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Michelin Tire Question

Yahoo Message Number: 75168
Hello all.

I am in the process of working up a deal for new Michelins for our coach The tire dealer is recommending the Michelin X Coach tire over the XZA2. My question is has anyone out there used the X Coach tire and if so thoughts, etc regarding this tire? The weight carrying capacity appears to be almost identical to the XZA and there is an all season X Coach design that may be more suited to winter driving.
Thanks for any comments.
Bill Brown

aka: aksafariman
06 Monterey

previously had 99 Intrigue 36'

Re: Michelin Tire Question

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 75179
Bill

I would talk to Paul at Les Schwabb in Junction City. I don't know of any one with more experience putting tires on Motor Homes.

Dan 2006 Allure 31348

Re: Michelin Tire Question

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 75184
Dan,

I have those tires on our bus. 22.5 295/80R is the size I believe. These are more for commercial busses which implies some important considerations. That being how the manufacture decides on what formulations to use in the rubber. In our case we've been toggling between 2 locations about 400 miles apart the last 2 seasons. I think it looks like a third season of same is in the works. The tires thus get reduced mileage and extended exposure to the sun and weather. Rubber rots out over time and cracks in the presence of the elements. On a commercial bus, tires could be worn out (tread wise) in a year or less. This makes sun exposure less of an issue. The manufacture might not consider U/V stabilizers to be as important in their rubber compound. It all boils down to money and designing a product to just meet its usage pattern. In the case of tires, safety is of paramount concern. I went with Michelin tires because I thought the mechanical construction of the tire might be more robust. I'm thinking of rubber thickness, mold design, belting and punishment resistance. Also their ability to work properly at high temperatures was deemed to be better. These are things a commercial vehicle would encounter. Pretty much any tire will work in good conditions but if something goes bad (or wrong) and your tires are pushed well beyond their design limits, what happens?? I wanted a tire that would hold up if things got tough. Perhaps you hit something on the road or badly scrape a sidewall in a construction zone. Maybe it's a trip through Alabama where a road goes band-bang-bump-bump for two hours then you hit a pothole. What about during heavy braking down hill when the heat of the drums is transferred into the rims and tire bead. Maybe an inside (or outside) tire on a double wheel loses some pressure causing excessive tire heat which isn't seen immediately. I think a more commercial tire would be designed to handle these conditions better than a "home owner" tire.

As for rubber compounds, it's an

extremely complex subject which even large companies like GoodYear can't seem to dial in. Some years back we all remember the G670RV tires that proceeded to spontaneously blow out. It certainly wasn't a "good year" for the folks that crashed their bus. This was an RV specific tire with a different rubber compound designed to better handle years of exposure to the sun. It's a great idea in theory as some folks run their busses for short periods of time then park them. That implies the tire gets abused more by the sun than by driving on it. Someone tried to adjust the tire's rubber compound to better meet the usage pattern. As mentioned it's a great idea in theory. I like to find something that has remained unchanged and stood the test of time. This isn't easy with rubber tires.

As for the XZA2s, we'll see how it goes. The tires are too new for me to go beyond initial impressions. So far so good is all I can add for my review. 5 years from now I may be facing cracked and chalky rubber much worse than another tire I could have selected. These days tires seem like fashioned trends meaning they change all the time to pander to the emotions of customers. Finding facts in this market is tough and makes comparisons over reasonable lengths of time (or across products) difficult to impossible. If a rubber formulation changes and is injected into the same mold you wouldn't know about it. That is until the recalls start. Someone told me Michelin doesn't warranty their tires. If true, this actually is a good thing. I gather this reflects a knowledge on the part of Michelin that customers buy and expect their tires to fail only by tread wear. A very reasonable and simple expectation. During that cycle, nothing else should go seriously wrong. Their slogan is "Because so much is riding on your tires." For those running busses, nothing could be more accurate.

Oregon had good prices. I paid about $650/ea for the tires a couple of seasons ago. OR has no sales tax either. Mounting and balancing was extra and done in UT. And for a wheel that weighs well over 100 Lbs it was impressive to see it needing only a 5 oz balance weight. Usually only the front tires are balanced. Watch who does the work and make sure the wheel fits properly on the balance machine. I had to contain some kid on this after I saw him adding over 20 oz of weight in the rim. I dealt with another kid when he was about ready to jack up my bus by the differential casing with a single piston jack. All were too lazy to hit the proper jack points near the wheels. The message right now is, "So far so good with the Michelin XZA2s." Good luck and I hope this helps a few folks out there.

At 04:59 AM 10/22/2011, you wrote:

Quote
>

Bill
>I would talk to Paul at Les Schwabb in Junction City. I don't know of any >one with more experience putting tires on Motor Homes.

Dan 2006 Allure 31348

Re: Michelin Tire Question

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 75190
Good observations Scott, Always learning something on this group.
I run in the snow in the winter and have the XDS's on the drives. I use to spin my tires trying to get out of my 10 degree asphault driveway with the original TOYO's when it was raining...not anymore. They seem to handle snow really well and even better if I lift the tag axel or I flip on the On-Spot chain system mounted under the coach while in snow.
I don't find the XDS's noisy at all and I am not worried if they might wear a bit faster since I really can't imagine driving 65,000 miles in the next 8 years anyway.
I just made a trip from Seattle to Southern California via Utah parks and the Grand Canyon with XZE's on the front rims. I set the front tire pressure at 115lbs at 65 degrees. While driving the front tires got up to 151 degrees internally and 139 lbs for 100's of miles with 12,820 lbs over the front wheels. All I can say is that made me a bit nervous but I was glad to have a well proven tire under the front.

dallas 2004 intrigue ovation

Re: Michelin Tire Question

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 75193
I too always enjoy learning from the things I read on this board...
Dallas - Question for you sir. Are these 12R's? And if so, did you go with the XZE*?
The way it was explained to me, is that the '*' has a more robust sidewall construction for those occasional 'rear tire clipping' of the curbs going around corners. (In 18 months with these tires, I've had to clip the rear left twice now... Just could not avoid it...)

Commercial vs made for RV, interesting read.

Best to all, be safe, have fun,
Smitty
04 Allure Sold to a nice new owner! Now enjoying a 07 Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600 #6775
"We're ONDROAD for THEJRNY!" (Toad and Coach license plates, say Hi if you see us!)

Re: Michelin Tire Question

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 75205
Scott,

I too got the XZA2's for the steer some months ago and we shall, as you say, see. My XZA1's did not do well at all in the AZ and MT sun. Michelin dealers in AZ told me that all else aside, they have more problems with UV "weather cracking" with Michelins by far than all other major brands. Mine were gone at 5 years.

Rich 2002 Magna

Re: Michelin Tire Question

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 75211
Rich,

AZ is certainly one of the best proving grounds for sun testing. Sorry to hear about your XZA1s cracking, especially since Michelin is considered a "high end" tire. But in a world where almost all businesses work on a "maximize profit" model, those few extra pennies needed for that little extra get squelched in the ivory towers. In defense of tire producers, good quality rubber is expensive and if a tire line isn't profitable then something changes. That being a discontinued model, tread pattern, model number, color or advertising strategy. It's funny. My tires (XZA2) have the word GREEN on them which seem like a contradicting term if the tires are taken out of service prematurely. In the march of the XZA..... I think we are on version 3 now?? And I'll bet no one is really sure what the design details of the progression are.
It's a bit like the ink cartridge in your printer. If the manufacture doesn't tell you how much ink is in there (and they don't), it's impossible to evaluate the true cost. Leaving out this type of information puts the end user at somewhat of a disadvantage. It leaves the consumer unable to do comparison shopping and/or establish where the best value is. After you buy, you don't really know exactly what you purchased. And it's no accident.
On tires, there is a clear and present safety concern for passengers and anyone else on the highway. It's my opinion that tires should be taken out of service only by tread wear and/or unexpected damage. Not rotting or cracking rubber. And reoccurring blowouts are an outrage! I don't think we're splitting the atom on this one. It doesn't take a towering intellect to know (in advance) that tires are going to get exposed to sunlight. And in some cases, lots of strong sunlight. What isn't known is what the average yearly miles will be. It doesn't seem proper to punish the guy who drives a little less. 5 years seems a bit short to take a perfectly good set of tire treads out of service. How green is this really?? Another thing that's printed on my tires is "regrooveable" which means re-treads. It would seem this implies a longer lasting sidewall rubber compound is in order. Personally, I would never re-tread any tire. Who needs more road 'gatters. Our bus tires run at high pressure which is a call to attention with rubber strength and tread bonding.
For us here we fall somewhere in between commercial and recreational in a small market. Perhaps too small in some cases to get quality. Something I've been struggling with since we "hit the road" 3+ years ago. If you are living in your bus you feel the pinch of this in many areas. We all do the best we can.
I'd guess by the time you cycle through a tire brand/model long enough to make some declarative statements about its service life, that model has been discontinued. Or it's been replaced by the "improved" model making direct comparisons impossible. As for the XZAs it looks like it's not going to be as easy as 1,2,3 especially if the XZA4s are forth coming. Who knows! That's my 10 pounds of blubber in a 5 Lbs bag. Hope it's been entertaining and informative. Try as I might, I can't seem to totally escape sarcasm.
Thanks for sharing your experience Rich. I guess I need to purchase some of those funky tire skirts or park in the shade.

At 07:57 PM 10/22/2011, you wrote:

Re: Michelin Tire Question

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 75212
Smitty,

I am running the XZE* on the front 12R's, they seemed to be the most durable design in 12R's. I run the XDS's on the drives for extra traction. The tags are next to be replaced.
Les Schwab felt I had a couple more years from the old Toyo's on the tag axel so I bought some more AGM Batteries with the savings.

Dallas 2004 intrigue ovation

Re: Michelin Tire Question

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 75215
When running toyos I used to rotate the tags with the steer tires to even the wear every two years. Now that I am running xz2, the highway version of the XZE. a regional tire, I haven't had any tire ware issues. Les Schwab felt since I live in the Southwest and would experience much higher ambient temps that the XZ2 would be a better choice for me.
TWI 2004 Intrigue 11731

Re: Michelin Tire Question

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 75216
Thanks Dallas (They do take a bite out of the wallet! But AGM's do too...)
Thomas, thanks also... Never ran into these in my research. Are these 12R's? Les Schwab seems to be a class act on helping match tires with needs.
All of my research was via the net, and talks with both TCI (Owned by Michelin) and Parkhouse Tire, both shops in San Diego area.
No complaints with ZXE* so far, but have only put 8K on them so far. (Hope to fix that soon:)!).

Smitty

04 Allure 31017
04 Allure Sold to a nice new owner! Now enjoying a 07 Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600 #6775
"We're ONDROAD for THEJRNY!" (Toad and Coach license plates, say Hi if you see us!)

Re: Michelin Tire Question

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 75217
XZ2 as a 12R was put oh hold in early 2010. Some say an improved version was in the works, others say a totally new tire is to come. I have no clue. I bought mine in late 08 and have 30,ooo+ miles on then with just a small sign of wear on the outer and inner edges of the steer and tag tires. Will probably have them rotated at the Next CC Friends rally in Oregon. There is no sign of cracking. They are currently under cover. We travel 5 to 7 month a year. I also pull the coach out of storage once a month and bring everything up to temperature by driving 100 miles. I operate all systems, get the tires hot, fluids warm, etc.
TWI 2004 Intrigue 11731

Re: Michelin Tire Question

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 75222
That does not mean can be re treaded. It means the tires can have the tread grooves cut deeper when they wear down. It is rarely done in today's world, due to the labor cost of doing so. Any tire carcass can be re treaded If it is in good shape. Sidewall checking or cracking is a disqualifying condition. it is common practice to run retreads on trailer tires on class 8 trucks. It is illegal to use retreads on any steer axle in commercial service. If you look at the road gators you will find a mix of re treads and first run treads. According to the tire industry the most common cause of tire failure is under inflation. It builds up excessive heat, due to rolling resistance, and the related damage to the tire. This damage is cumulative, meaning once it is run under inflated the damage is there and the next time it adds to the prior damage. The typical tire inflations on class 8 trucks is 110 in the steer and 100 in all others, regardless of load. The loads on class tires vary greatly (loaded versus unloaded). Running anything less than 90 in these tires causes excessive heat build up from increased rolling resistance. Tire makers produce inflation charts to provide the best ride, not necessarily the best life expectancy. Potholes, rough roads, sidewall scrapping, etc also cause "bruising" of the tire which is also cumulative. Not a sermon, just a thought.

Mikee

Michelin tire question

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 75213
You speak the truth, we had a new set on a three qtr ton truck, after 3 years they cracked like a dried desert pond, horrific. To get a new, prorated (of course), set and after some heated arguments, I had to sign a waiver they would not warrant any cracking on the new tires. How's that for a confident builder? Yes, we live in AZ. Not sure I would do Michelin's on any vehicle spending most of its time in the Southwest. Buyer beware . . .

Lon '06 Inspire

2a. Re: Michelin Tire Question

Posted by: "Rich" rich_barlow@... intrepid008 Date: Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:57 pm ((PDT))

Scott,

I too got the XZA2's for the steer some months ago and we shall, as you say, see. My XZA1's did not do well at all in the AZ and MT sun. Michelin dealers in AZ told me that all else aside, they have more problems with UV "weather cracking" with Michelins by far than all other major brands. Mine were gone at 5 years.

Rich 2002 Magna