not say how many of the 3,550 fires a year are caused by ammonia-absorption refrigerators.
If you are only interested in Norcold 1200 fires, good hunting . . . all else is conjecture.
Personally I do worry more about health issues or getting run down by a drunk driver. But that's me.
Those interested in more information about fires in ammonia-absorption refrigerators would be well served by reading the following article, which includes much detail and photographs.
http://www.aegiforensics.com/library/pdfs/Invest-Absorpt-Refrig-Fires-Part1.pdf
Lee

Re: Norcold 1200 Refrigerator

Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 70407
I think we all worry about health issues, traffic catastrophes because of someone else's carelessness, etc. However, I think Lyle's is saying the Norcold refrigerator was something he could worry about, but take steps to do away with that worry. Ron and I went down the same road and we love our Samsung. I also enjoyed sleeping well during our recent trip because I felt secure that the refrigerator was not going to torch our coach.
Obviously it is the perogative of each individual to make the decisions concerning their priorities.
I only hope that none of those who choose to play the odds have reason in the future to regret those decisions.

S Brandt, '06 Intrigue, #11964

Re: Norcold 1200 Refrigerator

Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 70420
Just read today that 25% of the people over age 50 who fracture a hip die within the first year of the injury and that you are two times more likely to die of a hip fracture than from breast cancer. Wow ! Since I don't have a Norcold (my coach has a GE Profile) Lee and I now have something else to worry about. It's always something Be careful stepping out of your coach.

R. D. Vanderslice
Sob