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Cat vs. Cummins questions

Yahoo Message Number: 74773
I am considering upgrading my 2000 Allure about 6 years. That means a 2006 Allure with a 400 Cummins or a 2006 Intrigue with either a Cummins 400 or a Cat 525 as possible choices. (I haven't found any Intrigues with a Cummins 500 and guess that Cummins wasn't producing them in 2005/6 or that CC didn't use them for some other reason.)
Is the 1,200 ft. lbs. produced by the 400 enough for the extra 12,000+ lbs. of the newer coaches. (My Allure has a 350 with 1050 ft. lbs. of torque and struggles pulling my 6,000 pickup up long grades.) Will I regret not getting the 525? I know this question has been discussed before, but I don't recall anyone coming right out and saying that their coach was underpowered with the Cummins 400.
Do the C-13 Cats have as much over heating problems as the C-11? Is there a reasonable fix for the over heating problem in the C-13?
Are the radiators a problem in most of the C-13 Cats? Should I be prepared to replace the radiator?
Remembering all of the complaints and questions regarding problems, I would expect significantly more problems with a C-13 than a Cummins. With Cat getting out of the RV business, will there be a shortage of parts and repair facilities in 5 years?

I would appreciate answers and comments.

Gene Merryman
2000 Allure

Re: Cat vs. Cummins questions

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 74774
Gene

I went from a 40 ft Monoco with the 350 Cummings to a 40 ft 2006 Allure tag axle (much heavier) with the 400 hp C-9. I wish I had a 50-100 more hp. The 40ft coaches without tag axles and the 400 hp engine leave me in the dust climbing the mountains in the West. On level ground there are no issues.
Re part supports from CAT. Cat has a long reputation for supporting their equipment and I am not concerned at least in my lifetime.

Dan 2006 Allure 31348

Re: Cat vs. Cummins questions

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 74775
Gene,

I'd highly recommend test driving! We live in a hilly area and I drove a C-13 (525HP) equipped 45'Intrigue vs a 600 hp Cummins in a Beaver Marquis (40') back-to-back. I thought the C-13 was okay, but I wouldn't have been happy with less. In comparison, the Cummins was a race car (but had the most uncomfortable driving position I've ever experienced!)

Just my 2 cents!
Mark

Re: Cat vs. Cummins questions

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 74776
Gene With regard to the 400 Cummins , and having enough power, with 12000# extra weight . It entirely depends on how much the slow speeds up hills bothers you. On the climb out of Indio, from roughly sea level to about 3000ft, my 06 Dynasty (it had a tag )at 41000 # plus 4500# toad would slow to about 40 t0 45 MPH climbing the grade depending on the weather. That bothered me, and I chose my next coach to have as much power as I could buy. It may not bother others. I slowed to under 40 on the grades in Northern California. That is a question only you can answer.
The ISM from Cummins , was a problem motor for them . I met a fellow with an ISM that pulled , under dyno, almost 90 HP less than advertised. I think that is why you don't see that engine out there much. Cummins refused to do anything about that , even when presented the evidence.
The fuel economy will be slightly better on the 400 versus 500 HP , when on the flats , and poorer in the hills ( but you will go up the hill faster ).
The Cat versus Cummins, is like the Chevy versus Ford deal. Generally Cat parts are more expensive( I have a friend in the trucking business ).
You will hear all kinds of comments, usually that the one they chose is the best ! I will stay out of that as well.
With regard to the radiator issue. I would guess that that had nothing to do with the engine choice.

Happy Hunting !!

Ron Baran 09 Magna 7025 650HP Cummins ISX

Re: Cat vs. Cummins questions

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 74781
Between the two engine choices, I would go with the Cat. I would not worry about Cat parts or support, they'll do what needs to be done. Radiator is your call, and that can be with either a Cat or Cummins.
I own an o4 Allure 40' Tag with ISL370. It does what I need it to do. Would I like more power, yes, just a tad bit more. Only needed on large hill climbs, or when wanting to try and re-accelerate once slowing down for say a truck while climbing a hill.
Do check the power to weight ratio's on the specific rigs you are considering. I found our ratio's compared to the 04 Magna's and Intrigues with Cat Big Blocks, were all real close to each other.
The major deciding factor for us to choose this coach over the others, was two things: 1) The galley in this coach is bigger then most 45' rigs we checked. 2) Less glitter in the Allure, a personal preference for us.
If it was offered with the Big Block Cat or Cummins, I would have kept looking for one with that in it.
All and all, from what you said, the hill climbing speed is important to you. So, that makes it the Cat between these two.

Best of luck,
Smitty

04 Allure 31017
04 Allure Sold to a nice new owner! Now enjoying a 07 Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600 #6775
"We're ONDROAD for THEJRNY!" (Toad and Coach license plates, say Hi if you see us!)

Re: Cat vs. Cummins questions

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 75332
Gene,

I have the C13 Cat engine in my 07 Intrigue. I just got back from a run from California to New Orleans with 6 other Coaches. Only 1 other coach had a Cat a C9. Neither one of us overheated on any hill on Route 66 before heading South on the way out. A couple of the cummins did. I or the other Cat were never the slow ones going up the hills.
I have only overheated once on the steep grade outside of Bishop CA on my way to Mammoth and I was towing an 06 Rubicon LJ. The light came on for about 10 seconds before the temp dropped back to normal right near the top of the grade. That grade did slow me down and I was later informed that I should of taken it out of cruise control and shifted manualy to maintain RPM closer to 1350 rather than 1800 and I wouldn't have any problem.

Mark Surber

07 Intrigue 12162
C13 Allison
06 Rubicon LJ