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Leece Neville

Yahoo Message Number: 81578
Just after startup and doing my walk around check, I thought I got a whiff of an electrical short but dismissed it as something else. Once on I-94 heading west from Bozeman, I noticed my alternator was not charging.
First thought was I shucked a belt but I'm not overheating so I continued to the next exit and stopped in a safe parking area. Man was that alternator hot. I foolishly tapped the case and was lucky I didn't burn my finger tips.
Using the temperature gun, it measured close to 400 degrees. Internal short?? From this group I knew I had a Leece-Neville alternator and it might be tricky to find a qualified shop to deal with this problem so I decided to go to the next Cummins facility which was about 100 miles away in Missoula.
I stopped several times to monitor the alternator temperature as I was concerned that I might have a bearing problem and if it seized up than I really would have a problem. I got into the garage the next day and was told the alternator needed replacing or overhaul. Since this is a non standard part for Cummins the easiest and cheapest solution would be to rebuild it and as luck would have it they delt with a shop that was familiar with Leece- Neville and usually has the parts on hand. The rebuilt cost $378 and with new belts and labor charges the total came out to about $700. I was told to stick with this alternator due to the wiring arrangement of our buses so I took the time to look it up on the schematic and how its wired into our buses as well as information from this group. Mine had only 3 wires going to it. The + which is directly wired to the battery, the negative and 12 v from the ignition to excite the field. No remote sense and my tach is not driven from the alternator so why can't I use an ordinary alternator. It does not appear than I am using the duo vec option.
One benefit from the rebuild is that is performing much better than before. Prior to this with fully charged batteries, the best voltage as reported by the Silverleaf was 13.8 v and now its 14.0 v. Also it would never fully charge the house batteries after a long run and now it switches immediately to float charge when I'm stopped and start the generator. I suspect it has been underperforming for years.
One last note. There was quite a buildup of dirt and dust clogging the air vents that one cannot see unless you use a mirror so I feel somewhat foolish about not blowing it out occasionally as I'm sure this helped precipitate the problem.

Ed McManus.....'02 Intrigue.....11361

Re: Leece Neville

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 81601
Thanks for the excellent write-up and recommendations....
-skip-

2000 Magna 5778

Re: Leece Neville

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 81605
Those in need of a replacement for their alternator might want to consider one from Remy. They claim it's a direct replacement for the Leece Neville A0012824LC. The have them with 160, 180, 200, and 240 amp output. Great price also. $215.00 for the 160 amp unit!
http://catalog.remyinc.com/Product/Details/8600308
http://www.finditparts.com/products/1881560/delco-remy-8600308
Barney

07 Inspire 52059

Re: Leece Neville

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 81613
Coming from the trucking industry for all of my career Ryder and Detroit Diesel, Leese Neville was definitely not the choice of large fleets like Roadway Express, Swift and many other of my customers. The preferred alternator was Delco-Remy if things haven't changed changed in the last five years.

Barney is right on with this one.
Tom



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From: barneym55

To: Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 8:38 AM Subject: [Country-Coach-Owners] Re: Leece Neville

Those in need of a replacement for their alternator might want to consider one from Remy. They claim it's a direct replacement for the Leece Neville A0012824LC. The have them with 160, 180, 200, and 240 amp output. Great price also. $215.00 for the 160 amp unit!

http://catalog.remyinc.com/Product/Details/8600308

http://www.finditparts.com/products/1881560/delco-remy-8600308

Barney

07 Inspire 52059

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Re: Leece Neville

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 81615
Here is a much better deal and can fit any of our coaches. I installed one. Easy direct bolt up.

Leonard

97' Magna 5418

Re: Leece Neville

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 81623
Does the the Neville have remote sense and was it used by CC?

Elton Kossaeth
2K Magna 40' 5894

Re: Leece Neville

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 81635
Thanks Barney. Thats exactly what I'm looking for. I already downloaded the info and what I really like is that it has a remote sense. I'm an ex boater that had a similar setup and I was never able to fully charge its invertor batteries using the engine alternators. My rebuilt Leece seems to fully charge my house batteries now but only after a long run. I'm sure with the remote sense, it will do it much quicker. First priority when I get home will be to order one and unless some disagrees will probably get the 200 amp. Beside the engine chassis 8D, I use 8-6v golf cart batteries for my house. Since replacing the alternator is fairly simple, will keep my Leece as a spare and save $700 next time.

Ed McManus......'02 Intrigue........11361

Re: Leece Neville

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 81638
Thanks Leonard,

Think I am going down the wrong rabbit hole. My link 2000 keeps flashing "lo bat", even with fully charged batteries. Alternators putting out 13.6 - 13.9v. Just replaced my wet cell house with AGMs and the shop can't figure why the lo bat. The tech said he reset the 2000 for AGMs. Might be a bad link 2000 and another rabbit hole we go.

Elton Kossaeth
2K Magna 40' 5894

Re: Leece Neville

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 81639
If you are getting those battery readies with the engine running going down the road, you do have a low battery issue. Should be 14.6 without a lot of vehicle load on. The problem I have seen with several of the Leece Neville is the low charging. Had mine rebuilt and it still would not put out the full voltage. Updated to the one in the link and now have fully charged batteries for the first time. Seems the LN units have a weak regulator along with sticking brush issues. Glad I changed. Replace the 160 amp with a 200 amp Delco copy. Get a digital volt meter and read what is actual at the batteries. Best way to determine what is going on. At the 13.9 with over the road AC you are probable dropping very close to 12 volts and maybe below and that would triger the lo bat signal.

Leonard

97' Magna 5418

Re: Leece Neville

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 81640
LN is not alone with some issues as DR had a problem with their diode retention some time back. Naturally they blamed it on engine vibrations but soon improved the retainer design and the problem went away..

Tom

Inspire 51172



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From: Leonard Kerns

To: Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 5:28 PM Subject: Re: [Country-Coach-Owners] Re: Leece Neville

If you are getting those battery readies with the engine running going down the road, you do have a low battery issue. Should be 14.6 without a lot of vehicle load on. The problem I have seen with several of the Leece Neville is the low charging. Had mine rebuilt and it still would not put out the full voltage. Updated to the one in the link and now have fully charged batteries for the first time. Seems the LN units have a weak regulator along with sticking brush issues. Glad I changed. Replace the 160 amp with a 200 amp Delco copy. Get a digital volt meter and read what is actual at the batteries. Best way to determine what is going on. At the 13.9 with over the road AC you are probable dropping very close to 12 volts and maybe below and that would triger the lo bat signal.

Leonard

97' Magna 5418

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Re: Leece Neville

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 81649
Elton,

My Leece Neville does have voltage sense but it was not being used. With all the extras the Country Coach installed I can't understand why they wouldn't add a short piece of wire to connect this to the chassis battery. The model number is A0012824LC.
I might add that when I removed the alternator I found the regulator ready to fall off. It has 4 screws holding it in place and 3 were gone and the 4th had about 1 thread left. It separated so far from the brush box that the brush springs had come out of their holder and were just flopping around. I have no idea why the thing was still working!
I have a new 180 amp Delco Remy on order (part #8600311). I went with the 180 because of a concern with the wire size from the alternator to the battery (starter solenoid). It appears to be 2/0 and I didn't want to chance overloading it. 2/0 max's out at about 190 amps.

Barney

07 Inspire 52059

Re: Leece Neville

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 81651
My self installed Link 2000 flashes LoBat constantly for the past two years.
I did several test steps with the tech help guy and his conclusion was that the meter was faulty. Evidently the 2000 has some known failure issues.

Buy a new model he said after several phone conversations.
I use the meter for charging information, voltage status in two banks, and equalizing. I ignore the other "options".

Dean

95 Magna 5280

Re: Leece Neville

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 81654
Dean

The repair tech told me (while resetting the 2000 for the second time) that this monitor had received a lot of customer complaints as to how complicated it was to use. He said that there is a user friendly, direct replacement,. monitor for it. Can't remember the name of it and have had little luck searching the internet. He was able to get the "lo bat" to go off , but that by the time I got home it was flashing again. I checked voltages and all was good. I had even used the gen set to run the roof A/C on the way back. Question now is what charges the batteries while driving with the gen set on, the alternator or generator? I get the "lo bat" either way. I would ask the repair tech to give me the name of the monitor again, but no one from the RV repair facility will even call me back. This my second bad experience with RV repair shops and I have have only used two.

Keep smiling :)

Elton Kossaeth
2K Magna 5894



From: Dean

To: Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 1:46 PM

Subject: [Country-Coach-Owners] Re: Leece Neville

My self installed Link 2000 flashes LoBat constantly for the past two years.
I did several test steps with the tech help guy and his conclusion was that the meter was faulty. Evidently the 2000 has some known failure issues.

Buy a new model he said after several phone conversations.
I use the meter for charging information, voltage status in two banks, and equalizing. I ignore the other "options".

Dean

95 Magna 5280

Re: Leece Neville

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 81658
Ed you might want to verify the amperage of your shunt and breaker between chassis and house sides. I don't know about the Intrigue, my 2003 Lexa has a 200 amp breaker, so the 240 amp could potentially trip the breaker if the house batteries were sufficiently low that the alternator moved > 200 amps across the breaker. If yours is less than that (say 150) it could be tripped by the larger alternator output. I've tripped mine the other direction (when chassis batteries were low after leaving ignition on, and using the boost switch shunted > 200 amps from house to chassis).
Re not fully charging batteries, I wonder if the difference might be the regulator and max voltage output of the alternator. I had mine increased from 13.9 to 14.2 and my coach batteries are in much better shape after a long trip, and I'm now happy to start them out almost dead (if I'm boondocking) and letting the alternator charge, versus hitting the generator in the morning to ensure I've got a reasonable charge when arriving late in the day.

Jim Walsh
2003 Lexa

Thanks Barney. Thats exactly what I'm looking for. I already downloaded the info and what I really like is that it has a remote sense. I'm an ex boater that had a similar setup and I was never able to fully charge its invertor batteries using the engine alternators. My rebuilt Leece seems to fully charge my house batteries now but only after a long run. I'm sure with the remote sense, it will do it much quicker. First priority when I get home will be to order one and unless some disagrees will probably get the 200 amp. Beside the engine chassis 8D, I use 8-6v golf cart batteries for my house. Since replacing the alternator is fairly simple, will keep my Leece as a spare and save $700 next time.

Ed McManus......'02 Intrigue........11361

Re: Leece Neville

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 81660
What one really needs to consider is the capacity of the battery isolator. Mine had a 200 amp installed at factory. It died and replaced with a 200 amp. That would be the first item down steam of all the amps a bigger alt would produce. Easy to overlook until it stops working.

Leonard

98' Magna 5418

Re: Leece Neville

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 81667
My Link 2000 allows me to control the shared charging source between coach loads and the battery charger. It provides a means of turning on the inverter when you want it to run. It will allow you to equalize the batteries. It will give you accurate voltages for each battery bank, and accurate charging stage information.
The amps portion of my Link 2000 is what failed. I really do not need that info although it would be nice to have if boondocking.
Your alternator charges the engine batteries and will also charge the house batteries once the engine batteries are at 12.6v.
Your battery charger will charge the house batteries but may not charge the engine batteries.
Many rigs are wired so that the battery charger will not push voltage through the house battery to the engine batteries. Mine is that way.
So, when your generator is running, it will power the battery charger/inverter to charge the house batteries relieving the alternator of any responsibility.
The same thing would happen with shore power except you would need a much longer cord. :)
If you want to know how many amp hrs remain in the house batteries or at what rate they are being consumed, you would want to replace the Link 2000 meter.
It is good to recognize that using the inverter to power 110v accessories while driving down the road may require more effort from your alternator and thereby shorten its life. Using the gen set uses fuel but is kind to the alternator.
RV repair shops have their limitations. You already know more about the Link 2000 than most shops.

Dean

95 Magna 5280

Re: Leece Neville

Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 81679
Leonard,

I am not sure what you mean when you talk about a 'battery isolator'? I've traced my alternator connections and they are 2/0 copper to the starter solenoid where it connects directly with a 4/0 cable and then directly to the positive post on the chassis battery. Don't see anything else. You must have something I don't?

Barney

07 Inspire 52059

Re: Leece Neville

Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 81681
This is what an isolator does, see attached picture, allows the alt to charge two sets of batteries. Surprised your coach does not have one, could be wired different. Maybe they use the echo charger but that would not be near as good as an isolator. If the picture does not come though, google battery isolator and you should find several pictures.

Leonard

97' Magna 5418

Re: Leece Neville

Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 81694
Barney

I believe the newer coaches use an echo charger and the difference (I believe) is that it gives priority to one set of batteries (house or chassis) and once they are charged they begin charging the second set of batteries.
I have never seen reference to a battery isolator on my coach.

Dan 2006 Allure 31348

Re: Leece Neville

Reply #20 –
Yahoo Message Number: 81697
Using a echo charger of ?? 35 to 50 amps?? is sure a pour mans, read cheap, way to wire batteries. An isolator will put the full alt charge through, no wonder some have house batteries issues with charging using only an echo charger.

Mine had isolator but no echo charger. Now it has both.

Leonard

97' magna 5418

Re: Leece Neville

Reply #21 –
Yahoo Message Number: 81698
Echo chargers by-pass a maximum of 15 (or so) amps. These devises are used for maintaining the chassis batteries while plugged into shore and the Inverter (or whatever type battery charger) is charging. Yes they go both ways so when it sees a rise in voltage from either bank it hook's up to it combines the banks. I hardly ever see a coach that only has a echo type combiner as the only combiner, typically the manufacture of the coach will put a larger solenoid type combiner that ties the banks only when ignition is on or the jump switch is pressed - so only when the main engine is running, not while plugged in (not that all are this way - just most). In that case an echo type combiner is added on since the coach probably sits plugged in more then the main engine is running, I've personally installed hundreds of echo type combiners on coaches, and my 2 cents is they work fine, do the job, cheap fix if the problem is chassis battery parasitic loads draining the battery while parked, not the best solution for charging the house while driving...

-Jim

From:Leonard Kerns Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 4:32 PM To:Country-Coach-Owners@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Country-Coach-Owners] Re: Leece Neville

Using a echo charger of ?? 35 to 50 amps?? is sure a pour mans, read cheap, way to wire batteries. An isolator will put the full alt charge through, no wonder some have house batteries issues with charging using only an echo charger.

Mine had isolator but no echo charger. Now it has both.

Leonard

97' magna 5418

Re: Leece Neville

Reply #22 –
Yahoo Message Number: 81700
Leonard,

You're right, that would be a cheap way to manage charge from alternator. Gratefully, that is not the way it is done.
Newer coaches have a system that is better than the old isolator method. The battery combiner solenoid is triggered by a signal from the oil pressure sensor. This results in directing the alternator charge to each battery bank without the voltage drop associated with the battery isolator.

George in Birmingham(still in Santa Fe) '03 Magna 6298
George in Birmingham
2003 Magna 6298

Re: Leece Neville

Reply #23 –
Yahoo Message Number: 81701
Thanks for clearing that up, George. So the alt sees one large battery bank with all the batteries tied together, if I understand. Then one weak battery or cell would effect all the batteries during down the road charge, is that correct? If I understand the isolator, it brings up bank A, usually starter bank first, then it brings up B bank, house batteries. At least that is what I remember from reading about isolators, thou that was some years ago, may be out of date information. At any rate, the batteries see full alt output with both systems. The only issue with the 'new' system is how one bad battery could effect all the batteries taking a charge, i.e. a corroded cable causing resistance would make the alt think the batteries were at 14.6 when they were actually only 13.6 due to resistance. Supply your own figures, illustration only. Digging into this to better understand the system, then one might find a why for some of the strange charging issues discussed here.

As for voltage drop with an isolator, is that not what the DVAC system takes care of? It reads the voltage right at the battery and adjust output according, so the batteries are always receiving max voltage, overcoming any voltage drop in the system.

Leonard

97' Magna 5418

Re: Leece Neville

Reply #24 –
Yahoo Message Number: 81727
Leonard,

No, that is not the way an isolator works. It does not bring up banks in sequence. Generally speaking the exciter sense comes to the alternator from the chassis battery. So, voltage produced is determined by the state of charge at the chassis bank. The alternator output goes to the input post of the isolator and the charge then exits the isolator through diodes to each of the outputs. One output each to the chassis and the house banks and, in some cases, to a separate generator start battery. All outputs are the same potential. Thus, the isolator suffers from the same issue as the battery combiner solenoid. The long and short of it is that bad batteries always exact a price.

George in Birmingham(still in Santa Fe) '03 Magna 6298
George in Birmingham
2003 Magna 6298