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Dometic NDR 1292 Failed Cooling Unit

Yahoo Message Number: 83063
All the discussion about Norcold and Dometic units and the potential of fire concerns everyone. My Dometic model NDR1292 has a failed cooling unit. Unfortunately I found this out as I was getting the coach ready for a trip.
I had the coach on shore power and had turned on the refrigerator to get it ready for supplies. The LP tank was turned off at the tank. The next day I had checked and freezer had light frost and refrigerator was cold at 36f. Two days later I went to load supplies and found the inside of the refrigerator at almost 90f inside it. Control panel was on and no indication of failure. I went outside and removed access panel and found the heating elements still on and the heat shield hot. I immediately turned off the control panel, unplugged the 120vac power cord and once cooled down for about 20 minutes, I opened up the area and disconnected the 12vdc power to the control board.
At first I thought I may have had a potential fire issue, but the problem turned out to be electric heating elements that did not turn off when the cooling unit failed more than 24 hours earlier. The heating elements heated the area to the point of melting the control board cover and damaging some wiring that was routed too close to the heat stack. The wires burned together and may have shorted. The burned wires were in the main control cable that runs from the upper control panel inside to the control board on the back of the refrigerator. The control board seems to be OK with no burned areas or loose solder connections.
There are many questions in my mind as to the "what if...". Time, fuel, and ignition all playing a part. Those are all unknown and very speculative. Should the system have a fail safe to turn off power if internal or external temperature rises above a certain point? In the coming days, I hope to get some answers from Dometic for that along with a few other questions.
My refrigerator has no recalls according to Dometic or the NHTSB. It is 12 years old and has operated flawlessly for the whole time. Nothing lasts forever. So I guess it is time to decide to next course of action. Because of the shape, size and location of the unit, it is unlikely there is a household type refrigerator that can be slid in its palce. Besides, I really do not want to give up the propane capability for dry camping use. Dometic does not manufacture the NDR1292 any longer and there is no replacement model. So it looks like a new replacement cooling unit is in order. With all the good reviews of the Amish built cooling units available through Pine RV and others, I will give careful consideration to take that route.

Jim Hughes

2000 Allure #30511

Re: Dometic NDR 1292 Failed Cooling Unit

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 83092
I also have and Dometic NDR 1292. Something in the area of the cooling unit got hot enough to cause the plastic cover on the fridge bay to droop. I've had OMC look at our unit. They sent pictures to Dometic. Neither OMC nor Dometic can figure out where the heat came from. Inside the fridge bay, there is no obvious source of the heat. In fact, there is a plastic water line for the ice maker just behind the point where the plastic is drooped. It was not affected by the heat source. In the meantime, the fridge is off and not being used. I have an appointment at OMC to pull the fridge and try and see if they can figure out the source of the problem.
As you work through your issue, I'd appreciate knowing if you find something more specific.

Paul Onerheim
2004 Magna #6301

Re: Dometic NDR 1292 Failed Cooling Unit

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 83118
So, I've a question about the absorption frig. I've read that you should not use propane to cool the unit while on the road. So do I use my invertor to run it? I'm very new to this so I'd rather ask then have a problem later on down the road. Thanks, John 2003 Allure 30951

Re: Dometic NDR 1292 Failed Cooling Unit

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 83120
John,

There are some folks that are concerned with running there refer on gas while on the road. But, the vast majority of us use them as designed. Mine is always set on AUTO so that it runs on 120 whenever plugged in or the generator is running. While traveling it always runs on propane.
If there was a problem with this operational method there would be a strongly worded warning in yellow and red on the refer. The owners manual does not even say a word about not traveling on gas mode.

Good luck

George in Birmingham
'03 Magna 6298
George in Birmingham
2003 Magna 6298

Re: Dometic NDR 1292 Failed Cooling Unit

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 83122
I have been running Dometics on propane while running down the road for over 20 years. They are designed to do this no problem. Sometimes they need a baffle in front of the burner to avoid wind problems when driving. Dometic has these.

Rich 2002 Magna

Re: Dometic NDR 1292 Failed Cooling Unit

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 83125
John - I don't use the propane feature. I don't think there are adequate safety devices present for that heat source. Having a lit flame subject to air currents doesn't seem like a good idea to me. Not sure how the frig controls deal with blow outs, restarts, etc. In our case, I have made modifications to allow the frig heaters to run off the invertor. In DC amps this load is between 16 and 40. Easily covered. Our invertor is a pure sine wave unit. The solid state pulse width modulation circuit on the control board throttles the heaters. These circuits may have issues with other AC wave shapes. I have tested my mods when we moved from Park City, UT to Montrose, CO. A six hour trip taking us through 100F weather. Everything worked as expected. Writing this up is on my "to do" list. It remains a viable option for those looking for this type of solution.
Paul - With our frig, the absorber vessel is close to the plastic access cover. I'll guarantee you that plastic melted because of heat. A really hot absorber vessel plus a sun load could generate enough heat to melt plastic. You were wise to shut down the frig and look further into this. Please keep us informed on what is discovered.

At 05:29 PM 10/9/2012, you wrote:

Re: Dometic NDR 1292 Failed Cooling Unit

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 83134
I usually have the generator running away for the roof air, so the refrigerator is on AC power. Traveling in the south, the OTR AC is not enough for a comfortable ride. I typically have my propane tank turned off while in motion. I use the propane for the refrigerator when dry camping or when on limited power.
Some Dometics have a 3-way design. AC, DC or propane. My NDR1292 is only a 2-way. Either AC or propane. I suppose you could use your inverter provided your house batteries are sufficient and the inverter is a pure sine wave. Electronic controls normally do not like modified sine wave power and I avoid even trying to use such.
The NDR1292 like most has an automatic cutoff in propane mode and if the flame goes out the thermocouple that is in the flame's path will cause the selenoid valve to close the propane supply. Like all equipment, there is scheduled maintenance that needs to be performed to keep everything operating as they should. Like our own bodies, age is the only thing we have no control over.

Jim Hughes

2000 Allure #30511

Re: Dometic NDR 1292 Failed Cooling Unit

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 83137
Jim - On the Norcold 1200 LRIM there is no thermocouple. The presence of a flame is sensed through some sort of resistance measurement taken from the igniter to ground. This is a fundamentally different system than the traditional thermocouple systems like those found on residential gas heating systems. Some may remember the old BASO units.
Also battery condition isn't an issue for running the frig off an invertor while travelling as the alternator (mine is 165 amps) can easily cover the 16-40 amp additional DC load. I continue to struggle with the aging process without much progress or success.

At 08:13 AM 10/10/2012, you wrote:

Re: Dometic NDR 1292 Failed Cooling Unit

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 83138
John,

As Rich and others say we have all run our propane system on the road with no problems. If it were to blow out the thermocouple will sense no flame and shut off the propane.
However, to save propane I rewired my electric box to allow the Norcold to get power from the Inverter side of the box (modified sign wave inverter). see link below...
http://autos.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/Country-Coach-Owners/message/74463
So now I can run my Norcold with the inverter while on the road but I need to remember to switch it to propane if I drycamp.

Re: Dometic NDR 1292 Failed Cooling Unit

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 83139
Sorry I didn't sign..

John

05 Inspire #51399

Re: Dometic NDR 1292 Failed Cooling Unit

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 83143
Those thinking of doing something with their Norcold or Dometic refrigerators owe it to yourself to at least consider a residential fridge. I've finally put my experience with this conversion on the web for others to have a little more info on this subject. You can find it here;
http://www.moenracing.com/samsung/
I'd be happy to answer any questions I can.

Barney

07 Inspire 52059

Re: Dometic NDR 1292 Failed Cooling Unit

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 83144
I have a Demetic NDR 1492 with some kind of failure. Our unit got hot enough to cause the inspection access panel in the frige compartment to droop (about 1" x 3"), though the paint did not blister. I was driving with the fridge on propane when this problem happened. We sent pictures of our coach and fridge to Dometic and they were not able to suggest a cause. We have an appointment to get this fridge issue corrected, either through repair or replacement.
I'd be interested to know about potential dangers when running on shore power. When using propane, it seems there would be an open flame that could start a fire if the unit fails. I would assume a damaged absorption coil or vent connection would still be a problem when running on 120 power. What might the fire possibility/concern be when running on shore power?

Paul Onerheim
2004 Magna #6301

Re: Dometic NDR 1292 Failed Cooling Unit

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 83150
Barney - Thanks for publishing this. It's a viable option that we need specific details about. Hopefully more information is to follow.

Samsung 18cu ft atten; Barney

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 83152
Barney, If I had someone install the frig for me, do you have any idea what it would cost? Thanks, Jhon 2003 Allure 30951 Tel 231 313 7582

Re: Dometic NDR 1292 Failed Cooling Unit

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 83158
Scott, if you are correct about this lack of a standard thermocouple in Norcolds, I wonder if this is part of the problems.

Rich 2002 Magna

Re: Dometic NDR 1292 Failed Cooling Unit

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 83160
Barney,

Thanks for the photo's. I have ordered the same unit and would like to leave the drawers in place (05 Inspire) but my DW is height challenged and I'm wondering how difficult it might be to reach the top shelf? Any thoughts?

John

05 Inspire #51399
10 Ford Escape

Re: Dometic NDR 1292 Failed Cooling Unit

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 83161
Hi John,

I had the same concern before making the transition and traded emails with a gal that was 5' tall. She said if she needed something from the top shelf she would ask her husband's help. She had no problems at all with the height. It is a little high though. I have no problems at 5' 11".
We recently took our first trip with the Samsung. It was only five days and we didn't even use the top shelf. You have to remember that the Samsung is about 50% larger than what you have! There is a large shelf in the bottom of each door that will hold a gallon jug with room left over for a couple of smaller things. Then there are two more shelves above this in each door. The extra room is incredible.
I suppose you could carry a small step stool that would help out if necessary.

Hope this helps,

Barney

07 Inspire 52059

Re: Samsung 18cu ft atten; Barney

Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 83162
Hi John,

I couldn't even venture a guess. I have heard some war stories where the installer would not install the customers provided fridge. Only the installers provided fridge at twice the cost! Then, if you need or want to make changes to the cabinetry the costs could go up quickly.
All I can suggest is making some calls and see what you come up with. I would think any business that works on large RV's could do the work for you. It's not that difficult, just a little time consuming.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

Barney

07 Inspire 52059

Re: Dometic NDR 1292 Failed Cooling Unit

Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 83163
May I add our BIG Amen!!

We're a year in and our only complaint is I didn't have the good sense to order the coach out this way.
Now I only worry about the guy next door blowing and/or burning up at night.

Jim 07 Allure #31570

Re: Samsung 18cu ft atten; Barney

Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 83164
You will have several items:

The actual cost of the refer varies by model and shopping skill $1000 to $2000 next is cabinet work $500 to ???

Next is inverter, you may want to change to a pure sine wave model ~$2000 Then if you dry camp a lot you may need more batteries ???

Bob Wexler
SOB

Re: Samsung 18cu ft atten; Barney

Reply #20 –
Yahoo Message Number: 83166
According to Bob and Jim at OMC you don't need a pure sine wave unit for the Samsung. I believe they Charge around $3900 for the installation complete including the Fridge. Its up to you if you need more batteries and a larger inverter-charger. I am choosing to have my Norcold up dated with the Amish unit.
TWI 2004 Intrigue 11731

Re: Dometic NDR 1292 Failed Cooling Unit

Reply #21 –
Yahoo Message Number: 83168
Rich - I know from dismantling mine after the melt down. It's important to distinguish our frig burners from those using a pilot. Residential gas burners (for heating systems) have what is called a 100% safety pilot. In other words a small pilot flame will burn constantly and heat a thermocouple. The BASO unit monitors this flame and shuts down the main gas feed if the pilot goes out. The idea is to prevent gas from entering the living space should the burner come on without the pilot flame. The BASO 100% safety pilot was a completely separate system comprised of a thermocouple, gas solenoid valve and BASO module. As for failures, the thermocouples would rust out after many years of being in the pilot flame. This failure would automatically open the contacts in the BASO and prevent gas flow.
The Norcold control board handles this differently since the pilot has been replaced with an electronic ignition device. Unlike the thermocouple BASO, electronics have been used to manage the burner. And when these electronic components fail what happens. You'll have to forgive me for being a bit distrustful about Norcold's design, quality, safety and reliability. The solenoid gas valve in that refrigerator is another area of concern. What happens if it should stick open and/or leak? This condition could be sensed by the control board but if the valve is stuck open the flame will continue to burn with no way to extinguish it. An error code could be issued but what if you're not home? Who or what puts out the flame?
I'm going to defer to what's been used in residential and commercial gas burner systems for many years with a proven reliability and safety record. If someone is going to change this, I'd like to know why. Me thinks companies like Norcold look for ways to cheapen their products. And the people that do this are out of touch with the reality we as customers eventually deal with. This is just my opinion. I don't recall any issues with the gas burners other than the melted plastic we've heard about. So this whole discussion of gas burner control may be irrelevant. Maybe they are safe, maybe not. Maybe, maybe and maybe. I'm simply saying the controls and safety system don't meet my requirements. When it comes to safety I'm a fussy customer. Real fussy. What I'd like to see is a duplicity of function with gas shut off. A second valve perhaps with an ongoing self test and a gas detector would be a good place to start.
The BASO is just an example of what safety measures had been taken to avoid fires and gas explosions. It's track record is beyond reproach. Many years back (before the 100% safety pilot) accidents happened and this was a call to attention. Someone solved the problem. As a kid our kitchen stove and oven had pilots. Sometimes they would go out and you'd smell the gas. That was a really old stove.

Re: Samsung 18cu ft atten; Barney

Reply #22 –
Yahoo Message Number: 83169
Another question I have. How did you handle the ventilation? The Norcold flange seals the interior of the bus from outside air which circulates in through the side vent and out the top vent. If these vents remain in use, then something needs to be done around the perimeter of the frig to seal it. If the vents are closed off then the frig dumps the condenser heat into the living space. I'm also wondering how really cold weather would affect, if at all, the residential frig. Just curious how residential conversions handle all this.

Re: Samsung 18cu ft atten; Barney

Reply #23 –
Yahoo Message Number: 83172
We had OMC install the 23 cf Samsung in our Intrigue. The fit is very snug. They did close off some of the ventilation from outside, but the fridge does not produce any noticeable heat in the coachl We have used the coach in cold weather and did not have any problems.

S. Brandt, '06 Intrigue, 11964

Re: Dometic NDR 1292 Failed Cooling Unit

Reply #24 –
Yahoo Message Number: 83175
Our Samsung 197 presented the same problem of being installed 14" above the floor .
The solution was a folding 2 step stool that we purchased from Camping World.
It stores neatly between the toilet and wall when not in use and is really needed only

to reach the top shelf by my DW.

Charlie

08 Inspire 53093