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Hard starting, Fuel Shut-Off Solenoid failure?

Yahoo Message Number: 84286
My 8.3L Cummins always started within one or two seconds of cranking time. However, toward the end of my last tour it began to take longer with each start up. I was thinking that it may be clogged fuel filters as they have not been changed in a while. But a tech advised that on this engine often this symptom is caused by a failing Fuel Shut-Off Solenoid.
He said you can see whether it is operating or not by having someone crank the key while you observe the solenoid action (or inaction) I have no idea even where it is located on the engine.
He quoted about $360 for the part including a new bracket that would be required, plus about two hours of labor at $105 per hour. Is this about right?
I always thought that a solenoid would be either a GO or NO-GO item. Do these solenoids fail gradually?
Has anyone done this DIY on an engine like mine? How hard is it? Special tools required? I am an OK "shade tree mechanic" but, I am just trying to decide if I'm going to regret it if I decide to tackle this myself?

Should I try replacing the fuel filters first? Something else?

Daron Hairabedian, 98 Allure 30226 Cummins 6CTA 325HP

Re: Hard starting, Fuel Shut-Off Solenoid failure?

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 84291
I went through that exact problem last spring on my way to Washington state. Coach had been hard starting for some time. Just like you my engine always started quickly and then slowly started taking more and more time to start. I stopped in St George, UT shutdown to get my space paperwork, the coach would not start. I waited about 20 minutes, and it finally started. Next morning it started OK. I called Cummins in Salt Lake City about changing the Start Soleniod, they could do it.
The short story is that fixed the problem and the coach now starts great. Cummins charged me .0.7 hours labor.

Jack 1997 Allure30076 325hp

Re: Hard starting, Fuel Shut-Off Solenoid failure?

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 84293
Jack,

Thanks for your quick response. Wow! Seven tenths of an hour is way better than my tech's quote.
But, I am a little confused. Did they replace the starter solenoid or the fuel shut off solenoid? What was approximate total cost?
Daron

Re: Hard starting, Fuel Shut-Off Solenoid failure?

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 84302
The fuel shutoff Soleniod. It's a common problem on the older coaches. I think the part and labor was about 350.00, but I would have to look up the invoice. There was a new improved Soleniod. I found there are some aftermarket soleniods out there, but can't remember where I found them. Google search might help.
I think you could change it yourself. Looking from the back, it's on the right about halfway up the engine.
Good luck
Jack 30076

Re: Hard starting, Fuel Shut-Off Solenoid failure?

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 84319
I am no expert, but I have had hands on experience as I have had to tighten the electrical connector on the bracket of my C8.3L shut down solenoid. It was causing intermittent no start situations due to loss of the bolt.
I suspect the bracket and other kit stuff is already installed on my rig, so I would try to learn from my manual or Cummins what the model number of the replacement solenoid is.
Then, I would shop EBAY motors for a replacement. There are some that look like my shutdown solenoid ranging from $35 to $180.
I suspect the linkage and the electrical connector are the key items to consider once the style of mount bracket is matched.

Dean

95 Magna 5280

Re: Hard starting, Fuel Shut-Off Solenoid failure?

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 84331
My coach had a similar problem last year. The engine had to crank for several seconds before starting when normally it would start after just a few cranks. Turned out my fuel lift pump was leaking. Guess it's purpose is basically to pump the fuel at start up so that is why it did not affect the engine performance while traveling down the road. Just something else to consider for diagnosis unless the tech is absolutely positive it is the fuel shut-off solenoid. Best of luck to you!

Steve

00 Intrigue #11168

Re: Hard starting, Fuel Shut-Off Solenoid failure?

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 84334
The solenoid location described here sounds like the start solenoid. Isn't the fuel shut off solenoid connected to a fuel line somewhere?

Larry, 03 Allure 30856

Re: Hard starting, Fuel Shut-Off Solenoid failure?

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 84336
Hi Larry,

No, the fuel shutoff solenoid it located midway on the engine on the right side looking from the back of the coach. It may be different on an electronic engine, but on the mechanical engines that is the location and it is connected to the fuel line just prior to the Injection pump. I have a picture somewhere.

Jack Allure 30076

Re: Hard starting, Fuel Shut-Off Solenoid failure?

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 84339
Daron,

Here is the part number on my Cummins Invoice last May. "P/N 4089574 Kit, Fuel Solenoid" it cost $371.75 and $55.00 labor to change it.
Hope this helps
Jack Allure 30076

Re: Hard starting, Fuel Shut-Off Solenoid failure?

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 84373
Jack, Larry, Dean,

Thanks for all the excellent advice! For those who are interested, here is what I have learned so far: I went online to E bay Motors and found a plethora of fuel shut off solenoids available from $29 for aftermarket to $369 for genuine Cummins. What an amazing price spread. Cummins West verified that the Cummins part No. 4089574 that Jack mentioned is correct for my engine. It has vertical actuation against a bell crank (pivot). The aftermarket parts are available in several configurations. Bolt spacing of 2 1/2 " or 3" ctr to ctr; three round pin electrical connector or three flat pin connector; square rod end or "Heim" joint; with or without mounting bracket, bell crank and related fasteners. Whew! Now I have to climb in there and determine what I actually have.
Progress report to follow.

Daron 98 Allure 30226

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Larry