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Help Selecting a Motorhome for Fulltimers

Yahoo Message Number: 6043
Hi Group Members,

We have narrowed-down our MH search to a short list and would really appreciate hearing the opinions and experiences of owners of these coach models:

Country Coach      2001   Allure 40 Crown Pointe Country Coach      2001   Allure 40 Suite of Dreams Country Coach      2001   Intrigue Evening Star Alpine         2002   MDDS 3820

Newmar Dutch Star   2001   Spartan-DSDP3852

All are dual slide DPs with the Cummins 8.3 L. engine and Allison tranny.

We will be fulltiming in the MH, so it needs to be livable in cold, hot (excellent heating, AC, insulation), and rainy weather (no leaks).

We will also do a lot of cooking in it so the galley needs to be as good as possible.

Reliability, dealer network quality, and drivability are key. We will be towing a Honda CR-V.

Thanks so much for your help.

Walter Guilarte

guilarte@...

Re: Help Selecting a Motorhome for Fulltimers

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 6045
Walter

Here are a few of my thoughts on purchasing a motor home. A coach that has an electric refrig like you have in your home would be desireable especially for full timing. I have been told the life of a gas refrig is about five years and my friend had one go bad in his 99 Intrigue and it cost $2,000 to get it replaced. Alpine introduced an electric refg 2001 or 2002. To prove my point on this issue, the Dometic rep that travels to rallies has an electric refrig in his coach so that must tell us something.
The other consideration would be hot water heat. I have a 99 CC Intrigue with hot air heat and when the heat kicks off it doesn't take long for the coach to get cold. I don't care how much insulation they say they put in, when it get cold it is pretty much like trying to heating a tin, and with slides out the problem is worse. CC has had alot of problems with hot water heat, but I don't know about other coaches.
Alpine has hydraulic brakes in lieu of air brakes and their argument is that a Boeing 747 doesn't need air brakes so why does a motor home need them. I think Alpine builds a very nice coach and almost bought one the first year that came on the market, but mommy did not like the interiors which I think have improved.
A slideout generator and battery tray are also things I would look for. CC has not offer slideout generators or battery trays on their lower end products until the last model year and servicing the batteries and generator is not easy. Try checking the water levels on the back cells in a CC and you will see what I mean.

Full fiberglass roof would be mandatory from my perspective.
Also check the sizes of the grey and black holding tanks. In many instances the grey tanks are the same or very nearly the same size as the black tank and most people create alot more grey than black water.
Check the size of the sun visors. In the past CC has put some pretty skimpy sun visors in their coaches and traveling west in the evening sun can be painful. It is something one may not notice until you have to use it.
A tire pressure monitoring systems would also be a nice feature since tire failure is not an uncommon problem on motor homes. Many coaches are over loaded or very near to be overloaded and determining the correct tire pressures has been an ongoing issue for the past four or five years.
I would also advocate the biggest engine you can get. Some of these coaches are very heavy and will really bog down on long hills. As you will note, the 2004 model year most companies are now offering 400-500hp models.
I also want like for the same guy that builds the box to build the chassis. I don't want any finger pointing. Been there done that! The only problem is there are alot more Freightliner Service shops than CC. CC will tell you that any shop will work on their chassis, but based on my experience, that has not always proven true.
Hope this helps. I wish someone had told me things like this before I took the plunge.

Gene

Re: Help Selecting a Motorhome for Fulltimers

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 6048
The Dometic rep that travels to the rallies also has a Prevost! The Dometic in our last coach lasted 8 years, and this one is getting close to 9 years, and still going strong.

Per Korslund
Affinity 5259

Geneclend@... wrote:

Re: Help Selecting a Motorhome for Fulltimers

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 6056
Walter:

For something as monumental as choosing a full time motorhome, perhaps a bit of deliberation by way of one of Life on Wheels' confrences might be helpful. We went to the one in Idaho in July, and were suprised as what we didn't know about motorhomes and full timing. We were also suprised at the percentage of attendees that hadn't made their purchase decision yet.
See: http://www.lifeonwheels.com/info/lifeon.htm for location of the next confrences.
Dick

2000 Allure #30519

Their website is

Quote from: traderpilot2002

Re: Help Selecting a Motorhome for Fulltimers

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 6058
Walter

The main thing I can tell you about all the coaches you have listed is look at the weight and tires and make sure the chassie can handle the weight. These coaches were all made about the time the coach companies started to add a tag axle to all dual slide coaches. The weights are getting to high and a lot of coaches should have had tag axles in 2001. I would not buy any 40 foot dual slide or more, high end coach without a tag. Many of the coach companies are now putting tags on 37 footer's and there are a lot of unit out there that are close to their limits that should have tags. With a tag you get a better turing radius, more brakes, tires you can run at a lower air pressure, and more stability on the road. Not to mention the peice of mind that comes from knowing your coach can carry the things you put into it.

good luck, Bill G. 2001 Magna #5998.

Re: Help Selecting a Motorhome for Fulltimers

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 6061
Thank you Gene, Bill, Dave and Dick for your thoughtful posts. We are trying hard to learn fast, and your tips are enormously important to us.

I was impressed by the common thread through all responses - to watch for tire, chassis, and engine overloading. This may lead me to look for the largest payload configuration and largest engine in a 38 footer.

I can already see that the RV community has a lot of smart and friendly people!

Walter

Re: Help Selecting a Motorhome for Fulltimers

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 6073
We've been to Life on Wheels (at U of Idaho) twice ('99 and '01) and plan to go again at least one more time. You won't get much "brand-specific" education, but you will almost certainly learn a lot of valuable stuff. We'd been camping - van, tent trailer, class C - for nearly 30 years, but still found LOW very educational. Highly recommend this program.

We finally settled on a (used) two slide 36 ft '02 Allure, w/Cummins ISC 350, Allison tranny. We've been fulltiming since last Dec. We've lived with our choice for nearly a year now and we are completely satisfied. We still haven't seen another brand, model or floor plan we'd trade for.
--

Tom and Maxine Harsch
'02 Allure 30971

Quote from: Richard Stearns
> Walter:

For something as monumental as choosing a full time motorhome,
perhaps a bit of

Quote
deliberation by way of one of Life on Wheels' confrences might be
helpful. We went

Quote
to the one in Idaho in July, and were suprised as what we didn't

know about

Quote
motorhomes and full timing. We were also suprised at the percentage

of attendees

Quote
that hadn't made their purchase decision yet.
> See: http://www.lifeonwheels.com/info/lifeon.htm for location of the

next

Quote
confrences.

Dick

2000 Allure #30519
> Their website is -

Re: Help Selecting a Motorhome for Fulltimers

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 6075
Walter,

If you are looking at engines, the highest hp is not always the most powerful engine. Look at the torque, thats where vthe power is. For example, the 400 hp cummins engine only requires a 3000 Allison trans where as the 385, C10 Cat requires a 4000 Allison. That because the 385 Cat is a bigger engine then the 400 Cummins which is the same as the 300, 350, engine they just boast the hp.
Also stay with air brakes, they do a much better job then hyd. brakes. As far as I know Alpine is the only company left with hyd. brakes. The others have all changed when they were purchased by Monoco.

Bill G. 2001 Magna #5998

Re: Help Selecting a Motorhome for Fulltimers

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 6080
The 400 Cummins is a different engine than the 300 and 350. The 300/350 hp Cummins is the ISC, as mentioned in the origiinal post. This engine displaces 8.3l. The 400 Cummins is the ISL, which displaces 8.9l. Another difference is the ISL comes with a Jake brake, much more effective than the exhaust brake available on the ISC. The 385 hp Cat is the C-10, of 10 liter displacement. This is the newer version of the 3176 in my coach.
Per

Affinity 5259

F102508@... wrote:

Re: Help Selecting a Motorhome for Fulltimers

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 6081
Per, the 370 has exactly the same max. torque as the 400--as you said, both are ISL's at 8.9L. The only advantage I can see to the 400, which is optional at extra cost on an Allure, is at the higher rpm's.

Walt Rothermel
03Allure30811

Re: Help Selecting a Motorhome for Fulltimers

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 6082
When I asked the difference between the 370 and 400 of the Cummins guy at FMCA Buffalo, he said the only diff would be that you might get a little more pickup with the 400, but the torque is the same.
I will say the engine works pretty hard on some of the hills from Flagstaff to Phoenix, especially in high desert temps. Speeds down to 35 mph coming north or south from the Verde Valley.

Bill Harris

03 Allure 30912 370 ISL

Re: Help Selecting a Motorhome for Fulltimers

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 6093
As an experienced truck and equipment operator my advice is to drive any coach you are considering on all road conditions for a day before buying. If you are not experienced you would have a hard time keeping my new Allure on the road. The Alpine is built for handling from the ground up. Unfortunately their interiors did not match the mechanics when we were looking last spring. Hear that is fast improving. In summary, there is no way to adequately assess handling in the normal "test drive." If you can't load one as you will use it and then take one for at least a day, don't buy it! Doug, Allure 30929.

Re: Help Selecting a Motorhome for Fulltimers

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 6096
Doug, I can 't help but wonder what it is that causes you to have a handling problem with your new Allure. My 03 is my third CC and the best handling yet, now that they straightened out my bottoming out problem ( it was ride height ). Is it wandering, or what?

Walt Rothermel
03Allure30811

Re: Help Selecting a Motorhome for Fulltimers

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 6098
? Just making a random note...Many people are talking of bigger engines...Sounds great and makes the juices flow...However, these bigger engines are being put into newer, bigger RV's with 3 or 4 slideouts. Think of weight gain perhaps??? I find it all ridiculous but people are buying the new coaches and what are the poor manufacturers to do????
On Tue, 2 Sep 2003 20:20:26 EDT F102508@... writes:

Re: Help Selecting a Motorhome for Fulltimers

Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 6107
Dave & Karen,

Length 36' [actually over 37]. We were running 95# pressure. CC reduced it to 75 partially due to our relatively light loading. That did not help. Back to our truck experience, we keep tire pressures high for safety and handling, even at the expense of mileage. Sometimes the trucks are empty, sometimes loaded at gross equal to double the empty weight. So how can tire pressure be such a critical issue on the coach? Doug

Re: Help Selecting a Motorhome for Fulltimers

Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 6108
Walt,

Your opinion is valuable, especially as a long-experienced owner. I wish you could drive ours and offer a comparison. According to CC there is no problem. It wanders to the point of having to concentrate on the road so seriously there is hardly time to scan gauges. If passing trucks are not anticipated we would be on the shoulder. CC checked weights and ride heights and decided it was normal after a test drive. Ours is not overloaded. In fact we have empty storage bays and closets.
Maybe the problem is me expecting it to be more solid like a truck, but I think it is dangerous. We are going to put Michelins on the front, double the shocks, and increase the sway bars.
Consider the endless discussion of ride height / air valve problems. Doesn't it seem like there is some basic fault in the design? We don't have all these problems with trucks.

Doug Allure 30929

Re: Help Selecting a Motorhome for Fulltimers

Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 6110
Doug, I've got a hunch that your problem is quite real to you but those of us that have never driven trucks don't have anything to compare to.. My Allure, which I think drives superbly , is such that I find it dangerous to take my eyes off the road long enough to look at the smart tire if driving at highway speed. It will definitely wander if you don't stay on top of it at all times. On the other hand, I've had three gas bangers and three CC diesels and they were all that way. My 2000 Intrigue would seem to dart very quickly after they went to one ride height valve on the front, and Doug Rutherford was quite concerned about it, but I traded it before he could drive it himself.
It's a shame you have to spend alot of dollars to change out the front tires, shocks and sway bar. I do hope you will let us all know if that corrects your problems.

Best of luck,

Walt Rothermel
03Allure30811

Re: Help Selecting a Motorhome for Fulltimers

Reply #21 –
Yahoo Message Number: 6113
From: F102508@...>

Quote
>Spiker1029@... writes: > > > those of us that have never driven trucks don't have anything to

compare

Quote
to..
In addition to the great suggestions you're already received, may I add the following: As you drive, don't look right in front of the coach ... look way down the road (National Safety Council recommends (I think) 12 seconds ahead of you; lighten up on the wheel, as if you're piloting a boat. In other words, don't over-correct or constantly-correct. If your arms are stiff and stressed, too, you're asking for problems.
And don't forget that, in most trucks, you're sitting behind the front axle, while on your CC, you're sitting ahead of the front axle. This has to make a difference in how you "sense" things. When your CC's rear goes to the left, the coach pivots on the front suspension and YOU go to the right.
When a regular truck's rear goes to the left, you go left, 'cause you're sitting behind the front suspension.

Dick (& Geri) Campagna
Intrigue #10571

Re: Help Selecting a Motorhome for Fulltimers

Reply #22 –
Yahoo Message Number: 6116
Doug,

I agree with Walt on how our coaches ride. You can not take your eyes off the road We have a 2001 Magna and it drives great, much better then the other 3 coaches we have had but you can't let down your guard at higher speeds. Several weeks ago we drove from florida to Texas at 55 to 60 mph. Slow for us but we were in no hurry. The coach was very easy to handle with one hand and we really enjoyed the ride. We also got 8.5 mpg, plus the coach ran 15 degrees cooler, so we will try that more often when we are not in a hurry. My wife also drove the coach one time at 90mph, she said that was not fun but she was on the desert and I was asleep. She did not notice until she looked at the speed.
Also Doug Rutterford is usually pretty straight forward when it comes to how coaches ride. At 13,000 miles he replaced our front Toyo's with Michilens because we did not like the way the tires were wearing. We are well pleased with the Michilens which are considered steer tires.

Bill G. 2001 Magna #5998

Re: Help Selecting a Motorhome for Fulltimers

Reply #23 –
Yahoo Message Number: 6117
From: gablerwh@...>

(snip) > My wife also drove the

Quote
coach one time at 90mph, (snip) At 13,000 miles he replaced our front
Toyo's with Michilens

Quote
because we did not like the way the tires were wearing.
Could it be 'cause the tires are only rated for up to 75MPH???

Dick (& Geri) Campagna
Intrigue #10571

Re: Help Selecting a Motorhome for Fulltimers

Reply #24 –
Yahoo Message Number: 6119
My 2 cents worth for Doug who is having handling problems. I have a 36 footer with one slideout and one rear axle so my coach may be comparable to his. My coach does handle well but it is a 2 handed job. Compared to my prior Bounder this is almost like heaven! However, these Allures are heavy and the rear weight is greater. I find it very beneficial to keep the diesel tank kept filled. I will always try to refill at the half mark if possible. I also have tried to shift weight in the bays as far forward as possible. While I have a fair payload the weight to be added is at the front axle (no empty bays or storage areas up front though). If this sounds like your situation Doug try driving with a full tank of diesel and see if that helps. Fill up the propane tank too and try to move heavier items to the front most bays. I would try that before you start paying good bucks for various fixes. Good luck. Mike 2000 Allure Deschutes 36' #30493
On Fri, 5 Sep 2003 12:12:15 EDT F102508@... writes: