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Adding more fresh water and grey water storage tanks

Yahoo Message Number: 70835
I was looking to see if anyone has added more permanent or temporary water storage in their coaches. Let me prequalify my question before one of you respond with "why would you do that?"

1. I am always boon docking and we travel with friends on the weekends and 89 gallons of fresh water goes bye bye really quick. We have yet to be anywhere that had more than just electrical connections which I don't need either with the excessive amount of 8D batteries onboard.

2. I take really short showers (less than 1 gallon) but with four people (two women) we run out by the 2nd morning. They do not understand the 1 gallon rule and I am not going to win that argument.

3. We have a dishwasher onboard. Even though we use paper plates, we do like barbequing and need real plates for using sharp knives and the dishwasher was the difference between go and no go for my wife after the first time she tried to do dishes in the sinks,(I did not win that argument either.) Besides it uses less water than hand washing dishes for 4 people.
 We installed a really nice foam/air hide-a-bed mattress bed and our friends love camping (if you can call it camping) with us because the bed is so comfortable. We also added the 19.7 cu ft Samsung residential refrigerator so lots of food storage.

5. I don't need all that storage under the coach. (My wife does not travel with a bunch of 'stuff', which leaves me with enough room for my all my 'junk' under the coach...according to her, not going to win that arguement either.

6. I am running out of projects to build onto the coach so this is going to happen. I always win that argument.

So I researched tanks and ordered a 50 gallon water tank after figuring out what would fit along side of a 42 gallon additional grey water tank in the storage bay next to the plumbing bay. I removed the slider in that bay to get more room and will end up using about 1/2 of the bay and will fully insulate it with 1 inch foam board and extend one more heating element onto the existing hydro hot run that heats the existing plumbing bay.
I take this coach into some pretty cold areas for skiing in the winter. This is the reason why I also installed a one of kind ONSPOT automatic snow chain installation on the ride well rear-end on this coach last year. This is a really sweat system where a flip of a switch on the dash board swings down these rotating heavy duty chains under the drive axels.
I spent a couple hours removing the cover off the plumbing bay. That was interesting but doable. I cleaned out all three tanks really well and replace any plumbing part that looked bad. I have ordered a whole bunch of compression fittings, valves and pex pipe and waiting for my two new tanks to arrive this week.
In terms of added weight, the new 50 gallon fresh water tank is another 37 lbs empty and 440 lbs full. The new grey water tank is 55 lbs empty and 400 lbs full. Neither would be full at the same time obviously since one is going empty as one is filling up.
The slide that I took out of that storage bay weights more than the two tanks empty (my back told me that), so there is no weight gain if I do not use them on a trip. I figure that I have about 6000 lbs of useful load capacity after weighting all the points on the coach, taking into account fuel and water levels, recently on a scale so 400 lbs of additional crap won't hurt.
I am going to make the connections and installation easy to exchange the new tanks in and out of the motor home in just a few minutes. I will have added a three way valve for the water pump to be switched between the two water tanks. I will use my macerator pump to transfer the existing grey water to the auxiliary grey water tank when it is full and use the same macerator to empty the auxiliary tank.
Does anyone one know anyone who has expanded their coach from 89 gallons of fresh water to 139 gallons along with adding 42 gallons of grey/black water? Probably not since you would have to know someone that is crazy and looks at their motorhome as a hobby. I think I have thought this through but always looking for additional ideas before I start.

Dallas

2004 intrigue ovation w/tag C12 11688

Re: Adding more fresh water and grey water storage tanks

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 70836
You might look at adding a pump from grey to black. We did, with a filter in between the grey and the pump. We never get close to using the black. Might then use both new tanks for water.
I also wonder if you kept the tray, and just added a water bladder on top, if this might have also worked well. It could be removed if you had a need for the storage.
Good luck, and I know about not winning too...
Smitty

04 Allure 31017
04 Allure Sold to a nice new owner! Now enjoying a 07 Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600 #6775
"We're ONDROAD for THEJRNY!" (Toad and Coach license plates, say Hi if you see us!)

Re: Adding more fresh water and grey water storage tanks

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 70840
Smitty,

Good ideas, I did think of using some of those ideas. I found my black water tank was 1/2 full by the time the grey water tanks was full and the fresh water tank was empty so I felt I would be border line to transfer the grey to black. I still might have that as a back up anyway. I could put another valve into the top of the black tank and just pump the grey into the black with my macerator and 1 inch hose. Good idea.
With regards to the bladder. I wanted to have a tank that I could stack something on top of for additional storage like sewer, water hoses and electrical lines. I was also freaked out about the fact that the slides only have one little latch that keeps that much weight from breaking loose and going out the side the motorhome if the door latches don't stop it as a last resort while taking a sharp turn. I was not willing to imagine the damage that would do if I hit something next to me, so I want the 400 to 500 lbs temporarily anchored to the storage bay.
I also wanted to split the bay into a heated and none heated area so I still have a little less than half the bay to store items from the other side of the coach.

thanks for the ideas Smitty

Dallas 2004 intrigue 11688

Re: Adding more fresh water and grey water storage tanks

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 70844
It has not been mentioned, but if you add a Sani- Con system to your coach, the pumping unit isolates , the system from draining, so that you can open both the grey valve ( first , and it has more in the tank ) and then the black valve , The grey will be forced into the black tank, thereby increasing capacity. We have 100 gal fresh and 65 grey and 65 black, so there isn't a volume issue ( unless you add an extra fresh tank ). Depending, where you park, a little grey water on the ground hurts no one. Really not much different than washing your car. I would not do this on a regular basis, only in an emergency. It is interesting to note that Newell's have 150 gal fresh and one tank of 150 gal for grey and black mixed. They use a macerator ( Sani Con ). They have used one grey/ black tank for years with no issues ( according to them ).
If your water requirements are as stated , for sure get a Sani- Con

Ron Baran 09 Magna 7025

Re: Adding more fresh water and grey water storage tanks

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 70845
Ron, just so you know, 3 day old gray water smells as bad as black water . . . obviously not as 'concentrated.'

Oh, 'gray' is American, 'grey' is English, eh! ;-))

Lee
--

Lee Zaborowski

07 Intrigue 12153, Cat C-13

Re: Adding more fresh water and grey water storage tanks

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 70847
Lee Po-tay-toe or Pot-tat-oh, both the same thing. Further to Newell and having only one tank. Why haven't more manufacturers done that. A Sani-Con is only about 400$. The two separate tanks have to be more than that. Any ideas out there ?

Ron Baran 09 Magna 7025

Re: Adding more fresh water and grey water storage tanks

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 70849
The reason other manufacturers didn't go to one tank is that it doesn't meet RVIA codes and manufacturers wanted that $25 sticker on the side near the front door. Newell didn't give a sh*t. Another similar situation was the generator and engine exhaust through the roof that Bluebird (and no one else) did for several years.

Brian Davis

'05 Intrigue #11901

Re: Adding more fresh water and grey water storage tanks

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 70858
Ron,

I did install the Sani-con system and use that exclusively to empty both tanks. I have not used my three inch sewer hoses ever since installing the Sani-con system. Takes a few minutes longer to empty at the dump stations but it is so much more handy to just use the 1 inch expandable rubber hose that comes with it to run the waste were I want it. I plug the hose when I am done draining it and never get any waste on my hands.
I bought extra sanicon hoses. I have a total of 42 feet of that flexible rubber hose that compacts to 14 feet and I can stuff and store in the same tight area as the sani-con macerator box. see link below:
photos/album/370769381/pic/2036799004/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc
I have avoided dumping my grey water on the ground but I have many times covertly run my hose over to a portapotty or honey bucket and taken a (very large) dump when parked in a parking lot or outdoor function :) With that sani-con system nothing is off limits within the reach of the one inch house if I can get near any toilet. It can pump up hill and you can add additional hoses to move the waste further. I keep extra(non drinking water) hoses for just that purpose. I can also use the sanicon system to move grey water to the black water tank by just putting another smaller waste valve into the top of the black water tank which I plan to do.
My main objective is just getting more fresh water on board to last a weekend trip with four people on board and have an extra holding tank when there are no portipottys around. :)

Dallas 2004 intirgue ovation 11688