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Starter problems

Yahoo Message Number: 5223
Hello everyone,

After my recent starter problems, I am wondering how many of the members turn the engine off if stopping the coach in rest areas, etc? It seems to me that the starter has a pretty hefty job turning the engine over and the more it is used, the more likely the starter is going to fail because of the heavy use. My started went south after 50,000 miles with a replacement cost of $1000 and Cummins gave me a hard time taking care of the cost. Engine warranty 5yrs. 100,000 miles, Cummins did not want to cover the starter, but Jack at Midwest Cummins in Ft. Wayne helped me get it covered. A great guy--he did not do the repair but someone at CC gave me his number thinking that was the

factory number. If you are in the Ft. Wayne area and are having trouble, go see him because he will help you.
For a $1,000 I believe that I can let the engine idle a long time and save the starter.

Thanks for your ears,
Egon

'99 Allure

'02 Tahoe Z71 Tahoe

Re: Starter problems

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5229
We took delivery of an Intrigue (11673) in May and as of this date I am on my third starter. It seems that they just quit working.
The first one failed during the factory delivery walk through. CC got it started and off we went to Cummins NW for replacement. Starter number two failed on June 19 while at Davis Cabinets in Junction City. CC responded immediately by sending a tech over with a hammer. He crawled under the coach and applied some mechanical agitation. CC made arrangements with Cummins NW once again to replace it the next day. We were supposed to be at Cummins about 7:45 am. We spent the night at CC and got ready to leave early, yup no joy!! We waited until CC service came to work and called for "Hammer Assist." Bang, bang and off we went. (I believe we got a total of six starts from that starter)
We are in Cannon Beach OR now with starter number 3, it has three succssful unassisted starts sofar. On 6/28 we plan to leave, stay tuned.

Chuck Penque

Re: Starter problems

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5230
Egon,

Idling over 5 minutes, not good for the new breed of diesels we have. See Engine manual. This is not your father's diesel.

Bill G. 2001 Magna #5998

Re: Starter problems

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5231
We have 2002 Intrigue #11419 - 36' double slide, and although we'd certainly had our share of problems, we are now almost 2 years out and have had no starter problems as of yet.

Are we in for some terrible surprise????

Tom Sims

Re: Starter problems

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5233
Tom

I have a 2002 Intrigue 11451, I nhave had some problems, but no starter problems as of yet.
What other problems have you had.
Gary Bettig
Inrtigue 11451
GDBETTIG@...

Re: Starter problems

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5235
Go buy or steal that magical hammer and learn where to bang the darn thing!
On Thu, 26 Jun 2003 10:10:43 EDT cpenque@... writes:

Re: Starter problems

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5241
-

Who in this group that bought "the world's finest Motorhome" does not mind crawling under your coach to bang on the starter? Not me. Does Cummins really have a problem with their starters. Man I would be very upset if I Had the problems that Chuck has had.
Hopefully the situation will be resolved because I don't want to have to shell out $1000 everytime my starter decides to go south after 50,000 miles.

Sometimes I wonder if the manufacturers think that all buyers of high end coaches have an unlimited amount of funds. Look at the posts on this forum about the Hurricane heating units and now problems with the starter.
Egon

Re: Starter problems

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5243
I guess I am lucky, my first starter last all the way from Lazy Days in Tampa area to Tucson on my maiden voyage. Cummins replaced it with a rebuilt starter and that has worked fine now for over 30,000 miles.
Now, if Cummins could only get rid of the black smoke problem which seems to be getting much worse lately.

Quote from: cctravelingman
> -

Who in this group that bought "the world's finest Motorhome" > does not mind crawling under your coach to bang on the starter?

Not

Quote
me. Does Cummins really have a problem with their starters. Man I > would be very upset if I Had the problems that Chuck has had.
Hopefully the situation will be resolved because I don't want to

have

Quote
to shell out $1000 everytime my starter decides to go south after > 50,000 miles.

Sometimes I wonder if the manufacturers think that all buyers of

high

Quote
end coaches have an unlimited amount of funds. Look at the posts

on

Quote
this forum about the Hurricane heating units and now problems with > the starter.

Egon

>

Re: Starter problems

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5246
Egon,

I don't think the starter problem is wide spread. We are on our 2nd CC and this one is a 2001 Magna with 40k miles and never had a starter problem. We converse with lots of CCowners at rallies and the problem is not a big one. And it is not a CCI problem, they don't make starters, just install them, and they use the same starters everyone else uses.

Bill G. 2001 Magna #5998

Re: Starter problems

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5259
Tom,
My coach is only a few away from yours... and I have had about 6 instances of the starter not turning over at all on the first turn of the key. An off then on second try has so far always started the engine.
My next service stop at Cummins will include a discussion of this problem.
Dick May

2002 Intrigue, #11438
"The problem with doing nothing is not knowing when you are finished."

Re: Starter problems

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5264
Starter problems: Just a though FWIW: I had a serious gremlin in my starting circuit a couple of years ago. Serious enough that CC flew a tech to my house after being stranded several times and having spent time at two different Freightliner dealerships. As it turned out, the primary terminal end at the starter solenoid was the culprit. When things were just right, it would make a connection and start. When they were not, it would not start. Both dealership mechanics missed it completely. One mechanic even installed a remote button and circuit that would allow me to start it from the back of the coach, but that proved to be unneccesary. Maybe the removal/installation of wiring when replacing the starter is making it appear to be the source. One way to check it would be to jump the terminal directly from the batteries when a no-start happens. It's a pain to do, but having done it several times, it can be done. I have subsequently driven 40k miles over the past three years and have no starting problems.

Larry

Intrigue 10762

Re: Starter problems

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5266
Bill,

I agree that the problem is a cummins problem but whether it is a big problem or not, it is one that should be addressed and solved. With the number of problems reported on new and near new coaches there is a definite problem. The starter on my 2000 Intrigue occured within 2 weeks of the purchase of the rig in January 2000. I was fortunate that the problem happened near a Cummins service facility and I was able to convince them to come to me rather than having the rig towed to them, Danny Ford the field mechanic who came to my site to replace the starter was outstanding.

Re: Starter problems

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5267
Hi Dick

Thanx for the info. Please - let me know what Cummins has to say about this. I've not experienced the problem yet - but time will certainly tell.
Now if only I can get this weight/tire pressure thing under control.

Tom Sims

Intrigue #11419

Re: Starter problems

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5273
I've had both starting problems discussed recently. I have a 2000 Intrigue with a 350 ISC and YES they do have problems with defective Cummins starters. I had mine replaced two years ago (we were at Crown Villa in Bend and it expired on the spot). I called Cummins, they came out and put in a rebuilt unit which has worked for two years. I had to pay for the road service, but could have avoided the charge by having it towed in (NOTTTT!!!!).

Wit respect to intermittent starting, I had a bear of a problem a isolating it, but it is the rotten little solenoid located in the engine bay on the lower right side facing rear (accross from the tail lights). Mine is tucked under the auxillary oil tank so it is very difficult to see. It has failed twice. I now believe that the culprit is cranking the engine when the battery is low. The starter draws more and more amperage when a low voltage condition exists and frys the solenoid.

I suspect that cranking the engine with the jumper button from the house batteries held down (yes, I did that as well) causes it as well. The instructions clearly say to hold down the button thirty seconds, then let off of it and turn the key. Using a jump starter will probably do the same thing. If the chassis batter is dead, I'm told that it takes about 9-10 hours with ground power to charge it up.

Both repairs cost me around $150.00 (ouch!!!). The last guy told me that the solenoid is a standard Ford part and should be upgraded from the stock 80 amp version to a 200 amp (Ford solenoid) available in parts houses.

I bougth a spare from CC for less than $20.00 and plan to replace it myself if it happens again.

I am told that there is another solenoid in the circuit (in addition to the one in discussion and one on the starter). It is located under the removable panel in front of the passenger's seat in late modle Intrigues -- other rigs???. I have never looked for it. Apparently is seldom fails.

My suspicion is that CC deliberlately put a solenoid with marginal amperage capacity in the circuit to protect the starter and associated wiring???

Chuck Gauthier

2000 Intrigue 11142
La Quinta, CA

Re: Starter problems

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5279
From what I am reading, all the failed starter/solenoid problems seem to be in the Intrigue. Has anybody had a problem with the Allure?

Ree

Full-timin' in a 2003 Allure #30852

Currently at Mountain Home, Idaho

Re: Starter problems

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5283
Tom,
If you (we) ever get it under control we can pass it on to CC!
Dick May

2002 Intrigue, #11438
"The problem with doing nothing is not knowing when you are finished."

Re: Starter problems

Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5293
Yes...I have a 2000 Allure and I had the failed starter last summer on my initial trip with my new to me unit. Road service got it started by using cables from the battery to the starter. It happened again a month later and that time I banged the darn thing with a hammer...It has behaved ever since...Mike Y2K Allure 98 CRV.
On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 15:05:02 -0600 "Ree" ree@...> writes:

Starter Problems

Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5284
Hello Dick,

My starter problems stared out as you have described yours--turn the key and nothing happens, but on the second try the starter would turn over. And finnally it quit completely until the hammer was was used to hit the starter. As I remember we had a couple of tractors on the farm that we had to use the hammer on them. It seemed that the starter woul;d develop a dead spot on the armature and would no conduct electricity. Anyway, if your unit is less than 2 years old I would definitly tell Cummins about it. It looks as if most starter problems are on the Intrigue but I have a '99 Allure.

Egon

'99 Allure

Shoot for the moon, even if you miss you will be among the stars